What A Mes I found

Thanks Tom for the paperwork. I have been reading and studying it. I did not know I needed seals at the differancial sides where the u joints enter the diff. Thanks. I sure would have had a mess if those were not replaced. Mine are missing at this time too so I would never have known till a huge oil mess from the diff.

Hi Gary--

I think I have you beat by one year. The last time 1509A moved under its own power was September, 1950, when my dad, my brother, a neighbor, and a lot of cussing got it backed into the garage.

The neighbor used his boot to hold the vacuum shift lever in place. My brother guided my dad's driving since there is no visibility through a sedan's rear window. The cussing came from the fact that the reverse gear had virtually no teeth on it. My contribution was to scream and cry in my play pen!

--Tom

Hi Tim,

THANK YOU for the drawings and info, delivered by the good services of the USPS.

What a treasure trove! Since 1509A's drive train will be assembled in the next month or so, this is timely AND essential information.

Thank you Again!

--Tom

Thank you so much Tim. I'm looking forwards t reading all the prints. I really enjoy print reading because I see whats going on. My good wifey will be upset because I'm not paying attension to here but she will enjoy the ride when I'm done too. Way back in 1976 I rewired the car. Rebuilt the brakes and had Stan rebuild my water pump. I did not have a way to shift the car. My car came with a manual shift lever modified to the steering colum. It was missing some parts. Supposedly if I had all the parts I would only have 3 forward gears and reverse. I set up a 1 gallon can on the inner front fender. Firrd up the engine after I showed the wifey how to pull the oem shift lever into first gear manually. She did well. Got in and we drove around the block. No registration or license on the car or any exhaust past the down pipes. All the shocks were not connected either. It was the first time since 1951 that the car was on the road. I drove it into the garage and started restoration. One child later and here I am working on it again. I let it sit for 35 years with not touching it. Just buying parts. Its so but its moving forward now. Thanks again..

Hi,

Thank you, Tim. I look forward to seeing the drawings and info.

What a great club! Comes from having great people!

--Tom

Hi Gary and Tom: I sent both of you six pages of hand draweds, Stan's drawing, and my notes...via regular mail. Sounds like a lot, but it's really not much. I hope these will provide some guidance for you.
Inner C/V joint: both of mine were in good shape; as you know, they are riveted together. A thorough cleaning in the wash tank, followed by soap and water; let dry. The filling of the cavity with grease was a two person job; one holding each shaft, twisting and turning, while the other used the gun to fill every possible gap. You will use most of a tube. Your silver cad plated C/V cover and the associated screws should be ready beforehand. Thoroughly clean out every screw hole; notice that most of these holes go directly into the transmission oil area. This could be a good source of leaks from the transmission side, so use gasket sealer on those screws. Once the inner C/Vs are in place, let them sit idle for a day or so to allow the gasket sealer to set.
Outer C/V joint: They come apart. You may have large ball bearings bouncing around the floor! Again, thoroughly clean in the wash tank, then soap and water. Let dry. I found two of the ten balls had pits in them, so I replaced with new. We found that these outer shafts etc. were made of some serious hard metal. Little if any wear was found. On the short shaft, remember to remove the screw that closes up the refill area. Once you have completed this whole operation properly, you may never have to mess with the C/V joints again! And never refill again! Paint anything that needs it,,,now. When you are ready to place the outer C/Vs, again a two person operation. The outer casing is held in place by the king pin assembly, so one holds the joint and the other maneuvers the casing and the king pins into position.
There is an overflow tank on top of the top kingpin. It does serve a purpose. As the grease heats up, and pressure builds, and the shafts are bouncing up and down on the road, any excess needs a place to go, and not by blowing out a seal. I found that after 12,000 miles, my overflow tanks were about one third full. Again, thoroughly empty and clean.
While you're working in front of the car, what better time to clean, paint, and adjust all the steering mechanisms. Make sure all ball joints, cups, and springs are adjusted. Remember a little play in front means a lot of play up at the steering wheel.
We're lucky here in Denver to have three excellent bearing supply stores. We did have to wait 48 hours for one seal. I even took parts over to them so they could see what we were talking about, and to take measurements, make suggestions, etc. I also had access to a lift. The entire front end sheet metal was off, so we had plenty of room to work, and at the right height.
I learned (the second time around) that the designers back in '36 weren't all that bad considering what they had to work with. Take your time and do it right the first time...then you don't have to come back and redo it.
I hope this helps. Any constructive comments appreciated.
Cordially, Tim.

Will do, Tom.

Hi Tim,

Please CC me on any specs and drawings that you may be sending.

Thanks,

--Tom

Thanks Tim. I probably will be contacting you to ask questions.

Hi Gary: I just completed a re-do of the drive train. I had run the car for some eighteen years after a very amateurish restoration. My mechanic friend would not allow it in his shop until he had steam cleaned the entire front end. The hood and fenders had been removed. And he steam cleaned it again after we pulled the engine and trans. Lots of grease and oil leaks after all those years.
We replaced all the seals and gaskets with modern ones. We disconnected the joints and found a few balls either slightly cracked or pitted. Replaced with NOS ones I had. The manual says to fill each joint with one pound, or about one tube of grease. We used a marine application grease, but any heavy duty should work. One tube certainly fills the whole area. Make sure the brass part fits snugly on the shaft as that protects the seal.
I can look in my notes as to what seals etc. we have used. Any screw or bolt that goes into oil should be coated with gasket seal to prevent leaks. I am pleased to say there are no leaks...so far.
We had to use "speedy sleeve" on the worn parts of the shaft in order to have a good seal.
Would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Use my email.
CORDially, Tim.

Hi,

I sent you a PM.

--Tom

Tom I have a fairly nice drawing that JK Howell sent me showing the inner and outer u joints with the seals and the bearings. Its a little dark but I will try to "clean it up" and send you a copy. It really helped me getting mine apart.
When I finally took apart my outer u joint I found the original leather seals on everything. I have 2 original leather seals for the outer bells too and somehwere I have a tall square can of Cord Univeral Joint oil. I think thw writing on it was green but its been many years since I have seen it. This was the very heavy stuff. When I opened up the outer u joint I found some very heavy oil like mess thats very slow to drip or move. I have not tried removing it yet. Just set the housing so it will drip out on its own. Probably going to warm up some diesel fuel to rid the housings of this stuff. Might do the same for the u joints with the balls too. I really don't want to remove the balls but I will if I have to.

The wheel bearing (double row ball) should be a press fit as should be the brake drum on the ID. In doing so the wheel vibration is substantially reduced at high speed and steering improves.

Hi,

This spring and summer I will be re-assembling all this stuff for 1509A. It's going to be a seat-of-the-pants experience likely to be marked with oil and grease leaks and drips until I get it right. The last time these parts were in an assembled status was in 1950.

Does anyone have an exploded diagram of the front axle/bearing/hub assembly that I could follow?

Thanks,

--Tom

Well I'm continuing to remove the outer u joint bearings and seals. Seems some time in the past the outer housing had an issue with the seal so someone wrapped shim stock in the housing that the seal rests in. Thats the large nut that keeps the double bearing in the housing. I fought that thing all the way out too. Heating to about 250 degrees and cooling with Aerokroil. Then tapping on the sides with a 2 lb ball peen hammer and a fender dolly backing it up for the shock to transmit thru the housing. Once out I noticed the bearing was not pressed in. Both sides are the same. I repaired the threads by using some 600 grit lapping compound on the nut to housing threads. They cleaned up nicely too. I figured out how to remove the bottom pivot race. I used a long punch about the same size as the bearing race. Came right out. Now the top one looks a little ruff to remove. Not much to grab it by. So thats where I am now. Only question is the bearing. Is that a press fit or just a slide it in and tighten the huge nut down on it. thanks for any help..