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Shifting problem
- dougklink
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27 Aug 2010 13:17 #17813
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic shifting problem
Removed the shifting mechanism, found some interesting things. The dogbone is on correctly, according to the above photo and a discussion with Henry Portz. The dogbone is a little loose on the shaft however. The gasket was .011 thick. So no smoking gun there. We did try slowly moving the cross shaft to the right and pushing back by hand with the engine running and the pullback cylinder disconnected and you can feel the dogbone get clear of the 2-3 shift rail as it reaches it's normal position in fourth. So still puzzled.
The big find was that there was no lube in the casting at the front of the mainshaft like there should be. I'll be taking off the lube line fitting at the oil pump today to see if I have a clogged line or filter. It appeared that there had been no lube inside the mainshaft for many years.
The big find was that there was no lube in the casting at the front of the mainshaft like there should be. I'll be taking off the lube line fitting at the oil pump today to see if I have a clogged line or filter. It appeared that there had been no lube inside the mainshaft for many years.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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26 Aug 2010 11:53 #17811
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
Will remove shift unit and check gasket thickness and alignment today.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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26 Aug 2010 11:50 #17810
by Roads2run
Roads2run
Replied by Roads2run on topic Shifting Problem
Doug, one suggestion - check the thickness of the gasket between the front of the transmission and the shift housing. If your gasket is too thick, it can move the pivot point of the "dog bone" or "shift arm" inside the housing, too far forward, and prevent the end of the lever from engaging the shift rod. If this is happening, the end of the dog bone can hit the shift rod instead of engaging the cutout in the end of the shift rod. That may be why, as you say, it is "hitting something hard and stopping."
The factory drawing specifies a very thin gasket under the shift housing. This is important as the pivot for the dog bone needs to be centered so both the upper and lower ends can engage all of the transmission shift rods. Even though you are able to shift into some gears, the individual clearances with your transmission might not allow all gears to be engaged. Good luck. Tom Hartz, Kokomo, IN
The factory drawing specifies a very thin gasket under the shift housing. This is important as the pivot for the dog bone needs to be centered so both the upper and lower ends can engage all of the transmission shift rods. Even though you are able to shift into some gears, the individual clearances with your transmission might not allow all gears to be engaged. Good luck. Tom Hartz, Kokomo, IN
Roads2run
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26 Aug 2010 00:52 #17808
by oldbanger71
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
812 310 121 S
Replied by oldbanger71 on topic Shifting problem
Doug ,
i was able to unbolt the 6 screws and the shifthousing came off, when gearbox is sitting in the car.
Mark the screws where they came from and reinstall same way, if my memory serves me right, they aren't all the same length !
In pic one you see it from inside. make shure to not damage the gasket's.
the round recesses are to hold the upper bearing and springwasher aginst the gearboxhousing.
pic 2 is the gearboxhousing where the shifthousing is attached.
A guess is: that the inside shiftfinger got loose or is not propperley set up on the shiftshaft, also did you check the outside shift-finger on shaft rocking fore and aft / sideways and eyelet to vacuum-cylinder for oval ware, same for clevis and pin ?
Do you know if surface was filed by hand beeing not straight or has it been
reground by professinal ? has it the right thickness of gasket ?
Just a thought after i examined my gearbox-oil pump; reground by hand guided by an idiot....... result : broken and soldred housing-lug, refaced untrue and screwed back on. result speedogear set chewed up aso.
but that's an other story.
Hope this helps.
i was able to unbolt the 6 screws and the shifthousing came off, when gearbox is sitting in the car.
Mark the screws where they came from and reinstall same way, if my memory serves me right, they aren't all the same length !
In pic one you see it from inside. make shure to not damage the gasket's.
the round recesses are to hold the upper bearing and springwasher aginst the gearboxhousing.
pic 2 is the gearboxhousing where the shifthousing is attached.
A guess is: that the inside shiftfinger got loose or is not propperley set up on the shiftshaft, also did you check the outside shift-finger on shaft rocking fore and aft / sideways and eyelet to vacuum-cylinder for oval ware, same for clevis and pin ?
Do you know if surface was filed by hand beeing not straight or has it been
reground by professinal ? has it the right thickness of gasket ?
Just a thought after i examined my gearbox-oil pump; reground by hand guided by an idiot....... result : broken and soldred housing-lug, refaced untrue and screwed back on. result speedogear set chewed up aso.
but that's an other story.
Hope this helps.
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
812 310 121 S
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26 Aug 2010 00:35 #17807
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting
Actually, as I kneel before the car, the crosshaft gets within about 3/16" of the vacuum cylinder casting, it does not go all the way over. It is hitting something hard and stopping. Can I remove the cross shaft assy by removing the 6 cap screws on the front? Looks like I may have a clearance issue with the switches unless I can slide it towards the driver's side once the cap screws are out?
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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25 Aug 2010 21:33 #17804
by hportz
www.portzcordz.com (photos)
Replied by hportz on topic Shifting problem
Doug, There should be a space to the right of the shift arm when it is all the way to the right side. You have to take the cross shift housing off to see if the dog bone is installed correctly. Henry
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25 Aug 2010 12:13 #17800
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
Henry,
Thank you for your thoughts. I have not taken the top off to check it out yet as we are having to upgrade our trailer springs and axles this week, but that's another story!
The push to get it into gear is straight back. Palm of hand pushing on clevis with no side motion required. I believe it is tight to the right against the bushing. I will recheck today and be sure that is the case.
It is possible that the dog bone is not positioned correctly as the transmission has been opened up at some point out of the car and repainted red. It also had a filter added tapped into the oil pump outlet in front and running around the drivers side of the car to the rear.
Thank you for your thoughts. I have not taken the top off to check it out yet as we are having to upgrade our trailer springs and axles this week, but that's another story!
The push to get it into gear is straight back. Palm of hand pushing on clevis with no side motion required. I believe it is tight to the right against the bushing. I will recheck today and be sure that is the case.
It is possible that the dog bone is not positioned correctly as the transmission has been opened up at some point out of the car and repainted red. It also had a filter added tapped into the oil pump outlet in front and running around the drivers side of the car to the rear.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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25 Aug 2010 07:34 #17799
by hportz
www.portzcordz.com (photos)
Replied by hportz on topic Forth gear
Doug, Jim & Josh, Every thing that you all are saying suggests to me that for some reason the shift lever is not moving far enough to the right for some mechanical reason. That the dog bone inside the shift housing is not quite lining up with the fourth shift rail to allow it to move into gear ? Doug says that with a slight push it will go into gear, is that push toward the right? Is there a space between the shift lever & the bronze bushing for the cross shaft when all the way to the right? Is the dog bone installed on the shaft correctly allowing it to move to the right far enough (the long end faces to the left )? Is the leather cross shift diaphragm installed correctly? Have fun in Auburn! Henry
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25 Aug 2010 01:18 #17797
by Josh Malks
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Replied by Josh Malks on topic Shifting problem
As Dr Flywheel (Don Mates in real life) also pointed out once, there are no Cord "experts". Only Cord "scholars".
Josh B. Malks
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25 Aug 2010 01:04 #17796
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Replied by on topic Shifting problem
Somewhere I have a photo of Dr. Flywheel teaching Transmission 101 class being held around 11 pm on 9th street in front of the hotel with tranmission gears spread out over the hood of my Cord.
It's the only time I can remember a large crowd gathered around the front end of a Cord when the hood was down!
Yes it is a great club because we have some great people in it that are very willing to share the knowledge they've learned on these we call Cords. And as Josh kind of pointed out a few posts back...these Cords keep teaching us - in the way of new problems.
I hope to see everyone in Auburn!
It's the only time I can remember a large crowd gathered around the front end of a Cord when the hood was down!
Yes it is a great club because we have some great people in it that are very willing to share the knowledge they've learned on these we call Cords. And as Josh kind of pointed out a few posts back...these Cords keep teaching us - in the way of new problems.
I hope to see everyone in Auburn!
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25 Aug 2010 00:28 #17794
by oldbanger71
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
812 310 121 S
Replied by oldbanger71 on topic Shifting problem
what a shame that i will not be there to see that epic ( nog gears, no wires no wheels and everything in boxes, can your pitcrew transform my Cord into a car in no time?, well 12 Month is fine ! ).<!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="
" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
What a grate Club, manny other make-clubs lack this support !!!!
" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->What a grate Club, manny other make-clubs lack this support !!!!
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
812 310 121 S
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24 Aug 2010 20:42 #17792
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Replied by on topic Shifting problem
Hi Doug,
I don't beleive you have a problem with the green-red wire, if you did you would have problems in other gears as well as 4th.
At this point get the car to Auburn and we'll get the 9th street pit crew to work on it. There is always plenty of help there and yours won't be the first car that has been torn apart on the street and gotten running again.
If you have trouble finding the "pit crew" just find Bob McEwan (he's always around down there) and have him teach you how to do the "McEwan Shuffle" I can guarantee the pit crew will be assembled and the Cord fixed in record time.
I look forward to meeting you in Auburn.
Jim
I don't beleive you have a problem with the green-red wire, if you did you would have problems in other gears as well as 4th.
At this point get the car to Auburn and we'll get the 9th street pit crew to work on it. There is always plenty of help there and yours won't be the first car that has been torn apart on the street and gotten running again.
If you have trouble finding the "pit crew" just find Bob McEwan (he's always around down there) and have him teach you how to do the "McEwan Shuffle" I can guarantee the pit crew will be assembled and the Cord fixed in record time.
I look forward to meeting you in Auburn.
Jim
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24 Aug 2010 14:56 #17788
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
Will do! I should be able to putt around just fine. It'll make 45 in third, which should still get me to the airport for the Duesenberg races. I still wonder if it'll start working with the added vacuum at lower altitude.
Looking foward to meeting many of you in person!
Thanks again.
Looking foward to meeting many of you in person!
Thanks again.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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24 Aug 2010 13:58 #17787
by Josh Malks
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Replied by Josh Malks on topic Shifting problem
Well, all I can say is bring it to Auburn in third. There are always folks there who love nothing better than to tinker with someone else's Cord.
Good luck!
Good luck!
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24 Aug 2010 13:21 #17786
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
Thanks Josh.
That's exactly what I have been doing, as I have a problem somewhere in the "restored:-)" wiring. Putting a vacuum gauge on the hose from the solenoid to the rear of the vacuum cylinder shows engine vacuum and it does try to move back but just can't seem to pull it in like it does on the other gears. The movement to the right is good and strong and the switch is doing the right thing, but there is a break somewhere in the grn/red wire circuit.
It's hard to tell if R and 2 are more difficult to engage than 4 but I can say that with the engine off (and with the front wheels always on stands) we are not able to move the lever into 4th, even while turning the front wheels by hand. It's also hard to do that for 2. With the engine running and the brown wire jumped to 6V, it does not take much of a push of the hand to get it to go into 4 though.
We have set it up so we can jump the brown wire while driving, and that does not work either.
Signed,
Still shiftless......
That's exactly what I have been doing, as I have a problem somewhere in the "restored:-)" wiring. Putting a vacuum gauge on the hose from the solenoid to the rear of the vacuum cylinder shows engine vacuum and it does try to move back but just can't seem to pull it in like it does on the other gears. The movement to the right is good and strong and the switch is doing the right thing, but there is a break somewhere in the grn/red wire circuit.
It's hard to tell if R and 2 are more difficult to engage than 4 but I can say that with the engine off (and with the front wheels always on stands) we are not able to move the lever into 4th, even while turning the front wheels by hand. It's also hard to do that for 2. With the engine running and the brown wire jumped to 6V, it does not take much of a push of the hand to get it to go into 4 though.
We have set it up so we can jump the brown wire while driving, and that does not work either.
Signed,
Still shiftless......
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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24 Aug 2010 04:48 #17784
by Josh Malks
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Replied by Josh Malks on topic Shifting problem
Doug, hate to leave you still not shifting.
It's usually safest to play with the gearshift with the car up on jack stands so the front wheels clear the floor. (I'm sure you're doing that, but it makes me feel better to mention it.)
If you put the shift lever in 4th and depress the clutch then hold it down with your clutch stick -- does the lever stay all the way over in the 4th gear rail position but in neutral front to rear?
If so, what happens if you apply 6 volts from a separate jumper (powered from the horn relay supply, for example) directly to one of the brown wire terminals on top of the solenoid box?
It's usually safest to play with the gearshift with the car up on jack stands so the front wheels clear the floor. (I'm sure you're doing that, but it makes me feel better to mention it.)
If you put the shift lever in 4th and depress the clutch then hold it down with your clutch stick -- does the lever stay all the way over in the 4th gear rail position but in neutral front to rear?
If so, what happens if you apply 6 volts from a separate jumper (powered from the horn relay supply, for example) directly to one of the brown wire terminals on top of the solenoid box?
Josh B. Malks
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24 Aug 2010 03:26 #17782
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem finale
Well, I think I've tried about everything. First, we checked the engine vacuum. Did I mention I live at 7800' altitude? And the engine is tired?
Vacuum was 10 inches at idle, going up to 14 inches when blipping the throttle. Checked it at the pull back cylinder inlet, same thing. It's enough to pull into the other gears though.
Put heavy grease on cross switch shaft, no leaks apparent. Added a bit of oil to the pull cylinder, and disconnected and checked it by putting a finger over the inlet, it held perfectly. Lubed all clevises and other movement points. Nada. Tried double clutching, same result.
So I'll be a happy 3rd gear cruiser, wave as you pass me going to the airport for the Duesy drags. Maybe the increase in vacuum at near sea level will bail me out!
Anyway, it's been fun trying everything. Getting to know the car better all the time, which is nice. Thanks for all your help, and please send along any other ideas.
Vacuum was 10 inches at idle, going up to 14 inches when blipping the throttle. Checked it at the pull back cylinder inlet, same thing. It's enough to pull into the other gears though.
Put heavy grease on cross switch shaft, no leaks apparent. Added a bit of oil to the pull cylinder, and disconnected and checked it by putting a finger over the inlet, it held perfectly. Lubed all clevises and other movement points. Nada. Tried double clutching, same result.
So I'll be a happy 3rd gear cruiser, wave as you pass me going to the airport for the Duesy drags. Maybe the increase in vacuum at near sea level will bail me out!
Anyway, it's been fun trying everything. Getting to know the car better all the time, which is nice. Thanks for all your help, and please send along any other ideas.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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23 Aug 2010 13:31 #17769
by Tom_Parkinson
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Shifting problem
Hi,
I have SO much to look forward to when and if I ever get this car running !!! <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->
--Tom
I have SO much to look forward to when and if I ever get this car running !!! <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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23 Aug 2010 02:45 #17763
by Josh Malks
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Replied by Josh Malks on topic Shifting problem
Before leaving the subject, I have found that double-clutching makes nearly every shift silent. As Doug says, it helps out the primitive synchros.
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23 Aug 2010 02:26 #17761
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
Thank you Jim and Bill, I will try your suggestions this week! The cylinder shaft seal leak sounds intriguing. I do double clutch sometimes just to help out my synchros, but I don't think I've tried it going into 4th.
I agree, Josh, which makes me want to find a solution even more!
I agree, Josh, which makes me want to find a solution even more!
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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23 Aug 2010 01:52 #17758
by Josh Malks
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Replied by Josh Malks on topic Shifting problem
Don't know why I have to keep reminding of the single answer to all these Forum questions --- because it's a CORD!
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23 Aug 2010 01:02 #17757
by Bill McLaughlin
Replied by Bill McLaughlin on topic Shifting problem
Doug:
For what it's worth, try double clutching (pumping clutch in and out twice) going into 4th. Have no idea why but, I have to double clutch going into 4th. Single clutch is fine for all other gears but if I single clutch going into 4th, I end up in neutral.
Bill McLaughlin
37 Westchester
For what it's worth, try double clutching (pumping clutch in and out twice) going into 4th. Have no idea why but, I have to double clutch going into 4th. Single clutch is fine for all other gears but if I single clutch going into 4th, I end up in neutral.
Bill McLaughlin
37 Westchester
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22 Aug 2010 22:03 #17754
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Hi Doug,
It sounds like you're getting close on the trouble shooting. To answer your question, all the shifting equipment (solenoids, shift cylinder, switches, etc.) are the same for standard and supercharged cars. For vacuum needed to shift I never figured that out and it depends on the release pressure on the syncronizers. If the release pressure is correct it is very difficult to shift the trans into 2, 3 or 4 using the little lever on the cross shifter.
Since the cross shifter is going over to the right and starting to pull back into 4 then goes in with a little help from your hand my guess is you have a vacuum problem. Most likely in one of two places - first would be in the set-up pulling hte lever back into gear. Since you aren't having any problems going into R or 2 my guess this isn't the problem,
The other are would be in pulling the lever over to the right. Check the hoses and filltings on the line that pulld the cross shift to the right. The other area to look is the shaft behind the cross shift switch. if the bushing is worn you may be loosing vacuum there. Try putting some heavy greas on the shaft and try shifting (it's a temporary fix to see if that is the problem).
Jim
It sounds like you're getting close on the trouble shooting. To answer your question, all the shifting equipment (solenoids, shift cylinder, switches, etc.) are the same for standard and supercharged cars. For vacuum needed to shift I never figured that out and it depends on the release pressure on the syncronizers. If the release pressure is correct it is very difficult to shift the trans into 2, 3 or 4 using the little lever on the cross shifter.
Since the cross shifter is going over to the right and starting to pull back into 4 then goes in with a little help from your hand my guess is you have a vacuum problem. Most likely in one of two places - first would be in the set-up pulling hte lever back into gear. Since you aren't having any problems going into R or 2 my guess this isn't the problem,
The other are would be in pulling the lever over to the right. Check the hoses and filltings on the line that pulld the cross shift to the right. The other area to look is the shaft behind the cross shift switch. if the bushing is worn you may be loosing vacuum there. Try putting some heavy greas on the shaft and try shifting (it's a temporary fix to see if that is the problem).
Jim
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22 Aug 2010 18:35 #17751
by oldbanger71
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
812 310 121 S
Replied by oldbanger71 on topic Shifting problem
I beleve that the shiftcylinders are all the same for standard and SC.
Tom Georgeson has worked out how surprisinley little vacuum-force is needet for schifting, when he fitted an vacuum-restrictor-valve.
The result was that it shifted rather nicley without slamming into gears, which is safing the gearbox for an other years of driving.
I beleve , basic is, that the vacuum-line is not leaking and of correct dimension.
Tom Georgeson has worked out how surprisinley little vacuum-force is needet for schifting, when he fitted an vacuum-restrictor-valve.
The result was that it shifted rather nicley without slamming into gears, which is safing the gearbox for an other years of driving.
I beleve , basic is, that the vacuum-line is not leaking and of correct dimension.
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
812 310 121 S
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22 Aug 2010 17:39 #17746
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
I should mention that the supercharger has no internal parts, so it is normally aspirated. The motor is tired and the carb is not stock. I'm going to take a vacuum reading later, did they have different shift cylinders for s/c versus normally aspirated cars? Is there a minimum vacuum reading required to shift reliably? The car seems to shift well with no hesitation in the other gears.
Thanks to all for the suggestions.
Thanks to all for the suggestions.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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22 Aug 2010 17:06 #17745
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
Latest tests: put car on stands with cover off tranny. Measured voltage at cross slide switch, green/red is 6v in neutral, then 0 as I slide cross shaft manually, then 6v again in 4th. Switch is ok. Ran jumper from brown at solenoids to 6v, connecting it after servo moves cross shaft into position. Lever tries to pull back but stops. If I push it back with my hand it goes into 4th gear and stays when clutch pedal is raised.
Obviously I have a wiring issue but I could wire the jumper to a cockpit pushbuttin until we restore the car this winter. Could the servo be bad, it works fine in the other 2 gears? Could the solenoid be marginal? It doesn't take much hand pressure to move the lever into 4 once the jumper is energized.
Obviously I have a wiring issue but I could wire the jumper to a cockpit pushbuttin until we restore the car this winter. Could the servo be bad, it works fine in the other 2 gears? Could the solenoid be marginal? It doesn't take much hand pressure to move the lever into 4 once the jumper is energized.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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22 Aug 2010 14:33 #17744
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
I give up, I meant 12V in the last one. Bad joke. OK, I'll leave the comedy to Leno...
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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22 Aug 2010 14:29 #17743
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
Oops, I see I screwed up my post earlier. The wires were both showing 6V, which puzzled me because I thought the green/red wire should be cold until the cross shaft moves right.
If they were 6V I'd have a new perpetual motion product to sell!
If they were 6V I'd have a new perpetual motion product to sell!
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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22 Aug 2010 14:27 #17742
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
The car is 6V.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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22 Aug 2010 14:26 #17741
by oldbanger71
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
812 310 121 S
Replied by oldbanger71 on topic Shifting problem
How long do you have your car and did you look at the battery ?
Maybe previous owners had it converted to 12 V ? Look for a 6 to 12 Volt converter somewhere in the wiring, should be easy to find since they are quite large.
Maybe previous owners had it converted to 12 V ? Look for a 6 to 12 Volt converter somewhere in the wiring, should be easy to find since they are quite large.
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
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22 Aug 2010 14:12 #17738
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
I'll check it again today. The seitch is original I believe, it just has buttons that are connnected by the rotary contactor. One of them had come apart and I had to fix it so I've had it apart and cleaned it.
I checked for voltage on the grn/red and red/grn before and as I recall they were both at 12V when in the neutral position, which puzzled me a bit.
I checked for voltage on the grn/red and red/grn before and as I recall they were both at 12V when in the neutral position, which puzzled me a bit.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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21 Aug 2010 21:39 #17729
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Replied by on topic Shifting problem
Hi Doug,
It sounds like you have an electrical problem. The reason I'm saying it's electrical is you said the shift pulls over to the right then moves reaward and comes back forward repeatedly. If there was a problem in the gearbox the shift would try to move rearward and stop.
I'm taking a guess but I think your problem may be in the cross shift switch. If the problem was in the column switch you would be having problems with reverse and 2. Is your cross shift switch an original or a modern one with the microswitches?
The red-green wire should be bringing the 6V to the cross shift switch. Once the cross shift moves ovber to the right the green-red wire should have 6 volts on it. Try measuring the voltage with an analog (needle type) multimeter - if you are losing the 6V for a fraction of a second you will see it, some digital meters won't show a quick loss.
The green-red wire takes the voltage back up to the switch on the column and the voltage should come back down on the brown wire to pick up the solenoid to pull it back into 4th.
Let us know how you make out.
Jim
It sounds like you have an electrical problem. The reason I'm saying it's electrical is you said the shift pulls over to the right then moves reaward and comes back forward repeatedly. If there was a problem in the gearbox the shift would try to move rearward and stop.
I'm taking a guess but I think your problem may be in the cross shift switch. If the problem was in the column switch you would be having problems with reverse and 2. Is your cross shift switch an original or a modern one with the microswitches?
The red-green wire should be bringing the 6V to the cross shift switch. Once the cross shift moves ovber to the right the green-red wire should have 6 volts on it. Try measuring the voltage with an analog (needle type) multimeter - if you are losing the 6V for a fraction of a second you will see it, some digital meters won't show a quick loss.
The green-red wire takes the voltage back up to the switch on the column and the voltage should come back down on the brown wire to pick up the solenoid to pull it back into 4th.
Let us know how you make out.
Jim
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21 Aug 2010 12:41 #17724
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Replied by dougklink on topic Shifting problem
I have the brown, hard bound book and the spiral bound book with the maintenance bulletins and parts list. They have the list of various situations and what to check for each one.
After putting the car on jack stands yesterday and having someone shift while I watched the actuator, I'm thinking it is an internal problem. The shifter slides over to the right, then pulls rearward a little and comes back forward repeatedly, like it is trying to go into gear but cannot.
Since it pulls back into R and 2 fine, I'm assuming that the neutral switch is adjusted properly.
After putting the car on jack stands yesterday and having someone shift while I watched the actuator, I'm thinking it is an internal problem. The shifter slides over to the right, then pulls rearward a little and comes back forward repeatedly, like it is trying to go into gear but cannot.
Since it pulls back into R and 2 fine, I'm assuming that the neutral switch is adjusted properly.
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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20 Aug 2010 14:04 #17715
by Josh Malks
Josh B. Malks
810 2087A
ACD Club Life Member
ACD Newsletter editor
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Replied by Josh Malks on topic Shifting problem
Doug, do you have the original factory trouble-shooting chart?
Josh B. Malks
810 2087A
ACD Club Life Member
ACD Newsletter editor
Past president
www.automaven.com
Check out CORD COMPLETE at www.cordcomplete.com
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20 Aug 2010 03:15 #17706
by dougklink
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
Shifting problem was created by dougklink
4th gear hasn't worked in a long time, maybe since I got the car. So in preparation for Auburn I thought I'd get it working, but I've hit a dead end.
All the other gears work fine. When I shift into fourth the cross slide moves right and there is 6V on the green/red wire and the red/green wire but no voltage on the brown wire at the "pull back" solenoid. I couldn't find a break in the wire so as a test I hooked a jumper up to the brown wire terminal and connected it to 6V after waiting a few seconds after the clutch switch closed. Nothing changed.
I can't manually get it into fourth either, but I also can't get it into 2 or 3 manually, just R or 1.
Next step would seem to be to take the top off the tranny and look for physical problems. Other thoughts before I do that? Did I miss something? I'm using Josh's color coded diagram from his web page for reference.
Another bit of info, the car was rewired by a previous owner with modern plastic insulated wire which seems to be in good shape. I also cleaned the contacts of the connector near the master cylinder.
Thanks
All the other gears work fine. When I shift into fourth the cross slide moves right and there is 6V on the green/red wire and the red/green wire but no voltage on the brown wire at the "pull back" solenoid. I couldn't find a break in the wire so as a test I hooked a jumper up to the brown wire terminal and connected it to 6V after waiting a few seconds after the clutch switch closed. Nothing changed.
I can't manually get it into fourth either, but I also can't get it into 2 or 3 manually, just R or 1.
Next step would seem to be to take the top off the tranny and look for physical problems. Other thoughts before I do that? Did I miss something? I'm using Josh's color coded diagram from his web page for reference.
Another bit of info, the car was rewired by a previous owner with modern plastic insulated wire which seems to be in good shape. I also cleaned the contacts of the connector near the master cylinder.
Thanks
Doug Klink
Estes Park, Colorado
812 S/C Phaeton
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