Cord Values

George,

RM reports that they sold one of the originally supercharged cabriolets last Friday for $484 K. Who knows if the colours, restoration or supercharger explain the hammer price ?

I received an e-mail last week from an auction house in England. A fella brought them an 812 Cord to auction. It had a supercharged engine and outside pipes. He claimed it was the "prototype of the supercharged Custom Beverly", and they wondered about it. Measuring the wheelbase disposed of the "Custom" claim. And a look in what many of you have been kind enough to call "Josh's book" showed that it was indeed a first --- the first bustle-back Beverly. They sent me the numbers, and of course it turned out that the original FB engine had been replaced by a later FC.

The auction house, to their credit, insisted on properly labelling the car. It did not sell at he reserve set by the owner.

Hi,

I have been reading the discussion regarding S/C vs. standard engines. My only thoughts are something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it regardless whether or not it is supercharged or not. S/C certainly adds to any cars value but is not the only thing to consider in establishing the value. The car's provenience probably comes more into play knowing that, i.e., certification, owners history, what awards has it won, shown at Concours de Elegance shows, etc. blah,blah,blah.

Just my two cents for what it is worth.

CORDially,

Al

Bill Hummel wrote: How many people going to auctions REALLY do their homework?

The smart ones!

Isn't Beauty in the Eye of the Beholder?

How many people going to auctions REALLY do their homework?

George, if YOU put together a car with a blower and pipes, the work would be [u:3hyhlsa8]so[/u:3hyhlsa8] nice that I am sure it would command a lot of money at an auction.

I like Joel's advice of making sure the numbers didn't previously show up on Ron or Josh's lists.

If a nice non-supercharged Cabriolet can get $250K like it did last month, then anything George A. makes will have to sell for more.

I am curious if Tom D. has had any luck with his S/C Cabriolet? That is a very pretty car too.

there is no question in my mind that an orginally supercharged FC cord is worth more than a supercharged FB cord. i am sure we all agree on that.

the question put forth was by how much? i think in todays market a very good supercharged cabriolet would be worth $200,000 to $300,000. i know its a wide range, but thats because i think the FC car would bring closer to $300,000 and the FB car would bring closer to $200,000. so i am thinking at least about $50,000 (or 25%) difference on the cabriolet, all other things being equal. this is because (if i recall correctly) there were only about 64 supercharged cabriolets built in 1937. so they are pretty rare. like art, rare means pricey in todays market.

i agree that you might get lucky and sell a converted super charged 36 or 37 to an uninformed buyer. but my experience is that as these prices go up, the people willing to pay them are getting more and more sophisticated. they know pedigree from put together and pay accordingly.

so all these things that were done to these cars in the past, i think as time marches on, the "real" ones will begin to move far ahead of the pack. this will still bring up the value of the others, just not by as much.

this all having been said, in todays world, i personally would never take a non supercharged car and supercharge it. this was done to so many of them, that the survival rate of the non supercharged car is now pretty low itself. one day, they may in fact become rarer than the supercharged car if everyone keeps up with these conversions.

to me, the non super charged cars have better style with that unbroken coffen nose. but then the super charged car has better speed and acceleration. a more muscle car look with those external pipes. there is beauty in both.

naturally, as has been aptly pointed out, on the less expensive models in todays market, the difference in supercharged original vs modified would be less in dollars and maybe in percentage too, as the cars are usually bought more to drive than to show. this too will change over time as prices continue to escalate.

but then again, when you puts down yer money, its yer baby and yuz all gits to do what you want.......

When Beverly came into our family, her factory "entrails" had been surgically removed so my wife and I felt she would be happy remaining thus:

Then Phae was born in '36 also without symmetrical appendages and wanted what her sister lost. We obliged and had the transplant performed.

We love them both and consider both priceless members of the family.

E.L.; You can take the standard claim that it was returned to the factory, and stash some old Connersville Hotel receipts in the glovebox.

Get the story straight. Make sure all your i's and t's are in order and present the fairy tail on your certification paperwork. Verify that there are no entries on Ron Irwins list or Josh's book and throw the dice.
Maybe you too can get a S/C certification status for your present Cord which started life as non supercharged.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was thinking that you were looking for something a lot less obvious. The car in my humble opinion would be worth no more than the price of a standard car plus the added premium parts. The rub would be whether or not it was a collector audience you were attempting to attract who would see it as unoriginal. You could argue that it might even be worth less. Other cars in the collector world have had this question answered numerous times. An original 318 cubic inch 1970 Plymouth Satelite with a transplant 426 hemi is worth the price of the engine plus something for the family car shell.

Hey Guys, Not to be critical, but we have enough candidates running for office in the political arena to dodge questions.
I didn't ask your artistic preferences , because that's merely a choice, or the value added from std to s/c. But merely the DIFFERENCE in value that is placed on two S/C cars for which one is born with and the other is adopted.

www.oldcarspriceguide.net pg. 44 August 2007 edition lists the following: "NOTE: Add 40 percent for S/C Models".

So if your #6-condition Sportsman is worth $6,280, then getting the S/C installed adds $2,512 to realize a theoretical $$8,792. If your #1-condition Custom Berline is worth $68,000, then getting the S/C installed adds $27,200 to realize a theoretical $95,200. Or if you do a ground-up restoration to realize a profit, count on paying yourself about $4.75/hr. And finally, if paying professionals be sure you can write off the expenses.

If a supercharger kit arrives on your doorstep, you have an unblown '37, and resale value matters, my advice would be "install it"!

I don't think adding the optional arms on Venus would add to her beauty. While arms were standard equipment on her, pipes weren't on a non SC Cord. I have both an outside exhaust and a standard exhaust Phaeton and believe they are both incredibly beautiful as designed. That being said, I do like these "exposed entrails" as referenced from an early critique recalled in Josh's bible, and certainly wouldn't mind outside pipes on my standard car. I just wouldn't place a higher value on it for their inclusion other than the the simple price of the added parts themselves.

I've been thinking about EL's question most of the day and have not been able to estimate a percentage. However, I have arrived at the following:

Like other collectibles, value is generally a function of pedigree, body style, condition (both finish and authenticity) and competition (what else is available at the time).

"originally supercharged" is only one component of pedigree. Should we make this one component more important than if the car was built from parts? The priority that any purchaser places on the components of pedigree are up to the individual.

I would suggest that, to date, "originally supercharged" has played a factor in sale price. By what percentage, I'd ask the guy who has sold more Cord's than any other.

I am willing to speculate that if the trend to value pedigree continues, "originally supercharged" will be more significant in the future.

I'm not sure this helps you EL since your cars have good pedigree, are desirable body styles, in ultimate show or driving condition, seldom for sale and are supercharged.

Can't imagine why anyone would want to put pipes on a perfectly good standard Cord; Prefer the full louvers. (Most common comment is "Didn't these cars have outside pipes?")

But to your point...

Supercharged '30s cars are few, so most people think of Cords with the pipes. And the blower was factory-installed speed equipment that doesn't require changing the block, hence it's always been a bolt-on fairly easy conversion. Seems that most regular folks think all '37s were supercharged anyway. There's no doubt that a blown Cord is more money than a standard, all other things being equal, but is it more valuable non original? I'd venture <5% between a FC and a blown FB or non-original block/power plant.

Only advantage of an original FC car would possibly be in a judging standoff for 1st place between two otherwise perfect cars.

Cords aren't my forte, but I'd imagine it would depend on the venue.

Sold among serious collectors, I imagine there's a big difference between original-supercharged and later-supercharged. Sold at Barrett-Jackson...eh, make it shiny and you're good. (The B-J bidders are like crows...make anything sparkle enough and they'll land on it.)

Would like to know the memberships opinion as to the value DIFFERENCE from an 812, when it is known that a particular car that was not originally super charged and now is ,verses one that was originally built as supercharged.
In other words, how much does the value change either by percentage or dollars, when one is originally built as a S/C car and the other has made into a S/C car.