812 Brake Squeal with new shoes, cylinders, etc.

Jim we have been the US four times to attend the Auburn and Connersville Meets. We have driven extensively in the following states Washington, Oregon, California, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Virginia and found all of the roads to be good and in some areas exceptional. I think from memory we only saw one pot hole and that was in Richmond, Virginia. 
If you saw the corrugated dirt roads here in OZ you would cry. You need good teeth and a mouth guard to proceed. The only way to drive on the corrugated stuff is to drive fast. It is absolute murder on suspensions.
Stay on the black stuff it really is the best in your country.

AJ hang in there at least it has been running and driveable. You will probably have a few minor things to sort out before she is a reliable car again. There are guys out there starting with absolute wrecks which will take years to get to the start up stage.
I did notice the fuel tank looks new and it has a Canadian sticker. Without knowing how old the tank actually is may I suggest you drain the tank to get an idea of just how clean it is.
You may have some dirt in the carburettor. 

Terry - it all depends on what state you are in and the season of the year for the condition of the roads. By the way I love dirt roads! but I prefer rear wheel drive and a manual transmission for dirt!

AJ - Your dad sounds a lot like mine - there were lots of thing that he never had a problem with but went to hell when I took over.   You are doing a good job with the Cord and I look forward to seeing it one of these days, hopefully back in Auburn. Maybe we can caravan out and back. You can pick me up in PA on your way thru. I think the key to them is staying on top of all the little things before they become large items. 

I think all old cars are a pain in the neck to some extent. Typically it is years of deferred maintenance. This was as an issue with our car as my dad clearly slowed down just a bit after 80 and was taking care of too many cars. I need to dig out his long distance award for this car going from Boston to Auburn twice with no issues. Car was great for 50 years right up until I was supposed to be taking care of it. My dad liked to point that out.

Thanks Jim, but you must remember your roads are so much better than what have here in OZ. I figure 1,000 miles in Australia is got to be equal to at least 1,500 miles in the US.
Thank God we can keep clear of dirt roads ....... most of the time.

Hi Terry,
I completely agree with you, The Cords are PURE JOY to drive when they are running right. I put well over 50,000 miles on my sedan and enjoyed almost every one of them. But there is always something to do on them, even if its small. But beware, they have ears and hear you! It seamed like every time I said the Cord was running well, it had to prove me wrong! I don't think they have internet access or can read yet so we are safe here. 
May you have many, many miles of Effortless Motoring!!!
Jim

Jim in the past 12 months my Cord has clocked up over 2,200 miles and is still running sweetly. One problem it has are leaking shock absorbers, which require some more attention but otherwise it is an extremely reliable car and a pleasure to drive ................. now I hope I have not jinxed myself.
AJ you don't need to chamfer the sides of the linings but you will need to replace the linings you have soon. The rivet heads are almost level with the linings.
Hopefully you will sort out the hiccups along the way.

I really hate to tell you...but...Cord are never fully sorted out. If they are it won't last more then 5 miles! That's part of their charm!

Guys, my apologies for sending you on a wild goose chase. I took those pictures after the partial disassembly. All the springs are there correctly.

Good news!!!! I just drove about 10 miles and zero squeaks or lock ups. What fixed it was chamfering all the edges including the sides. So the pads were the problem.

Bad news was 3 miles from home it started sputtering. I do not believe vapor lock as I threw the electric pump on and it didn't completely smooth out. But a separate problem for another day.

I jinxed myself when I thought "Wow, this car is fantastic and finally fully sorted!".

Hello Gary. Yes my early production 810 Cord has the original Lockheed brakes. The pictures I found on the Internet in this topic show the later type Bendix brakes.
Lockheeds are retarders, Bendix are stoppers.

This picture clearly shows a short front shoe. Terry are your brakes Lockheed or Bendix? I believe I recall you telling me these are Lockheed brakes on your 36 car.


Gary Parsons

Exactly... I have been taking before pictures for years now. It sure has helped me more times than I like to recall.


Gary Parsons

After looking at Terry's pic, the green spring at the adjustment wheel appears to actually be one of 2 return springs, that should be attached, one end to the pin at the top of the backing plate, and the other to either the front or rear shoe to pull the shoes back away from the drums, when you take your foot off the brake pedal. The spring that is suppose to be at the bottom, holding the shoes together and keeping the adjustment wheel from turning , except when a spoon is used to tighten or loosen the pads, is not shown in your pic.
You should take an inventory of all your springs and parts to make sure you have all the parts shown on Terry's pic and assemble them as shown.
I don't know about you, but sometimes us older folks can benefit tremendously by taking lots of pics or making diagrams of what we are starting to disassemble, before we disassemble it. Then we can refer to that info as we attempt to remember how it goes back together..

AJ looking on the Internet for Cord Bendix Brakes I found the attached pictures which are in the Forums somewhere.
One shows a front wheel brake assembly and the other shows a rear wheel brake assembly.
You appear to be missing the springs either side of the wheel cylinder and the lower spring is not making contact with the brake adjustment star nut. The spring stops the star nut from moving out of adjustment.
Note The rear spring metal covers. See diagram below pictures.
Good luck with your investigations.

This is a little off topic but is that a new fuel tank or just a reconditioned one ?

Pete. Thank you for the picture. Gary I will investigate that. We leaning that it is the shoes (in particular the material) and perhaps it is directional and one of them is backwards?

We have chamfered the shoes and I'm going to test it out again hopefully on Monday. We would contour them but as you guys have noted some of the rivets are close to the surface.

I'll let you know what happens. Old cars are fun.

I noticed something different between your brakes and Petes brakes. On Petes brakes the adjuster spring is vastly different from yours. I believe your green spring is either on backwards or its the wrong type of adjuster spring.. I'm not able to remove one of my rear wheels and drums to get a picture for everyone to see.


Gar Parsons

I looked again and the bolt,nut and cotter pin is the pivot for the e-brake arm. Everything else looks about the same as yours.
Is the lining directional?
Pete

Thanks Pete. That is a good idea.

Hi AJ
Switch the shoes to the other side of the car and see if the squeak follows.
My brakes have the same bolt, nut etc. on the rears. Seems wrong but that is what they did on at least these 2 cars..
Pete

Thanks guys. I should have noted that when the pictures were taken the we had partially disassembled things which accounts for the emergency brake bar and spring missing.

Terry - I'm eying the shoes suspiciously also. Digging out some original shoes tomorrow for comparison.

I will report results.

Your emergency brake push bar has come out of the flat area toward the top of the front shoe. The emergency push bar should be basically horizontal, it is drooping and not connected at the end., Also you have no spring pulling the front shoe toward the axle as you do on the rear shoe which can be seen just below the emergency brake bar..

Hi AJ for new brake linings the rivet heads are close to the top of the linings usually the rivet heads are recessed quit a bit to allow for the linings to wear.
The rivet heads will be rubbing against the drum in no time.
I also noted there is no chamfer at the ends of the linings.
Not being familiar with the Bendix brakes I'm surprised to see a nut with a split pin holding the upper part of one brake shoe. I would have expected there to be spring loaded clips in four places.

I have another set of drums and original shoes which I'm going to go find and compare. Today we removed the drivers side drum and it has the same shoe setup as the passenger side (with no squeak).

You are correct that the front and back look to be identical. While the original set I have seem to have a short and a long.

Also note that there is a direction the front or back shoe has to be installed. I believe the short shoe is installed on the front side of the drum because the back shoe actually is doing most of the work in stopping the car. The short front shoe drives the back shoe into the drum thru the rotation. If I'm wrong this forum has many more knowledgeable than me. But I try non the less. Remember, making mistakes is a way of learning. We are learning all the time. I think Jim Obrien said it best... All Cords are the same but they are all different.....


Gary Parsons

Thanks Gary. We are pulling the drum off the other side and I'm wondering if two longs were put on one side and two shorts on the other. I will report back with what we find.

A.J.

It appears to have both long shoes on this side. Many drum brakes use a long and a short shoe on each wheel. I'm not sure if our Cords are the same but its something to look into.


Gary Parsons

Guys,  I'm in the home stretch.  I have 50 miles on this with the new brakes and I'm still getting a squeal from the right rear wheel at 1/2 pedal.   I was hoping the pads would seat but there is something amiss.  That wheel will also lock up ahead of the others.   New shoes, cylinders, etc.   See attached pictures and video.   Does anything stand out?



Thanks!!!

A.J.