Question about the serial number for an 810/812 sedan I might inherit

I haven't posted anything in the last 2 & 1/2 months, but I have new news: I learned where that Cord body & chassis came from and its history.  

Ron Irwin gave me the contact info for Ron McCrory in TX, the owner of the 2038 car.  I talked to him a few Sundays ago...very nice guy.  He told me that the original 2038 car was owned by Sid Ayers, who found it in NY & brought it home to Ohio where he worked on it.  He eventually moved to TX & sold it to Ron M., who restored it using a clean body & chassis from California.  Ron M. kept everything (including the 2038 serial number plate) except for the old body & front subframe with the 1038 stamping. 

According to Ron M., the body & subframe passed through a couple of owners & eventually made their way to Bill Bicknell in MO, the engine rebuilder.  Ron M. gave me Bill's contact info with his old MO phone number, and that's when I remembered Dad's girlfriend & auto mechanic friend telling me that Dad would take road trips to the states surrounding Illinois to buy cars & parts.  Missouri was one of them, and Dad's friend remembered riding along on several trips, though he couldn't remember where the Cord came from.

Then I sent a letter to Bill asking about all of that & included some photos.  He confirmed that he sold the body & chassis to Dad about 5-6 years ago.  I talked to Bill last week....also a very nice guy, and I learned more about the transaction with Dad.  He said that he put the Cord together with as many parts as he had, and then he sold it to Dad as "parts" without a title.  The sale/trade also involved Bill's friend Bob and included 1.) a Glenn Pray Cord 8/10 replica body & frame w/out a motor & transmission, with the body cut down for racing, and 2.)  a Glenn Pray frame with several fiberglass body parts to put together.  Bill said that Dad always wanted a Cord, and I remember that Dad liked both replicas and cars from the 1930s.  But we don't know what Dad's plans were for any of them.  

It looks like I have Ron M.'s old body & subframe.  Ron said the original Cord body wasn't in very good shape, and Bill said the body had problems around the leaf spring mounts or shackles.  At first I thought I have a different body because it didn't look too bad whenever I checked it out.  But I probably missed some of the body rust/rot (always in a hurry & lousy eyesight), so I'll be going to the garage at the end of the week to get better photos of the rear suspension & look for any other problem areas.

So, that pretty much solves the mystery of the Cord with the 1038 subframe.  I'll be putting the Cord sedan & those 8/10 replicas/parts up for sale, so I'll have to figure out a price for everything & the best way to sell them.  I guess I can say that I'm a Cord owner, even if it'll just be for a short time!


Mike

Thanks John, I'll make sure that I ask him about his frame number.  I just sent a letter to Ron in CA, and I forgot to ask about the certification process & the cross check.  Thanks for that info.  



 

Mike,
You need to ask him about his frame number. It is possible that he has the 2038 serial number plate that is attached to the right side of the cowl, but does not have the 1038 on the frame.
When Ron said this is a known car since 1953, they didn't necessarily cross check the frame to the cowl unless they were certifying the car.

Happy New Year, guys.  I got a reply from Ron about the stamping.  He looked at the photos I sent of the subframe, and he saw it as "1038,"  which means it's the "2038" number that's already accounted for.  Looks like I'll have to figure out a way to get the car titled with a new serial number, which could be done through a process involving the sheriff's department....I'll look into that next.

Ron said subframe did not come from a prototype.  The only explanation he could think of for another "1038" was a mistake on the assembly line....maybe another number should've been stamped.  But he also gave me the contact info for the current owner of the "810-2038A" Cord.  I'll send the owner an e-mail & ask him about his serial number. 


Mike

Terry, I'll check it out.  And I didn't know that your car is called the Actonite Cord!

Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to you, and also everyone else at the ACD Club & forum.


MIke

Hi Mike.
Go to the heading Judging Standards, the article I wrote is called "Wheels". Basically I had a picked a Ford Falcon from the Melbourne Assembly Plant that had pressed steel wheels on one side and mag wheels on the other. Even I had not noticed checking the cars over for dents etc before loading them.
Yes my Westchester has an amazing story. It has become known as the Actonite Cord.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
from, Terry Cockerell
Down Under in Australia.

John: thanks for the stamping info.  Since the numbers were used one at a time, that pretty much eliminates my hypothetical idea about using an 8 stamp for a 3.  

I meant to say 2038, not 1038....I was real tired & bleary-eyed when I posted that.  I usually log in to the ACD forum well past midnight since I work late.  In fact it's about 2:45 a.m. right now....bedtime real soon.

Terry: yeah, that would be neat to take the Cord to the show, even as an unrestored car.  The Wheels in the Judging Standard article that you wrote....is this the same article from 2014 about the Cord that went from Ontario to Australia? 

I just did a search for the Wheels article but didn't find it.  I'll try again another day.  I read the Canadian Cord article quickly a few weeks ago, so I want to read it again.....real interesting story about that car & its travels.

I'm all for keeping the input going, and once again, thanks to all of you for the help & info.   BTW, I'm sending the frame number photos to Ron today, along with a few of the body/chassis.  In the letter with the photos, I asked Ron about the possibility of the frame being donated from a hand-built Cord.


Mike

Hi John good point you made. I had forgotten about adding the extra digit.
810 - 2038 A is listed in The Timeless Classic.
Regardless of the numbers we are getting more input from the members which is what we all need.
Let's keep it up.

Mike & Terry,
If the frame number is 1038, that's the frame number only. To get the serial number, you have to add 1000. That gives you 2038 for a serial number. That's the system they were using.
The numbers were evidently stamped one number at a time. The line people doing this would have most likely had a set of stamps , supplied by Auburn, that were at the appropriate location where the number was suppose to be
stamped. These are not little stamps that an individual would have in a personal tool box. If the last number was suppose to be an 8, they would pick up the 8 after putting the 3 back in place.

Check out my article on Wheels in the Judging Standards.
Just imagine taking that car to a show!

That's definitely true about the funny things that happen on a production line, especially in recent years with all of the options available.  Sometimes low-line models get options & features installed that they're not supposed to get!  And production anomalies always happen.

But that's what makes me wonder if the last digit might've been intended as a 3 instead of an 8.  In an earlier post, I wondered if an assembly line worker responsible for the number stampings didn't have another "3" stamper, so he improvised and used an "8" stamper without striking the left side of the digit.  Maybe it's 1033.

When I send the photos to Ron, I'll include a letter asking him about the stamping anomaly & 1033 possibility, and I'll also ask him about the current owner of the 1038 car.  That would be pretty interesting if the front subframe came from a hand-built Cord.


Mike

It definitely looks like 1038 so it is possible that the drive frame came from a Hand Built Cord and was later mated up to an early production sedan body.
You could check with Ron Irwin to discuss frame numbers with the current owner of the "known" Cord with Serial No 810 - 1038 A

In the Engineering Change Notes there is a listing of two engines having the same number. Also two Westchesters came to Australia with the letter "K" in the Serial No. It was probably a mistake as K sounds a bit like A. So a lot of funny things did happen along the production line.

Here are some photos of the serial number taken with the digital camera.  These might be the best images, but I can post more later.   

On the last digit, you can barely see the left-side middle portion curl up & down like the middle of an "8." But according to Ron, "1038" is accounted for.  I also thought it might be a "3" though it doesn't look like the flat-top third digit "3"....what do you think?    Mike    


 

Jim: I would like to go to the reunion with the car, but there's no way I can do it.  I won't have time, a way to haul it to Auburn, or money for the expenses.  But it would be good to have the certification team look over the car & check the number on the frame.  

Too bad the certification team can't make house calls....or "storage garage calls!!!"

Ron looked at the cell phone pix I posted, the ones Terry mentioned.  Ron also thought it's an early model.

I'm planning on a visit to the garage this Friday with the digital camera.   I'll see if I can get some good photos with better detail.  I'll get photos of the entire car top to bottom....I'd like Ron to see the underside with the newer bolts etc. 
 

Jim if you go back to the first group of pictures posted by Mike the cowl filler pipes are clearly seen.
The body must be a 1936 810

Mike,
Can you bring the car to Auburn next year for the Reunion? The Certification team can look at the number, They have had lots of practice over the years. They can look over the car and have a better idea if it is a 1936 or a 1937.
Jim 

Here is most of Ron Irwin's letter.  A fellow named Randy Ema made a copy of the posts for him:  "Either three or four digits are correct for the 810/812 Cord.  The frame number 1838 is an impossible number.  It is way too high for either the 810 or 812 Cord.  I would like a picture of the frame stamping.  (Photos would be appreciated.)  A zero for the second digit would not make it one of the hand-built Cords. After adding 1000 you get 2038; this is a known car since 1953.  Apparently Terry was using the frame number as the serial.

Looking in the Engineering Change Notebook I find that two ventilators were being installed by June 1936 about car 2316.  That means your car would have an earlier serial number.

There are no differences in the Westchester and Beverly bodies.  Only the interior trim is different."

Lots of good information thanks to Ron, and all of you, too.  It gets me closer to figuring out the serial number.  I appreciate all the help.

I did get a digital camera from one of my cousins, so now I can take better photos of the number (& the entire car) on the next storage garage visit.  I was there last week & looked at the serial number again and, after trying some different angles with the flashlight, I was able to see the right side of the second digit for the first time.  It has the same look & slight curve of the zero digit stamping on Tom's car.  The left side of the digit is still missing its middle portion.  But the digit pretty much looks like a zero.  I'll see what Ron has to say in a few weeks once he gets the photos, and I'll post the frame photo here if it comes out.

It still looked like 1038 on the last visit, though that number 2038 is already taken according to Ron.  Maybe what I think is an "8" is actually something else, but we'll see.  I had a passing thought about someone at the factory using an 8 stamper for the fourth digit & angling it to make a "makeshift 3" because the line worker didn't have another "flat-top 3" stamper, possibly making the number on my frame "1033."  I don't know how likely that would've been, though "makeshift actions" still happen even today on modern assembly lines! 

I'll have to ask Ron if 2033 is accounted for....or if any here knows, I appreciate the info.


Mike
 

Lycoming288 - thanks, and though I don't have the car in my name yet, it was a nice surprise to discover this car in Dad's collection.  And the March 2020 Hemmings article about "The Buried Cord" is what gave me the idea about spare parts from the handbuilts ending up in/under other Cords.

Jim - big thanks for that info.  Hope to get the books in the next few months.  The Hemmings article refers to a placard next to the Buried Cord display at the ACD museum that has some info on what happened to the handbuilt Cords after the shows.  

By the way, I got a letter from Ron Irwin.  Very nice of him to provide some serial number info.  I'll share what he said here in the next few days....it's 2:30 a.m. & long past bedtime!


Mike

Mike,
The first "100" Cords were not prototypes but were hand built cars before the production line started. There were earlier prototype cars that were built and to my knowledge none of them survived.

In order to get into the Auto Shows of the day, a manufacturer had to have produced at least 100 cars. Auburn rushed production of 100 cars (most historians don't believe 100 were made) to get into the show. These were considered the "Handbuilt Cords". These were the cars that were actually in the 1935 auto shows (starting in Nov. of 1935). There is still a lot of debate if these show cars ran or even had transmissions in them. 

Many of these Handbuilt Cord sedan still survive. The convertibles had issues (body design problems) and all but one of them were scrapped after being cannibalized.

I would suggest reading some of the Cord books that explain all of this in a lot more detail.

Jim

That would be entirely possible, and we may never know for sure, but it sounds good to me. Congrats for finding one of the unknown Cords!

I have a question for Jim or anyone else about the first 100 hand-built Cords: once the production started, what would've happened to the first 100 prototypes?  I always thought that any prototype would be eventually scrapped because it couldn't be legally sold as a complete car, but I don't know if that rule/law existed in the 1930s.   

Is there any possibility that some or all were parted out and the parts could've migrated to different Cords?  I had a passing thought about the subframe on my car being from a prototype, if we read the number as "038" and forget that first digit "1."  I don't know how likely it would be not knowing the history of the "first 100".....not sure how many of the prototypes exist, either.  


Mike

 

Thanks for the info, Jim.  I didn't know that Auburns used the same add-1000 rule.

I think someone mentioned the leftover 1936 cars being re-serialized as 1937s.  I wonder how many were re-tagged.


Mike

Mike,
In 1936 the frame numbers (we call them unit number) started at 1. The seral numbers started at 1001. The first 100 numbers were the "handbuilt" Cords. Production then started at serial number 1101 (frame number 101). At the end of 1936 they had a bunch of Cord that were not sold. Instead of selling them as left overs they renumbered them using serial number 1001 to 1525. The frame numbers on these cars were not changed.

The 1937 production serial numbers started at 1526, frame number started at 526.

The add 1000 to the frame number to get the seral number was used through out the Cord Production run. It was also used on Auburns starting in 1930.

Please note that the only thing that changed right at the 1936/1937 was the model number and serial number plate. All other changes were running changes.

Jim

I don't know the assembly line history (a good reason for me to get the Malks books & something to bring up to Ron Irwin), so I'll ask this: is it possible that the assembly line started using a "1" digit stamp on the frame somewhere during the 1936 model year, going from three-digit stampings to four, and making the "add 1000" rule irrelevant after a certain point?  

I was just thinking that since the serial number plates on the firewall (at least the ones I've seen) have four digits, then maybe the assembly line started using "1" on the frame stamping to match the plate number.  I don't know if that actually happened....just a thought, in case there were any "mid-year changes."


Mike

Tom,
On the Cords they renumbered at the beginning of 1937 they did not restamp or change the frame number. 
Jim

My car is actually a renumbered 812.  The number on the data plate is 1452H.  Does this mean the subframe number should be 452?
Tom

Tom, thanks for that photo.  Several similarities to what I've got.  The "1" stamping has the same look on my frame.  The "flat-top 3" is what I have, too. 

Now, the zero at the end of your serial number has the same general look or curvature as the upper & lower portions of the second digit on mine.  If I have a zero, it's probably the same zero stamper....lots of similarity.  In my case the entire middle of that digit didn't come out when it was originally stamped.  I've also thought it could be an "8" that's missing the "middle x-cross portion."

I'll take a look at the second digit again when I get back to the garage.  I'm leaning toward zero based on the similar appearance to your frame's zero.  I don't think I have a "6" because it drops down further on the right side like the zero - the second digit looked like the way I drew it, seen in a previous photo.  But it's worth another look. 


Mike

 

Tom,
If your frame number is 1630, your Vin number is 2630. 2630 is not listed in Josh's book for an 810. The guy stamping your frame must have had a steady hand and a good heavy hammer, your number is clear as a bell.

As bad as my 80 year eye are, I’m seeing 1630.

i cleaned the paint from my subframe and found the number.  The first digit is definately a "1".  In the list in Josh's Timeless Classic book it looks like this number is already used.  Perhaps my subframe was on that car when new.
Tom

Hi Jim, and thanks.  The digit that may (or may not) be a "1" actually looks like a capital "I" with two crossbars (like a Times New Roman font) and the upper right corner of the crossbar cut off.  I'm not sure if it's just a line or mark but whatever it is, it's actually stamped better than the other three digits!  Maybe it's an assembly line anomaly....I doubt a previous owner would've stamped his own number, but anything's possible with an 87-year-old car. 

I think the last digit is an "8" because the left side of the digit has portions that curve up & down.  It wasn't stamped well & the left side of it is virtually missing.  But the middle section of the last digit crosses like a semi-flattened "X" and has slight curves up & down like an 8.  The only way I could tell was by getting my bad eyes right up next to the frame with a flashlight after I removed the repro fender.

I have a photo of my drawing of those numbers in one of the earlier posts, too, along with the not-very-good photo of the actual number stamp.  The way I drew the digits is pretty much how I saw them once I got up close & angled the flashlight in several directions.  I provided a similar drawing in the letter to Ron.


Mike

 

Hi Mike,
Serial number 2838 is too high for a Cord for either year. Looking at the photos I see the 8 and 3. The last digit I can only see the bottom and could be a 0, 3, 5 or 8, It's are to tell from the photo. I don't see a 1 in front of the 8. I see a line but it doesn't resemble the one stamp the factory used so it could be a mark on the frame. It will be interesting to see what Ron has to say.
Jim

Thanks for the info, John.  That's a good point about the subframe.  Now that you've mentioned the anomaly between the early body & the higher frame number, it makes me think more & more that Dad bought a project car that the previous owner could've put together from different sources.  I don't know that for sure....Dad had one friend who knows cars & handled his collection, but that friend didn't know the history of this car or who sold it to Dad. 

I sent that letter to Ron Irwin before I saw your posts, so I didn't ask about the possibility of "2838" even though it's a high number for a 1936 Cord & above 2830, but I'll bring it up to him if he responds.  I want to get a copy of one or both Josh Malks books, though that'll have to wait until after Christmas & Mom's doctor appointments.

I went to the garage several days ago & took some more photos of the car, this time with the fiberglass reproduction fenders removed.  Some of the pix are of the engine bay & what remains of the front suspension.  In an earlier post I mentioned that the previous owner installed some newer nuts & bolts on the underside. But there are some newer nuts & bolts installed on the front subframe, which you can see in the two dim photos of the RHS (near the 4-digit number I found) and on the LHS....maybe those point to a "donor subframe." 

Mike

The previous message answers what you should use for serial number, as it is the only number you can find on the car. This a very high number for an 810. Your body is an early body. The subframe has to have been changed at some point in time to answer this anomaly.

Your frame number appears to be 1838, 4 digits. That doesn't mean the serial no. of the car is 1838, you still need to add 1000 to the frame no. to get the serial no.. Reference Josh Marks book " The Timeless Classic" page 244 paragraph 2 Model 810. Josh has serial numbers for 810's as high as 2830, that frame no. should be 1830. He doesn't necessarily have every car listed, so serial no.2838 is a possibility.

The letter to Ron is on its way.  Hopefully he'll get it and respond soon.  I definitely want to get Ron's info before I start the title process.

Get information from Ron "before" applying for title with serial no. CORDially Mike

E L, thanks for that bit of info....that gets me closer to figuring out what the car is.  1838 would slot right in to those Westchesters you mentioned.

Terry, thanks for Ron's address. I take it he's a Cord historian who has a list of the cars that have been accounted for?  I think I saw his name somewhere on one of the classic car websites.....might've been an older article about Cords.

The title work has to be done soon, so I'll have to figure out how to present that serial number on the paperwork the girlfriend will fill out.  I am leaning toward 1838 based on what I saw on the frame + the information I learned here on the forum. 

I'll try to get a letter to Ron soon, and hopefully I'll be able to talk to him.

By the way, I appreciate all the help you guys have provided so far!  Big thanks to Terry who's been a real big help, especially with bits of info on these cars, the diagram & a lot more....I've learned a lot about the 1936-37 Cords in a short amount of time between the forum & internet research.  

Mike if you find that it is 1838 then please contact Ron Irwin as it will be another previously unknow Cord.
Ron is not into emails. Last time I spoke to him which was quite a while ago he was struggling to hear me.
His home address is,
18319 Grayland Ave
Artesia CA 90701 - 5737

1837 and 1839 are known 36 Westchester's
Good chance for 1838 to fill the gap.

Thanks, Terry.  I've actually been looking for one of the Josh Malks books, but I haven't found a copy that isn't expensive, and money's tight till after Christmas.  But I will eventually pick up one or both knowing that they're great reference tools.

The car has/had a mounted fiberglass reproduction RHS front fender, which I removed so I could get up close to the number with a flashlight (bad eyesight).  I still couldn't get a great photo, but I posted the best I can get.  The rub didn't work because the numbers are too faint, but I drew the numbers as they appear on paper, which I also posted below.

What's pretty interesting is that there are FOUR number between the rivets with "1" as the first digit....not the usual "three digits on the frame & then add 1000" situation. I know there were some assembly line variations (like interior parts between the Beverly & Westchester), so maybe someone had a "1" stamper and used it for some reason?

The second digit on the frame looks like an 8 in the photo (maybe image distortion), but up close it looks like two halves of a zero or an incomplete 8 because the middle of the digit is missing.  SInce 033 is unlikely, I'm betting that this is an 8.  If some of my online research is correct, a lot of the 3-digit serial numbers started with 8.

I was able to see that the last digit is definitely an 8, missing part of its left side....just not hammered hard enough.

To me it looks like "1838" between the rivets, so is a "810-1838" a safe bet for a serial number? 

The only other question is whether this is a Beverly or Westchester, to add the "S" or "A" respectively to the serial number .  The interior was gutted, so is there a way to tell from the exterior?  Not sure if the shroud on the coffin nose (under the hood) with the metal tubes indicates anything, though the Cords I've seen in online photos that look like this are usually tagged as Westchesters.

I'll have to apply for a lost title once Dad's girlfriend fills out her paperwork for the DMV.  No title could be found in Dad's belongings, and there's a good chance he bought it without any title.  That's the big reason for the serial number question....just trying to be precise for the paperwork & the eventual new title. 

I was wondering about that lug....whoever welded it to the frame did a sloppy job, and it was done long ago.  To go along with that lug, it looks like a few nuts, bolts & washers were installed/replaced on the underside in a few locations too....I don't know who did (I doubt my dad did any work to the car).  My best guess is that Dad bought someone's old unfinished custom or "restomod" project.


Mike

I agree the numbers are difficult to see.
Yes the letter A refers to the Westchester with the fastback body. It is doubtful that the number is 033 as that would indicate it was one of the Hand Built Cords.
Looking at the pictures showing the firewall again the stiffening ribs pressed into the firewall appear to be the rounded "Production" type. My I suggest you purchase one of Josh Malks' books The Timeless Classic or Cord Complete. Taking a rubbing of the number will be best.
An extra hole had been cut through the frame with a lug welded on one side as seen in the first picture. This is not stock.

A few days ago I looked at the front subframe and found the 3-digit number between the 4 rivets/studs.  That stamping is definitely faint....I'm going back to the garage in a few days with a soft pencil & tracing paper to see if I can rub an image of the number onto the paper.  

The number looks like either "033" or "833."  I'm leaning toward 033 because I didn't see the "x" in the middle of that first digit....it looks rounded like a zero at the top & bottom of the digit with nothing stamped in the middle....either way, it's definitely a poor stamp job.

Also, I noticed that there's a difference in the font of each number "3."  The one in the middle is a flat-top 3 and the other is rounded.  I was wondering if that was possible when the number was stamped....not sure how consistent they were with fonts at the factory.  I'm pretty sure the third digit is a 3 and not an 8 based on sight, but I'll see what happens when I use the old "pencil-&-paper-rub-trick."

If this car is an early production 1936 Cord 810, would 033 or 833 fit into the series of serial numbers for that year?  And let's say the basic serial number is 810-1033....would there be a letter at the end to indicate the non-bustleback body style for that year?

(By the way, I saw the 2006 ACD forum post about serial numbers, where Josh Malks referred to a Westchester with the letter "A" and an 812 Beverly with "S".)

I attached a couple of photos, which admittedly aren't very good, and the close-up of the number is lousy due to phone camera quality.  

Thanks,


Mike

Thanks for the info, Terry....now I have a better idea about what this car is.  Being somewhat new to Cords, I'm not too familiar with some of the model changes & details, so that's a big help. 

George - good point about using paint remover....a lot of cars back then had real faint stampings.  

Next up....go to the storage garage....move a kit car that's sitting next to the Cord out of the way so I have more room to get to the RHS....

Looking at your pictures more closely this morning it appears the Cord is an early production 810 as it has the cowl filler pipes coming through the firewall. There is also a flip up lid on the RHS of the cowl to gain access to the pipe caps. On the LHS is an air vent. George is correct in saying "Use paint remover and to be careful". The number may easily be damaged by scraping.

Be sure to use paint remover, a scraper might eliminate the number.

Terry, a BIG thank you for the help & the sketch.  I really appreciate it.  I'll go back & look for the number when I get a chance. 

 

The "missing" sub frame you referred to is there. This is the frame that bolts into the front of the body and carries the engine and gearbox. I will look for a picture showing where to find the frame number. Found the sketch, my frame number is 586 which corresponds with Serial No 1586 A
The stamped numerals can be difficult to see as they used 1/2" high stamps that were probably hit by hand with a hammer leaving a light indentation.
Looking at the picture showing the side view of the car it is not possible to see if there are countersunk screws along the top of the rear fender stone guards.
Three countersunk screws would indicate the car was an 812 where as the 810 Cords had studs soldered to the back of the stone guards leaving a smooth surface on the outside.
At least you can hopefully find the frame number now.

I have some photos of the Cord.  One shows the firewall with no serial number plate.  Two photos are views of the underside from the rear passenger corner looking toward the driver side.  One photo has the rear passenger tire on the right, leaf spring & rear axle, and a U-shape bracket toward the top of the photo....not sure if that bracket would attach to a subframe.  The last photo looks toward the rear driver side tire....as you can see, there's a strap but no gas tank & no subframe.

I've had a hard time finding any undercarriage photos of Cord sedans for comparison.

Mike
  

Hi Pete: I'll try to post some photos this weekend....not sure if I can get the photos from the cheap cell phone to an old laptop, but I'll give it a try.  They're not great quality photos, but I'll make sure to post a firewall photo & maybe a few from underneath the car.


Mike