Cord Transmission question

Aluminium panels will help to keep the weight under control however 1,000 lbs above the original weight of the Westchester is way too heavy.
In restoring my Westchester space was an ongoing problem as a lot of it had to moved a number of times. You will need a decent size garage to accodate the project.

The heavy gauge steel will be mainly for the undercarriage, the body will be 16 ga steel, so not too heavy, the hood, grille and opening roof panels will be aluminum to cut down on weight just like the original. the original Phantom Corsair weighed 4500 lbs and was 237 inches long and 76.5 inches wide. so, it wasn't a sports car by any stretch, I have a target weight of no more than 4700 unloaded. I'll have to look into brakes since the original had 810 Westchester brakes, so stopping would have been entertaining at least, so either 812 brakes or maybe a custom disc setup is in order. I suppose the reason for the name was that it sounded exotic at the time. I don't imagine that the people watching the movie at the time knew what a wombat was. that or the fact the wombat can charge you and try to run you over. who knows, kind of a silly name but The Young at Heart was a fantastic movie. little goofy at times but a great movie overall. I especially loved the musical horn it had. I will be on the hunt for parts and will slowly start getting things ready for a place to start building. It will be a challenge, but a fun one.

As mentioned previously that is one very ambitious project to take on. I hope you get there in the end. If you are going to use heavier gauge steel the car will become too heavy. The standard Westchester weighed 3,715 lbs and the original brakes were just adequate. 812 Cords had better brakes.
As you would probably construct a full chassis and then fit the body it would become just too heavy.
I remembered seeing the film "The Flying Wombat." when I was a child.
Why on earth was the name Wombat chosen? The Wombat is an Australian animal that is incredibly slow and basically lives underground digging tunnels.
Still it was a great movie. Keep us posted with your progress.

Well, now that I see how the drivetrain is installed into the car, it actually makes my job about 10,000 times easier. Now I can focus on building a frame around the drivetrain, not having to modify an existing one. better all-around too. I have been teaching myself body sheet metal work, welding, machining etc. And I've dabbled in homemade tractors and whatnot so it will be a fun project. The Phantom Corsair's body has very gentle curves to it so forming will be easy for the most part, but the end of the boattail, and the areas around the side windows and rear fenders will take some engineering to pull off. but it's all doable. the seams in the body down the center line and on the rear fenders will be where I will weld the body together and to form the unibody. some things will be different, like the electric opening doors, and the gauge pack. I will make it of stronger steel to basically have an armored car, and it will have comfort amenities that will be in theme of the car, like power windows, a refrigerator in the rear where the original had a liquor cabinet, and air conditioning. I want it to be a tribute to the original with art deco themes throughout and it to be a reliable daily driver. It looks so intimidating; imagine a dark, foggy night and you see this thing rumble up behind you. absolutely menacing.  On the inside, a cavernous cockpit with a big, overstuffed sofa for a seat with the moonlight sonata playing on the radio quietly cruising down the highway at night. Oh yes, that's the dream. Rust Heinz had that dream, he wanted to produce the car until he tragically passed, and the dream never saw an assembly line, so I want to make one as a tribute to the dream of such a car. And with the right tools and parts, it will become a reality.

Cody that is a very ambitious project. The Cord does not have a complete chassis. The body is an all welded construction to which the drive train frame is bolted. I don't think much of the original Cord was left within the Phantom Corsair. The new body ended up be a lot bigger and heavier.Yes the oil pump is a removable assembly.How are you going to form the body panels?Two of the attached pictures show my Westchhester being dismantled for restoration.The last picture I found ages ago on the Internet, it show the cockpit of the Phantom Corsair. 

Hi Cody,
Yes the pump bolts to the transmission housing. There really is no reason to an electric pump. As long as you don't allow the Cord to sit and idle in neutral for extended periods of time. A clutch stick works well for the occasional times you may want to idle in neutral - also works well when the car stalls in gear and you have to push it.

The once case I know of damage from excessive idling  was when a owner would back the Cord out of the garage, allow it to idle for 30 to 45 mins and pull it back in the garage. He did this every week for 6 or 8 months before the transmission seized. 

The real answer is to drive the car and not worry about it.
Jim

Thanks for the warm welcome Terry, glad to be hopping on the bandwagon. Thanks so much for the diagrams. Now it makes sense, the pump is coupled to the output only. I'm used to transmissions having the cluster gear coupled to input constantly, on this tranny it combines input and sliding gears all in one assembly. really a good idea since it saves on production costs. but I can see why the oil pump is needed. Does the oil pump directly bolt to the front of the housing as a separate unit? if so, drilling a bolt, adding a brass fitting to the bolt and running a line out to a small electric pump would be fairly easy. I would run the oil through a cooler then back to the filter. shouldn't be too hard to make that modification, fully reversable too. I want to find a cord 810 in rough shape but with an intact chassis and drive train as I want to build a second Phantom Corsair in honor of Rust Heinz. The Phantom Corsair was how I first learned of the Cord and when I visited the Duesenberg Museaum, I was head over heels for these cars and the amazing engineering of the drive train. I would take the body off the cord, and preserve it, then I would take measurements from the original Phantom Corsair in Reno, and start building it just as Rust did, but with a few modifications so it could be driven reliably.

Hi Cody welcome to the world of Cords. Attached are some diagrams and an exploded view of the gearbox to help you understand what is going on. The original screw oil pump did work however it did not supply sufficent oil hence the gear pump upgrade.
The oil pump is only driven when the wheels are turning. If the engine is running in neutral with the clutch engaged no oil is circulated to the upper shaft and since 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears remain stationary eventually the bearings will seize unless fresh lubricant is supplied. It is not a good idea to idle the engine for extended periods in neutral. I have heard a figure of 15 minutes is allowable above that you are looking for trouble. The simplest solution is to depres the clutch or hold it down with a clutch stick. The clutch stick is a piece of wood that will fit between the lower edge of the dash and the clutch pedal. It's best to avoid heavy slow moving traffic conditions.
Adding an extra electric powered pump would complicate things. I have considered it myself. Good luck with finiding a suitable Cord.
They are wonderful cars to own, look after and enjoy.



 

Interesting, an oil pump? sounds like a fairly good idea to me. though, one thing i wonder is, does the cluster gear turn whenever the clutch is engaged? most transmissions have an input shaft that spins the cluster gear whenever the clutch is in, so it would seem that the oil pump would be turning, albeit slowly. if oiling is what it needs, then a small electric oil pump forcing oil through the shafts or at least across the gears so it soaks in would be cheap insurance for long life

The design of the Cord transmission was not the best engineering idea. It was first made as a three speed unit. But E.L. Cord demanded a four speed. The car was already designed so no extra space of the longer four  speed trans. The gears were made smaller to make the four speed work in the small available space.The very first Cord transmission did not have whats talked about having a "grease pump"... It actually was an screw type oil pump. It did not work. So a gear type design was made. It runs off the lower cluster gear pinnion shaft in the trans.So during idle sitting not moving there is no oil being pumped to the upper shaft bushings. Oil is NOT splashed up to the top bushings or gears when its idling. Not the best design.. Some design changes have been made like a larger oil pump gear set that increases the pressure and volumne. Its really not needed but its added insurance some owners want.. Because of the vacuum electric shifting this transmission is not something chat can be "speed shifted" ever... If I left out anything several members will correct me and I appreciate this.


Gary Parsons.

Hello all, Cody here, got a question for you in regard to the Cord transmission. Why can't you spend time idling in neutral? if for example your stuck in a traffic jam, what harm does it do to idle it? I do not own an 810 yet but am looking into one in the future. I understand things like taking it easy and not winding out the gears, i do the same on my ford model a truck, but it would seem if you had the selector in neutral and were just sitting it wouldn't do anything to it just idling. The only thing i can think of is perhaps heat buildup but an oil cooler would fix that it would seem. any info as to why to can't idle the tranny would be much appreciated.