1930 Auburn starting issues

As mentioned, you need compression.

That being said you do not need to be on the top end of the chart.

I recall a Brass Car that passed through our garage that SHOCKED eveyone that it was still running and it went on to tour for another 5 seasons before it needed a rebuild (and it ate a lot of oil and a billion dollars in spark plugs in the process - good news was that the exhust did not rust).

In 1930, there were three different heads listed for the Auburn 125.
A1-204 Cylinder head - 5:24 to 1 ratio "Standard"
A1-208 Cylinder head - 5:75 to 1 ratio "Medium"
A1-209 Cylinder head - 6:25 to 1 ratio "High"

The 8-95 listed similar heads with different part numbers.
These numbers are from the parts book.
I don't know if your cylinder head has any markings on it.
I would say that if you have about 80#s and all the cylinders are within five pounds of each other, then you probably have good compression. Valves can stick if they have been sitting for a long time. The compression test is quick and will help eliminate some possibilities.
Dave

Go here for stats on your car: classiccardatabase.com/specs.php ... model=1758

I cannot attest for the accuracy in this database.

Thanks David
I am not sure what the compression ratio is on this car but my guess it is only 4 or 5 to 1

Wish I could help get your engine started. Here's a chart from an old Chilton Manual. Dave

I would guess about 90-100 with engine cold and carb. venture open.
Cordially Mike

Does anyone know what the compression on this engine should be?

Run a compression check on the engine. Are the valves set correctly? High rate of crank suggests open valves. A down draft carb. will get gas to the cyl. by gravity even if the compression is bad. Updraft carbs. depend on good compression,vaccum, to draw fuel into the cyl.
Cordially Mike

Just for clarification, my car is a Model 125. I have no idea when it last ran.

Dave, Thanks for the Auburn Eight data sheet. I have this information but this is a nice handy one page reference sheet.

Looks like I have everything set correctly. I may give this a rest for a few days and then check everything out again. I just think that there is something obvious that I am doing wrong and just missing what that is.

I have a new 6 volt battery that is fully charged. I do notice that when I try to start the car, I get a real fast turn over immediately. This high turn over or crank does slow down after a few seconds. It should be enough to start the car but there is a definite slow down. Not sure if this is related to the problem. I have an 8 volt battery. I have not tried this but giving it some thought

Here is the tune up card for the Lycoming MD engine. Dave

This is the tune up card for the Lycoming GR engine. I will send the card for the MD engine next. I'm not too good at attaching pictures here. Dave

Hi All
8-120 or 8-125 are BIG 8
8-95 etc are small 8
1931 is 8-98
1932 is 8-100
1933 is 8-101
Not to mention Salon models
The small 8 from 28-30 is basically the same engine as the later 8-98 to 852 engines. There are of course differences.
Small 8 distributors are on the drivers side of the cam and require a lump on the side of the engine and head.
Big 8 distributors are on the passenger side of the cam and come through the head close to the center.
Sorry I do not have an 8-100 cabriolet.
I do have a 1937 Cord std phaeton and a J Duesenberg project.
Pete

auburnandyscar wrote: @Pete Kelley-he has a "Big eight" cabriolet (8-100)

Pete, isn't an 8-100 a 1931? He has a 1930.

http://restorecarsclassifieds.com/wiki/show_pdf.pdf?n=2720

1929 and 1930 Model 120 and 125 Starting System.

This drawing shows clockwise rotation. This is what I have. I do not think that rotation is the issue.

I see a lot of comments. I will go through them later today and respond.

If the image does not post, cut and paste this link in your browser: restorecarsclassifieds.com/wiki/ ... pdf?n=2720

Thanks
Nick

I don't think there was a big eight in 1932 unless you count the few L-29's in 32.
Cordially Mike

@Pete Kelley-he has a "Big eight" cabriolet (8-100)

I don't recall a 'silent' starter, that was 20 years ago, however i do recall
it was a North East.

Curt did they still have the silent starter in 28, If they did I suppose the starter could be made to run in reverse
K Clark

?What model Auburn do you have?

Do you have quality spark (not just spark) ?
Do you have compression (sounds like you may have in 1, but how about 2-8 - it does not need to be anywhere even close to perfect, but you still need it).
Have you asked why this Auburn fell off the road in the first place (ex. did someone prior to you get the valve timing wrong).
Try some starting fluid as carb may be too far off - be careful with the stuff as bad things happen to people who do not know how to use it properly or actually do not use it properly.

And, I would start from scratch on the timing.

That is my thought Mike. The AutoLite distributors have an arrow on top of the shaft where the felt is indicating direction. I don't know about the Delco's
It is easy to see when the engine is turning over and watch the rotor.

Years ago, I had a 28 Dodge Victory 6. My father-in-law and I were working on the starter and it somehow turned the engine over in the opposite direction. It had something to do with the poliarity in the field coils vs armature. I do remember having two identical starters that spun in opposite directions.

According to my info. the only Auburn distributors that turns clockwise, viewed from the dist. cap end, is the Big Eight used in the 120-125, the L-29 Cord, and the V12. All the other engines dist. turn counterclockwise. I am only talking 1929 to 1936. That's according to my Tune Up Charts.
Cordially Mike

I have good compression and I have gas running on the floor when I pump the gas pedal, choke the car, etc

You said in your first post that you have fuel and spark. That leaves only one component, compression / vacuum. Run a compression check on all cylinders and your problem will be obvious.
Steve Stevens

PS: On a properly operating updraft carburetor, if you choke it and crank it for several seconds without it starting, you will have gas running out on the floor. If not, you have a stopped up carburetor or no compression / vacuum.

My 1930 Auburn rotation is Clockwise and my 1933 Auburn rotation is Counter clockwise.
I tried uploading the schematic that Ivor sent that showed this but had problems uploading image.

By the way: I am still working the issue

Ivor,
Thanks for sending the correct rotation for my 1930
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/111689943310959066457/albums/6087489357386242929/6087489356059960994?pid=6087489356059960994&oid=111689943310959066457

When did the engine rotation change? I know 34-36 is counter-clockwise..d

Don't forget the big and small 8 distributor rotors rotate in different directions.

Thanks Ivor
My rotation is clockwise on the 3 Auburn.

Hello Nick,
i sent Pm not sure if you got it. If you have the distributor cap with the leads out the side you need to use the sketch above as a guide as the leads dont come out in the same order as the vertical type caps, you can easily get the wrong firing order if you just work around the direction of rotation as you would with a vertical lead type cap.

Is the valve timing off? If the valves are not in sync. with the pistons you could feel a pop, but the piston is not at TDC. Maybe some one messed with the timing chain and didn't get it right. I agree with Curt thought, it is probably firing on the exhaust stroke. I have done that myself and swore it was not 180 out, but I was wrong. To satisfy yourself, change the firing 180 and see what happens.
Cordially Mike

When you say that "the rotor is in line with the number one cylinder" you mean that the rotor is lined up to the bottom of the CAP at the number one cylinder firing position right? Also,are the spark plug wire covers installed?
Be certain that the distributor itself moves freely for both advance and retarded as limited by the bolt and slot on the passenger side of the distributor's base.
Better yet,pull out the cotter pin and steering wheel linkage for now and manually retarded the distributor so that you KNOW it is where you want it to fire and try that.

When you mentioned that the distributor had been rebuilt, how far was it taken apart? I ask because one can get the rotor position"off" from the lower gear and slot.(seen this a hundred times.
I will be around all day, and can answer questions if you wish to call me. I will PM you my number.
Andy

I agree that it sounds like I am 180 degrees off but I have done exactly as you suggested as a check. I put my thumb over the hole and when I get a pop, I stop and look at the rotor. The rotor is right in line with the number one cylinder. It is not 180 degrees off. Also, if I short out the number one plug when it is out, I get a spark when the rotor is in the correct position.

Operation #4.
Pull #1 plug.
Remove dist. cap.
Turn the engine over with your thumb over the hole.
Note the position of the rotor when the compression stroke is on top.
I'll bet it is 180 off.

Did you put a little oil in each cylinder.
Just a thought.
John

Thanks for the reply but I do not know how that can be. Please read my explanation on how I obtained the correct position. Do you see anything in my procedure that is wrong?

It may be 180 degrees out of time.

I recently purchased a 1930 Auburn Cabriolet 8 cylinder car that has not run for many years. I am having problems starting the car. If anyone has any ideas on what I need to look for to get it to start, please advise. This is everything that I have done so far:
1) rebuilt my Schebler model S carburetor (updraft)
2) new Coil
3) Dual point distributor synchronized and checked out
4) Piston number 1 brought to top dead center and verified with mark on flywheel 1/8. I then went 3 teeth on the flywheel past top dead center with spark lever fully retarded per Auburn manual
5) Adjusted distributor until one set of points just begin to open
6) Pulled Spark plug #1 with distributor wire, shorted the plug on the side of the block and turned engine over. I am getting spark and as a double check, I put my finger over the spark plug hole. At the point that I felt a pop on my finger I saw a spark on the plug.
7) To assure that I do not have a fuel pump issue, I have an auxiliary fuel pump the goes from a gas can to the carburetor.
<!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> I also bypassed the ignition switch with a small on/off switch
9) New six volt battery
10) Verified that all 8 wires are in the appropriate order from the distributor
11) When I manually press the starter lever, the car cranks but does not fire. I have used starting fluid and also put a few drops of fuel down spark plug hole number 1.

I do not get a pop or an explosion of any kind. It almost seems like the car is not anywhere near top dead center but I know it is. I am getting fuel and spark. What is missing and what should I try next? I appreciate any help.