V12 Salon Sedans

Tell that to Mike H., he's the one who said it was the sedan a couple pages back!

Justin, you said you knew of 5 sedans based on your reseach, can you peg down their current locations?

Chris,

The Bools/Parfet car is a Brougham (2 door sedan in Auburnspeak)

Is the 'Roxas' car a 2 door or 4 door?

I just picked up a mixed bag of 1970s issues of "The Classic Car." The September 1973 issue shows a 1934 Auburn V-12 Salon Sedan on the rear cover, a 99.75-point car (then) restored and owned by Fran Roxas. This obviously isn't the Quick car, and I thought that the Bools/Parfet car was unrestored before Parfet bought it? Someone correct me if I'm wrong in thinking this is a third car.

Justin, The answer is quite simple. Figure out your top 3 or 4 ACD cars and buy them all. I love the mix of Auburns that I have and enjoy each one for different reasons. The 32 boattail is one of the prettiest, most desireable cars to own and is rarely traded between owners. The 12 Salon Phaeton (or any 12 Salon) is rare and extremely valueable. Of course the 35 Sedan with the huge airhorns is a great driver and party wagon. Dang, I keep getting in trouble with those airhorns on a regular basis. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> Just jump into the pool and never look back. See you soon, Craig

If the wheelbase is long enough almost any car will ride good.

Having a dad that is younger than a majority of club members (early 70's), I will tell you he appreciates my choice in a 1935 Auburn 851 Phaeton (non-supercharged). I attribute Coker radial tires to a superior feel, but I installed Goodyears bias-ply on the 35 851 Sedan and I never complained, nor have I heard new owner complain about ride. I like to say it is not much different from a new car other than no A/C, a crackly sound from the radio, and a turning radious of a football field. By the way - cavernous trunk. All metal body construction is nice as well. Top takes 2 men, a boy, and a trained monkey - thus it is either down for days/weeks or up for days/weeks at a time.

Kellie,

The S/C Westchester is my favorite form of 810/812 Cord. I would love to own one someday.

But you're certainly right about the space. A fine tour car for 2 but not an option for 4 without a trailer or bustleback or something to add more cargo space.

Justin

Justin,

I do know that the Cord 810/812 is a much more "modern" riding car than the early Auburns. Our shop recently helped complete a restoration on a '37 S/C Westchester Sedan, and it was surprising how comfortable it was to ride in. However, I can't speak to how it drives. Again, the drawback would be the limited trunk space as this is not a bustleback model.

Hi Kellie,

Thanks for your input - it is good to hear. I'm sure the search will be widened due to rarity of the V-12 Salon closed cars so all thoughts are appreciated. Having ridden in an 810 I would also wager it is more comfortable to ride in than the more traditional early 30's cars. But comfort and handling is only part of the equation. It really comes down to what ultimately my dad wants and can actually acquire.

I look forward to seeing your car at the Reunion this year!

Thanks!
Justin

Justin,

Having just driven a V-12 Auburn Salon Sedan for the first time this spring as well as the V-12 Salon Boattail last weekend, I can honestly tell you that there may very well be better touring cars out there. Both cars are very heavy in the front end, obviously making turning and handling more difficult than it needs to be. Another drawback in my book is the dual carbs which make the pedal extremely stiff which would become tiresome on long trips.

Brad and I just completed a 700+ mile trip in the Coupe - '35 851. Honestly, this is the best touring car that we have access to. There is plenty of trunk space (even for how I pack) and the steering seemed very agile after driving the V-12s. For the two of us, it is great-I can help spot for the blind spots and air circulation is great on hot days. I know that the Salon is difficult to beat in terms of looks, but I would highly recommend "test" driving different vehicles before making the commitment. Just as an aside - the 851 also got approximately 17+ mpg on this trip, and we've been told that the V12s are not fuel efficient.

Good luck in your search.

Just a little bump to say that we are still searching for a 33 or 34 V-12 Salon Sedan. There are certainly many other worthy cars out there, but this is the top of our list and it will take some time to exhaust all leads.

Any information or tips or stories are greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Justin

I find it hard to believe that my 12 Salon Sedan is the other existing car of the two but maybe so.... since I've never seen another one beside Bill's. As far as driving, it is an exceptional tour car. I personally think that the 2 speed rear end puts more available torque and power on the ground at any speed. What I mean by this is that with so many "gears" to choose you can keep the engine in its correct torque curve very easily and keep horsepower on the ground. This is unlike the KB V12 Lincolns, V12 Packards, Caddies and other classics that we have owned and driven. Even with "high speed" rear ends, They will lug in city traffic. With stock rear ends, often in high 4 to 5 ratios, you can't do highway speeds. That Columbia 2 speed and 160 HP 12 make my car an awesome tour car. Only my Dad's Duesy has the power to keep up with my Auburn through the whole driving range because it can handle higher RPM's that most classics can't. We have put at least 60,000 tour miles on the Sedan since my Dad bought it in 1959. Only our KB Lincoln has more tour miles and that was only because of the 7 passenger size for luggage!

On a sad note... I wonder how many perfectly good sedans were destroyed into speedsters in the Dark years of Classic cars. It's a shame that more didn't survive. That is one reason that I vow not to restore my car and keep it original as long as possible. Other than drivetrain other needed maintenance.

The Salons are pretty rare in either 8 or 12 versions, but I have to believe the mechanical elements for the eight are a lot easier to come by.

Great feedback everyone - and much appreciated!

Bill you're certainly right, there is no comparison in cost. But then one could argue the same cost differential between the V12 Salon and a J. In this case the rarer car is clearly not the more valuable for whatever reason.

It would be really great if the Cords just had more room. Now I know why some pull trailers behind them! The perfect solution would be for me to retire early next year and drive a mule 810/812 to carry the gear/luggage for my father's passengers. Dare to dream!

The 8 cylinder Auburn Salon Sedans have been suggested. Are they really more plentiful and less expensive? Are parts that much more available?

Thanks,
Justin

They ride like a truck...a really, really, really fast truck.

Chris Summers wrote: My first and so far only ride in an 810 left me grinning ear-to-ear and babbling like an idiot. I have never been in a better-riding, more comfortable old car. And that's coming from a Duesenberg guy.

Chris, I don't think anybody has ever confused a Duesenberg with a nice riding car .

My first and so far only ride in an 810 left me grinning ear-to-ear and babbling like an idiot. I have never been in a better-riding, more comfortable old car. And that's coming from a Duesenberg guy.

Justin Kerns wrote: Oneof the finalists is a V12 Salon Sedan.

He is also a big fan of 810/812 Cords (closed cars) but the main concern there is interior & luggage space..

Thanks to all for any input!
Justin Kerns

Your dad should be able to buy 5 810/812 Cords for about the price of that V12 Salon Sedan. He should have all the trunk space he needs then! You just need to put 4 drivers on the payroll.

Bill Bools car is now Bill Parfets car. Thus only one car not two.
CORDially Mike

John,

I'm aware of 5 V12 salon sedans based on my very amateur research. I am talking about 4 door sedans, not 2 door.

Thanks,
Justin

Hello,

Scott, Yes correct relation. Ann &amp; Jeff Schrock are my sister &amp; brother-in-law and Jeff's cousin is Mark - and his wife Katy (small world).

I would like to have a discussion about Salon Sedans and 1/4 windows. The conversation leads me to believe that we are talking about a 4 door Close Coupled sedan (like a L-29 Cord 4 door brougham) or are we talking about 2 door Brougham (of which I believe more than 2 survive but of which are almost nonexistant beyond perhaps 3 or 4). The reason why I ask is that I know Tom Quick drives a V-12 4 door Salon Sedan and it has 1/4 windows, as does Bill Parfet, and Bill Bools use to have one so that is already more than 2 (plus there has to be others). Would anyone have a picture of what is in the discussion that 2 survive if indeed it is close coupled - My Don Butlet ACD (complete history) book does not show such a beast without 1/4 windows ? Thanks

mikespeed35 wrote: It's bustleback Chris. Humpback is a whale. No pun intended.
I thought I would beat Josh.
CORDially Mike

I knew that... <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->

At least I didn't call it a hunchback!

It's bustleback Chris. Humpback is a whale. No pun intended.
I thought I would beat Josh.
CORDially Mike

"Standard" Beverlys do not have a longer wheelbase. Custom Beverlys (Beverlies? sp?) and Custom Berlines do: seven inches longer, in the rear seat area. Customs came with the humpback trunk lid, which also found its way onto some "standard" Cord sedans too.

The easiest way to tell a Custom is by the number of louvers on the front end: eight rather than the usual seven.

Lots of good feedback thanks. I did not realize the Beverlys had a longer wheelbase in addition to the bustle-back. I also did not realize that non-Salon Auburn sedans also had the rear quarter glass. That is a nice feature for passengers on a tour.

Much to consider. More thoughts?

Justin

I think you are actually right with the relation - Sister's Husband's Cousin's Wife's Brother. Katy and Mark Cripe, right?

Anyway, I feel like a intruder talking Cord in the Auburn forum <!-- s:oops: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarassed" /><!-- s:oops: -->

A nice appeal of the Cord (to me) is getting them better than when they were new, mechanically at least. Mine's got the Richardson CV conversion - a world of difference for drivability.

Scott, Dad may be warming up to Cords and I believe that has to do with Don Wohlwend. Prior to spending time with Don, you should have heard the static about Cords every time I mentioned one (and Dad is as good an Engineer as they come).

Hey Scott,

Small world (Scott is my Sister's Husband's Cousin's Wife's Brother). Sorry we did not have a chance to talk more at Auburn. I like the Cord - you did it the justice it deserves in getting it back on the road

I think Dad just does not like the drivability of an early 30's car when compared to a mid 30's car (and for that matter a 40's car). The 30 Franklin was a beast on the road and it was just as good a day when it left as when it arrived (and we had one of the more drivable Franklins and it was driven always verses trailered). Auburn 12 has good HP so that is a plus over most other cars of same era and as it is a cheaper car probably has the same qualities as the 851 in being lighter resulting in handling fairly well. Only real fault in 851 is that it has the turning radius of a football field.

Cord trunk is great - Auburn 851 Sedan and Phaeton w/accessory trunk add on/ and sidemounts are also amazing and a super plus as far as any car goes no matter what year or make.

JMM

If your Dad is concerned about 810/12 interior and luggage space - look at the 812 Custom Beverly - it addresses both the interior with a stretched wheelbase and the trunk with the bustle-back extension.

(I'll head back to my Cord forum now)

Scott

Hello,

Put a check mark next to my name as someone also looking for a Salon Special 12 Sedan or a 12 Custom Sedan. Everyone says I am nuts and should stick with the 851 852 cars (and propably will do another Phaeton or Cabriolet), but I do love a good early 30's sedan or convertible sedan and the Auburn V-12 has a ton of appeal whether an open or a closed car.

JMM
John M. Mereness
<a href="mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]

The "standard" Auburn 12 sedans will also have the rear quarter windows, a definite plus if you like driving the car. They aren't quite as rare as the Salons.

Why not an 850Y, 851, 852? Auburn Sedan. They are just as dependable, have the Dual Ratio, Bendix brakes, the quarter windows and legroom.
They are around and parts are available.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the input. I knew they were rare, but didn't realize *that* rare! That makes a J look downright common!

In my online research I have found evidence of 2 so far, so I assumed there were more out there. But perhaps not.....

Incidentally I'm in Zeeland on a regular basis for work (our factory is there). Maybe I'll run into you sometime!

Justin

The Auburn V-12 Salon Sedan is the hardest salon to find. I think there are two in existance. Tell your dad to look for something else. If I am wrong about the two in existance some one will correct me.
CORDially Mike

I'm gathering information, experience and thoughts on these cars and appreciate all input. My father is about to retire and narrowing down his choice of a good tour car. He is a big ACD fan and one of the finalists is a V12 Salon Sedan.

He wants a sedan for comfort and room for 4 passengers + luggage (trunk). The Salon Sedans also have the rear quarter windows which is good for visibility from the rear seat. Hydraulic brakes and the 2 speed rear end are additional positive points.

He is also a big fan of 810/812 Cords (closed cars) but the main concern there is interior &amp; luggage space. Any input on how the 2 vehicles compare would be very helpful.

These Auburns don't seem to be very common, are they exceedingly difficult to find? Does anyone have experience or thoughts about touring and driving these cars regularly? My father is open to restoring a car but would prefer to find one already restored or an older restoration that can be freshened up a bit. He has done the 100 point show winner thing with other vehicles and the focus for this car will be touring.

Thanks to all for any input!
Justin Kerns

For reference here is a list of cars that he is seriously considering - sedans only:
Auburn V12 Salon (33-34 preferred)
Packard V12 (32-34)
Lincoln V12 (32-34)
Cord 810/812
Pierce-Arrow V12 (32-34)
Stutz DV32 (31-35)

And less excited about but still considering:
Cadillac V12 or V16
Marmon 16