Early Speedster Differences?

I agree Mike, I have more questions than answers. I just made a quote from the factory literature "Parts list Auburn 851 Supercharged models"

Since the engines were not used in sequential order I'm confused how the engine no. would play a part in the determination. If a engine was used in speedster no. 60 , for example, that was before engine no. 4284 they certainly wouldn't change the hood, but simply change the manifold.
CORDially Mike

Mike, Why don't you contact John Ehresman. He is a club member and a very knowlageable on Auburns. I would also suggest contacting Randy Ema.

Sorry, just reread my last post. By "represented to be" I wasn't doubting John's claim, only saying that I had no knowledge personally..

We bought a car that was represented as #1 from John Ehresman, and we restored it for a client - if you see it out there it is distinctive in that its paint is closer to white than cigarette cream, which was based on color matching samples of original paint. It had the early manifolds, and the supercharged logo below the body molding, and a diffent side grill to accomodate the angled pipes. Now, I have no ideaa what made this number one - and don't have the numbers any more. We have also owned and resold what were represented as #7 (indeed restored by John), and #9.

All of this implies that somewhere there exists a list of speedsters from which these determinations are being made. Does anyone out there have that list? Or know how many of these first ten cars survive? And how does 33001E fit into this? Were the first ten pre production prototypes, and 33001E the first production car? Or what?

Mysteries abound...

Cheers,
Mike

John Ehresman once told me that the the first ten cars were equipped with the early style manifolds. He restored #1 & #9. The book says the early intake and exhaust were used to engine 4284.

Hi Mike. I looked back through my pictures of 35 Speedsters. I found two cars that I have records of that are 32869E and 32910E that are earlier than yours that both have regular production hoods. I don't represent myself as guru of speedsters, that's just what I found. Using the lower manifold would really mess up the hood lines. The raising of the rear ports makes up for the rear slope of the motor in the chassis thus making the hood break line between the top section and the bottom section straight. Other wise the break line would slope down to meet the rear ports, which wouldn't look good. I have never saw a Speedster with a hood like that.
CORDially Mike

Yes, Mike, mine has the standard manifold, same as yours. I would have to agree with Al: The throttle linkage is very tight, and the best way for the factory to get around it would be to change the height of the manifold. Otherwise, that complicated linkage would have to be redesigned.

Mark

Chris Summers wrote: Cool. I've never seen one like that before. Why was it changed for the later cars? Aesthetics or practical purposes?

I'm guessing it's both. To level the pipes coming through the hood and to clear the accelerator linkage. Perhaps Curt or someone else can chime in.

Hi Al:
Interesting. So back to my question - does anyone know at what point the change was made from the early to late style manifold?
Cheers,
Mike

Cool. I've never seen one like that before. Why was it changed for the later cars? Aesthetics or practical purposes?

Here is a picture of a early manifold. Note that the back ports are level with the front ports. This is coming off for a later manifold.

My car 33027 has the rear exhaust manifold ports higher to match the line of the hood. Speedster 33026 ( X S.Ray Miller car) also has the ports higher to match the hood line. What about yours Mark 33025? It is interesting that these three cars are consecutive.
CORDially Mike

I'll try to grab a picture of the manifold. The difference is in the last set of ports which is lower and matches the horizon of the other ports. If you look at any of the later cars you will see that the last flange is up higher then the rest.

My car is definitely an early body - you can see in the photos I posted on Flickr (see above) where they hammered down the old belt line and made the new one in lead. I recall another early car (which at the time I was told was the first one built) that had the supercharged logo below the belt, not above. I seem to recall that also meant that the manifolds had to kink downward to exit through the side grill, which was also lower as a result. My car has neither of these features, but it appears that it had a minor front end collision (minor because they didn't bother to fix the kink in the front crossmember). However, that did require work to the front fenders and rad shell to make them fit the (now) narrower space. There is no sign of repairs to the hood, so I suspect they may have been replaced as it would have been easier to do. Finally, if they replaced the hoods, almost for sure they would have used normal production ones, which would mean that the manifolds would also have required changing. So, we're back to figuring out how early this car is to determine if it should have had the early manifolds and other early features. Any further enlightenment?

AJ, What funky exhaust manifold are you speaking of?
CORDially Mike

Chris: The only difference that I know is: The early bodies had a belt line that had to be hammered out and leaded-in. Paul Briant showed me that little quirk when he was certifying the car. Evidence of the old belt line can be seen by pulling back the kick panel and looking behind it. BTW, I was amazed at how well Paul was able to crawl around inside that little space. He is very limber!

Mark

Mike,

If your car is one of earliest does it still have the original funky exhaust manifold special to the first cars? If not I happen to have one .

A.J.

So Mark, is yours of the first 50 too, with 1934 bodies?

That would make an interesting Newsletter article, on the differences--kind of like comparing Cord Handbuilts to the later sedans.

Hi Mike, I made a couple errors in my post. Yours is obviously not the earliest one known being 33001. I see that you did give the body no. Our two cars were made very close to each other. Mine being vin 33027E engine GH 4324. Marks car is 33025E so they must have made several speedsters that day.
CORDially Mike

Hi Mike The unit no. for the first 35 Auburn produced would be 1. 2001 would be the 2001 Auburn produced. There was no special unit numbers just for speedsters. The first 35 Auburn produced would have vin. number 31001. The Club has a informal list of speedsters and the earliest vin. on the list is 32050E with engine GH3341 body no. U47 200. Yours could be the earliest one known. I don't think there is a way to know if it the first one produced. Do you have a body no? The body on my car is U47 147, which is the earliest one known. That really doesn't mean much because they didn't take the bodies in order. Hope this helps.
CORDially Mike

Hello all...

Sorry about this - in my last post I included the numbers from my car, but I was working from memory - with predictable results. In actual fact, of course, my chassis/unit number is 2001, and the VIN is 33001E. Additionally, engine number is GH4297, Body No. U47-191.

Cheers,
Mike

Mike F: Looks like you've got yourself a real find! There might have been a speedster built before yours, but it seems like yours is the first production model. I'd be interested in seeing more pictures, especially of the big hole in your firewall. Trying to figure out what that might be... I'd be willing to help you in some way if you need any pictures or info.

On another subject: Mike H, your speedster must have been built soon after mine. My serial # is 33025! Close siblings.

Mark

Hello all:

Thank you for your help on my last post concerning my early speedster.

After further research, I'm wondering if this could in fact be the first 851 speedster built? The ACD paperwork refers to it as one of the original "show cars", though I don't know where that comment comes from.

However, the car's VIN number is 32001E, frame no. 1001. Wouldn't that make it the first 851 Speedster built?

Curiouser and curiouser, it seems.

Cheers,
Mike

Hi Mike,I have seen a Supercharger housings with a brass plate with a serial no. in the 10xx numbers. My orig. housing has no.1102 with no brass plate and no holes for the plate. The funky valve on your carb. bowl is a new one on me. My car is black also. I did as you and restored it mechanicaly and have put 3000 miles on it last year. It is a nice driving car.
CORDially Mike

Thanks for your input everyone. Although my objective is to return the car to running condition - and bring it to the ACD festival, what I'm doing is not a restoration as such. I just want to fix everythign mechanically and electrically, make it safe to drive, and replace as many of the incorrect stuff as I can. Cosmetically I'm not planning to do much at this point anyway.

If anyone's interested, I've posted photos of the car as it is on Flickr. You can see them by clicking on the link below, or if it won't work, type it into your browser.

www.flickr.com/photos/carsrule

Cheers,
Mike

Auburn speedsters used six cylinder dash inserts.

There is no part number in the book for a speedster map light or any mention in the accessories book. I have been told that some restoration shops put a map light in the hole because:

a- They didn?t have the dummy lock .

b- The speedster didn?t have a map light and it was appropriate.



When speedsters came equipped with a clock only, they used the standard six cylinder dash inserts with a dummy lock p/n G5470 & G5546.

If a speedster came with a radio, they had to make a new dash insert, then eliminating the unwanted hole p/n G5524.



Please be mindful that I am only interested in how the cars were delivered from the dealer.

Hi MIke, It has been pointed out to me that the speedster glove box cover may have a map light instead of a plug where the lock was. Is there anyone else who would like to weigh in on this question?
CORDially Mike

Hi Mike, I have a similar car to yours serial no. 33027E body U47-147. Also a 1933 body. The mirror on my car is mounted in the conventional place on the center windshild post.
The dashes on the speedsters where not hindged and the lock hole is filled by a plug.
The two holes in the dash are for a clock and the radio head.
I presume the 12" hole you are talking about is in the firewall, not the dash as you said. There is no such hole in my car in eather the dash or firewall. You must keep in mind that I am not claiming my car is right and yours is wrong, only that they differ. Hope this helps in some way.
CORDially Mike

I'm restoring a "barn find" 1935 Auburn 851 Boattail Speedster. It is one of the first 50 cars built from leftover '34 bodies. I'm the third owner. Harry Bragg in CA bought the car from the original owner, and I bought it from the Bragg family. The car was (and is) an excellent CA car, with no bad metal or wood, and all original stampings nice and clear. However, it had a dash fire in 1960 and has been sitting ever since. It was partly taken apart, and some things have gone missing, and others have been replaced, but I'm not sure if what I have is correct, so I have a few questions:

1) Is there a list of differences between early and late cars? Sort of like the things we know about early and late Cord 810/812 production, like glove box handles, ribs on the steering wheel, etc.

2) The mirror I have would mount on the top of the dash but not on the windshield center post. Which is correct?

3) Not sure if the glove box is original - the car does not have evidence of ever having hinges on it but the glove box has a hole for a lock/handle. What should I have?

4) There are actually two glove box covers - one has a single center mounted hole for the clock, and the other has two holes, for the clock and, I assume, for the tachometer.

5) on the engine side of the firewall is a large (approx 12") hole in the dash with a cover over it that has all the ridges in it that the cowl does. Any idea what this is for?

Cheers,
Mike