New Interior for 851/2 replica

There were twenty plus manufactures of reproduction Auburn speedsters thru the years, and no two are alike. For original cars, all gauges in front of the driver were the same. All speedsters had a clock. The radio was an option. Back in the 70's Glenn Pray built and sold as kits 17 (or so) cars with real steel bodies, fenders etc. They had an original straight eight with a Switzer-Cummins Supercharger. The gauges are Stewart Warner, the clock is Borg. These cars do come up for sale from time to time.

SECTION 3: DASHBOARD & INSTRUMENTATION

In this section I will discuss the Dashboard layout and Instrumentation. I will show the original design and then discuss alternatives for Replica car owners. Most of our replicas were built in the 1970’s and 1980’s, when the choice of instrumentation was pretty basic. The aftermarket industry today is much greater than it was back then. Many replica cars have various types of gauges used but I note many had basic Stewart Warner gauges but there are a whole range of other providers that were used. In my case, my car was equipped with AutoMeter gauges. The thing to remember with gauges is that the sensors must match the calibration of the gauges. If you change your gauges you may need to change other aspects of your car to ensure the gauges work properly. Let’s start by looking at an original interior in the photo below.
Note the following info relating to the original....

1) there are 2 large gauges in the panel in front of the driver and one smaller gauge. The photo shows what each gauge does. Each large gauge (on drivers side) is 4 & 5/8 inches in diameter while the smaller middle gauge is 2 & 7/8 Inches in diameter. These dimensions are important if you are trying to replicate the layout of the original, even if you are using alternative instruments. You may find it difficult to match the exact size of these instruments with alternatives in the aftermarket industry. There are however sizes that are close as you can find many instruments that are 4 & 3/8 inch diameter (little smaller) and many instruments that are 2 & 5/8 inches

2) there are either 1 or 2 gauges in the panel in front of the passenger. One for a radio (if fitted) and the other for a clock. All Speedsters had clocks, but I understand the radio was an option. All original gauges were actually made by Stewart Warner (except the clock), although there is no labeling on the instrument faces. These gauges are unique to Auburn. They come up for sale occasionally so are therefore difficult to acquire in a hurry.....you will need to scour Ebay etc and collect them over the months/years.

The size of the clock is 2 & 7/8 Inches in diameter and the size of the radio is ??????? Inches in diameter

3) note the 3 knobs and one Toggle switch surrounds the tachometer on the driver side. The Choke knob obviously is not required on most replicas because most of our engines have automatic chokes rather than manual chokes. The Gas knob essentially is an idle control (to freeze revs at a certain level) which once again is not required on a replica, while the Light Knob obviously controls the Headlights. The chrome Toggle switch controls the fog lights if you have them. There are many ways you could wire your ighting on your car, so this is an area where you could repurpose these switches to control what is relevant to your replica. If you are using an original instrument background panel (metal plate with stripes), you can use the area designated for these 4 switches as switches, or you can place small turn signal lights, high beam lights, or a combination of switches and lights.

4) note that the background panel (Dash Insert) which surrounds the instruments (and has the stripes going along it) were previously available new - but now no longer. Good luck trying to buy them. If you do manage to get hold of some, be aware that you should try and get matching sized instruments so as to match the pre-cut holes for the instruments. Alternatively, you may need to buy some engine turned aluminum and cut out holes to match instrument size.
Regards Jerome

TBC

No movement on orig. seats in orig. speedsters.
CORDiallyMike

The leather is not hand painted. It is pressed into the leather. This is true with the copper color speedster. Tom Haartz as the ability to do that . All speedster interiors are not necessarily like that .

Curt
The black interior you have done certainly looks magnificent and is the first and only interior door card and seat that looks completely authentic to me. I’m sure there are others but no doubt it’s rare. What a wonderful reference photo.
Thankyou for confirming there are 13 panels in the original design of the seat. It is difficult to see in the earlier grey looking original interior because the photo is taken from the side. So 13 panels it is. For replicas, it may depend how wide their seat is as to how 13 panels look. They may have to compromise as I have done.

Your photos provide an additional reference point for interior door handle placement. I can see that they point downward at approximately a 45 degree angle. Interior door handles in replicas will of course vary in style to the original shown here. In fact I picked handles from an early ford Victoria, which I thought was a sympathetic design to the original. These ford style handles have a square shaft rather than a spline so the position of the handle is dictated by that and is far less adjustable than a spline. I’m not sure whether the original Auburn door interior door handle has a spline

I also note the pattern in the leather coloring. I was not aware that Auburn Leather was handpainted to give a mottled look. I have spent many years Restoring Rolls-Royce and Bentley interiors and they never used a mottled paint finish....so I am learning something new. For example a mid 1930’s Bentley is known as a Derby Bentley. Their Leather was a uniform color but had a wash of black leather color which was wiped on top of the main color and then immediately washed off so that it was retained within the natural leather grain low points. Connolly leather referred to that finish as Luxan.
Regards Jerome

What is difficult to discern in the picture of the copper speedster interior is the
pattern in the leather. it was no small task to reproduce that.

I am very familiar with the speedster that you post the seat picture of. It belongs to a personal friend of mine. That car was in my shop for a few months. Both the backrest and seat have 13 pleats. The original color is black.

Another thing you will notice when comparing photos is the location of the horizontal large strip of leather varies. If you look at the original grey colored interior the large horizontal strip on the bottom cushion goes about 45% into the depth of the seat, whereas the rear cushion has a strip about 33% into the cushion surface. This is rarely replicated in my observation, and was certainly not done in my seat. I kept these horizontal strips to approx 30% of visible surface are on top and bottom cushions. I felt that looked a bit better.....but it’s once again a small change, and personal preference.
Regards Jerome

So now, assuming you want to continue to go down the path of replicating a seat design that is pretty close to the original, like I have, you may need to make a few more decisions. If you are going to do the pleated design (as I did) your upholsterer will want to know how many pleats to have in the design. My seat has 12 pleats in total on both the bottom cushion and the back cushion plus one large strip that goes across the seat cushion (on each cushion). There is some confusion in my mind on this. When I look at original grey looking old leather interior photo I posted earlier and shown again below, it appears to have 12 thin strips of leather (which is what I modeled my interior off). But I have seen quite a few other interiors that have 13 panels. In fact, 13 panels appears in a drawing below that was created by a motor trimmer many years ago and was supposedly correct. Maybe Curt or some other club specialist can confirm their thoughts. In my case, each pleat is approximately 3 inches wide with the outer 2 pleats being nearly 4 inches.
Regards Jerome

Below is a photo of the interior of a Speedster replica that is currently for sale. I absolutely dislike this interior....both the modern seat design and the modern door card design. To me, it appears to be totally out of character to the design of the rest of the car.....which is superb. To me, this treatment of the interior is like buying an Edwardian period house and then fitting the interior with modern furniture...I just don’t think it goes together. Now I’m expressing a personal opinion here. The seats may certainly be very functional and comfortable, but I just don’t believe it’s a good choice to match the elegant design of the magnificent body of this car which was designed in the 1930’s. I see similar mistakes in instrumentation, steering wheel selection, and steering columns used in some replicas. I generally believe the less a replica looks of the 1930’s period, the less it is worth on the car market,
Regards Jerome

Now below is a design that is Not original. It is of the period, and I believe is sympathetic to the period of the car....which is a good thing. Once again, personal preference plays a role here. I prefer to replicate something close to original, but I still think this is an acceptable choice for a replica.
Regards Jerome

Here is the second, typically earlier design. If I’m correct, the customer may have picked either design...not sure, but the important thing is there are 2 basic designs that you can replicate if you are trying to be original.
This second design, with flat panels of leather, was a technique that was used among fine coach builders around the world. In fact, I owned a Bentley with the same design. One of the reasons the style became out of favor was the expense in creating the seat. A large flat panel of leather requires a large high quality hide. It is often difficult to get large pieces of leather without flaws....and there is a lot of wastage.....this is ultimately why pleats became a more practical alternative for car builders.
It really is a personal preference as to what you like. I prefer the pleated seats (marginally) over the plain design
Regards Jerome

Once again, for comparative purposes, here is an original seat. 35/36 Speedsters had 2 different designs. My seat is modeled of the late 35 or 1936 style that has pleats in the cushion. The other design used flat leather without pleats. I will show both original designs
Regards Jerome

SECTION 2: SEAT
Attached is a photo of the car seat I have just built. It is once again very sympathetic to the original car seat design, but does differ a little due to practical issues and personal preferences. I will discuss the differences shortly. I should say, this car seat is based on a Ford car bench seat which has been shortened to fit the cabin of a Speedster. I did not do that, but the manufacturer Elegant Motors did. I could tell it was a shortened seat because of the weld marks on the frame once I pulled the seat apart. This particular seat is on tracks, which allow you to move the seat forward or backwards by lifting a lever on the side of the seat. The seat also tilts forward by moving another lever on the side of the back cushion which is useful to access the storage area behind the seat. Both features are desirable and practical. I do not know what functionality the original seats had in terms of moving them forward and backwards, or tilting the back cushion forward.....(Note: Mike in a later post tell us the original car does not have the ability to move the seat forward or backwards, and the original seat does not tilt either)
Regards Jerome

Curt
That’s very interesting, and it’s great to have a guy like yourself contribute to this discussion.. I think I will have a separate posting on wheels for replicas, and we can consider different styles and approaches in that. I’m sure you will have plenty to contribute. What I am hoping to do is to create an archive of sorts for replica owners to be educated on originality of various features of the car’s, and then to consider whether they want to retrofit original equipment (which I think is always desirable if you can afford it and if it’s available) or a suitably sympathetic alternative. I think I’d like to keep each Topic Thread on this website on point, and not depart from the topic in discussion. That way it becomes a concise reference point for others. This topic is 35/36 interiors, so I’d like to continue on that, and suggest I now post some information on the car seat.

I really wanted to write a series of articles in the ACD magazine, but after correspondence with our current ACD President, and the President before that, it appears the ACD magazine only discusses articles on original car’s......I think a very disappointing aspect of the club for a member like myself.....it stems I understand from the original documentation and creation of the club which states it relates to the preservation of original cars. I honestly don’t know why they don’t consider changing the charter of the club, I’ve done that before in other clubs, but that is for the leaders of the club to consider. So, instead I will use this forum of a way of providing information to replica owners on originality, and practical departures they might make to achieve a practical yet high standard. It will also be a useful source of info to new buyers of replicas so they can determine how accurate the replica is......if that is important to them. I absolutely hate some replicas that depart radically from original, where they mix overly modern style components with the original 1930’s design of the car......and are just plain ugly in their treatment of various features on a car.
Regards Jerome

A few years ago there were two guys in Sweden that went the extra mile to make their cars original. They converted the hubs so they could run Motor Wheel wire wheels then they could install real Auburn hubcaps. They converted the dash to utilize correct Auburn gauges. All four pipes exited on the LH side, Stabil-light headlights and more. It is safe to say those cars are real foolers.

Curt
That’s marvelous! Thanks so much for either digging out the photo, or, going to the effort of making a new photo of an original interior....brilliant. I think this photo proves the 3 decorative lines at the top of the panel DO match the curve of the top of the door, AND they DO have a hard edge at the point they turn. It also shows the top line of the flap does broadly match the shape of the top of the door, but it is still fairly straight. It’s interesting that the top of the flap appears to be sewn down onto the panel with a brass fixing point on either end. I have not yet seen this on any car out there today (I’d say almost all cars have been redone without this feature).
Lastly, the red color Appears to be a darkish shade but it is not as dark as my wine/burgundy color.

Curt....thanks so much for getting that photo. This is very helpful to recording originality. Well done!
Regards Jerome

This is an original speedster door panel . There were small differences in the way they were sewn. When the cars come together, it is pretty easy to separate the fly specks from the pepper.

Thanks for info on leather colors. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to respond given your extensive expertise. That gives us all a guide as to the original broad palette of colors....but as we all know, colors vary tremendously. For example, as you can see in earlier pictures my car has been done in a leather color called “Wine” and is essentially a burgundy color. Is that red? Does that match the original factory color or is it way off.....who knows?

Does any person in the ACD club, to your knowledge have definitive expertise on interiors. Presumably our ACD club has judges of authenticity ....because it is hard to judge a concours without knowing the facts. That being said, I have owned very rare Rolls Royce and Bentley motor cars, and I know for a fact that the expertise in concours judging does not exist in many of the various clubs....particularly in interiors.

Now I have an Elegant Motors Speedster replica, so obviously that car doesn’t count in terms of originality. It’s a very well built replica, but It will never be in an ACD concours. I’m just trying to produce a car that’s sympathetic to the original.....in a sense it pays homage. So I guess I’m suggesting that the best we Replica car owners can do is produce an interior that makes us individually happy, but is sympathetic to the original. If we understand the original features, we can make reasoned judgements over departures from the original.
Regards Jerome

To the best of my knowledge: red ,black , cream , green , blue. I do have an original top and interior that was removed from a speedster years ago. I will reserve comment on hard or soft turns etc. .

Curt
Thanks for your reply and contributing to the discussion. I’m not surprised Salmon was not an original color of leather from the factory. I personally think it looks great on that particular car, as it contrasts well to the sage colored paint....and was clearly an owners choice.
1) Can you tell us what were the original leather colors from the factory?
2) re the differing features I have highlighted in several door card photos (eg 1: the shape of the 3 lines, do they have a hard or soft turn on original car’s etc), as a very experienced ACD member and expert, what is your view on what is original.
Regards Jerome

The factory never used the salmon color leather / vinal for speedsters or any other 34-36 Auburn.

I have seen the "T" nails on ebay but they are not on know.

Here is another apparently original car with a redone interior. Here it has the hard edge turn on the 3 line decoration, but it has a metal retainer clip for the flap in the door. I believe Burco retainer clips were used on other Auburns, but not on the 35/36 Speedster. At least that’s what I understand from my research. Since completing my door card I can see why a metal retaining button was used in this salmon colored interior- it is because the flap has a tendency to float outwards due to the shape of the door and if the flap has been folded over itself at the top....creating a bulkiness in the leather which encourages the flap to open. I may be installing one of these retainer buttons myself even though it is not original.
Regards Jerome

Here is another reference photo which is good for referencing the original door card ( and seat pattern that we will get to later). This photo was generously forwarded to me by another ACD club member and is apparently of an absolutely original speedster interior. Given this, I based my door card closer to this original interior. If you are reading this, and planning to redo your own interior, you will need to make judgements over these features and what you are seeking to replicate
Regards Jerome

This photo is of an apparently original car with a redone interior. The car sports a badge on the dashboard that is from Villa D’Este, a very prestigious concourse event held in Italy. Yet the car has a few features on the door cards that differ to what I built and differ to other apparently original cars. This is always the challenge in restoration, finding what is truly original as a reference point. I attach some highlighted differences below, and attach another reference photo from another original car in a later post below.
Regards Jerome

Here is a photo of the T nail
Regards Jerome

Mike
Mike. I certainly considered these “T” nails which go into the outer edge of the door in the top corners but decided not to do so for two reasons...
1) I don’t know where to buy them....do you? As it is your suggestion, maybe you do know where to buy them. If so, I’d love to know.
2) they are a nails, and as you say, how do you fix that into fiberglass. The original car’s have a wood frame so that is possible to nail them into the corners.
For the benefit of other members reading this, I am attaching a photo of these “T” nails on an original car. I do this because I would like to have this forum document useful reference info for members restoring their car’s, rather than referring to things that perhaps others may not be aware of.
Thanks Mike for the reference to “T” nails as I had forgotten to highlight that is a feature of the original car’s....albeit small.
Regards Jerome

To add a little more authenticity put "T" nails in the corners. Not sure how you would attach them though, without wood.
CORDiallyMike

I forgot to mention that I chose to use leather that is a 100% natural full grain leather. This is the best type of leather you can buy when compared to Leather’s that have a manufactured rolled grain. They are sold in cost per square foot. A typical hide is about 50sq ft. To do my interior, with the pleated design, I am using 3 hides about 55 sq ft each. This will allow enough leather for the interior door and side panels, the seat, and windlacing, plus an amount to bind the edging of the carpet. If you choose the plain seat cushion design I would suggest buying 4 leather hides. As a cheaper alternative you can use a high quality vinyl, but be careful not to go for a thick heavy pattern in the vinyl as it looks very cheap. Some high quality vinyls are often hard for the untrained eye to distinguish from leather. I do believe that at resale time, the car will be worth more and considered more desirable if it has a leather interior.
Regards Jerome

This photo shows a close up of the design towards the top of the door. I’m not sure what you call those staggered 3 lines but note they are not straight. They match the curve of the edge of the door. Notice stitch length is also pretty tight. I always think upholsterers that use large stitch lengths are lazy and the work looks cheap. Regards Jerome

This photo shows the internal pocket which sits inside the door. It was made in black vinyl which was glued to a thin plastic sheet in order to give the vinyl some structure....like a box. When you take the door card off, it leaves the pocket in situ. Regards Jerome.

This photo shows the raised areas of the design in and around the flap
Regards Jerome

Here you can see the flap exposes a pocket it the door for storage. Note the recessed area for the flap which was done in order to give a slightly more flat finish. There are no clips holding the flap down. Some other Auburns had Burco fasteners, but to my knowledge the 35/36 Speedster did not.
Regards Jerome

SECTION 1: DOOR CARDS
Here is my almost finished door card. It has been built from scratch as my car had no door cards when bought...it was an unfinished car. You will see that I matched the design of the original door cards, which was difficult to do, particularly the raised sections and the edges. There are a few differences to the original but it’s really quite close. I see lots of awful interiors in replicas, and a number of pretty bad redone interiors in original car’s. I hope you like these. I have yet to fit the interior door handle
Regards Jerome

Discusses issues and approaches taken to do a new interior in a replica 851/852 interior. Most interiors are looking very tired in cars built in 1970’s and 1980’s and often need to be redone. This forum thread discusses some of the decisions I have made when restoring the interior with a serious attempt to be sympathetic to the design of original 851/852 speedsters. You will find that there are 5 sections of discussions concerning the interior.
Section 1 refers to the shape and style of DOOR CARDS.
Section 2 refers to the shape and style of CAR SEATS, and
Section 3 will refer to DASHBOARD AND INSTRUMENTATION.
Section 4 will refer to STEERING WHEELS AND STEERING COLUMNS.
Section 5 will refer to GEAR SHIFTERS/HANDBRAKES/BRAKE PEDALS .

It will take me some time to post the information I’d like to, so I would suggest that you try and let me finish all sections before you comment. .....or feel free to send me a private message.
Kind Regards Jerome