Seat Belts?

If you plan to come through BC, I would go to this website www.sva.bc.ca/ for advise. They've been a world of help to me with my hot rod Camaro on hydraulic suspension. In their FAQ section is a link to submit them a question via e-mail. Ring me if you come anywhere near Prince George I'd love to exchange ride along with you.

First of all, I regard the lap belts in my Cord as serving the purpose of keeping me in the car in the event of a collision. I still believe I'm safer there than on the ground. (Not always, though. When Dennis Jasany's Cord Custom Beverly was struck by a truck last year (not at highway speed) they were wearing lap belts. Both pivoted at their waists. Linda's head hit the windshield knob on the Cord dashboard. Fortunately, the injury wasn't severe.)

Second, if seat belts are to have [i:2k4k5694]any[/i:2k4k5694] value, they must be fastened to the frame of the car, or through large plates to the floor of the car. (4 X 4 X 1/8 mounting plates are required by SCCA.) And, the belts must extend to the rear at the same angle that they cross your lap. See
[url:2k4k5694]http://www.wescoperformance.com/lap-belts-install.html[/url:2k4k5694]. So in sedans they will interfere with the feet of rear seat passengers. Never fasten the belts to the seat frame. In the event of a head-on collision the seat (especially the wood-framed ones) with you attached will tear from its mountings and fly forward, increasing the likelihood of injury.

I do not believe that 3-point belts are practical in our cars. A head-on collision develops G-forces sufficient to rip the center pillar right out of them, even the sedans.

Our cars lack all of the safety amenities we have gotten used to in modern cars --- crumple zones, collapsing steering wheels, 3-point belts, airbags. There is nothing we can do to simulate these. So can we drive in safety?

Of course we can. You can enjoy your car on the road while you keep its limitations in mind. Concentrate on the road and drive very, very defensively. Drive secondary roads when you can. They are much more fun, too. (When Henry Portz and I drove to Auburn in Moonshadow last year, accompanied by three other Cords, the [i:2k4k5694]only[/i:2k4k5694] time I felt a bit concerned was when we were forced to use I-69 for a time. Man, that Interstate traffic does move along swiftly.)

Here endeth the lecture.

I don't have seat belts in either the Auburn or the '63 F100. Even with lap belts, I think the steering wheel would take you out in either one in a head on. I also feel naked in a modern car with out the belts on, but for some reason am reluctant to install them in the old iron. We don't have kids, but that would certainly affect my thinking.

Yup, I agree, a rollover is going to be nasty in any open car. But how about a head on or a T-bone, or a rear ender where the car stays upright? The belts would hopefully keep you from being ejected. But if the body came off the frame, and you were strapped to the frame, that would be ugly.

There is no such thing as a completely safe car, old OR modern, and every time you drive, seatbelts, airbags, whatever, you run the risk of being killed in an accident. It just goes along with the activity. Even when you, yourself, are careful, you have to deal with the stupidity of other drivers who spend more time talking on the cell phone and changing the radio than watching the road (or speedometer).

If I was driving an old car by myself, I probably wouldn't have lap belts installed UNLESS it was a car like Josh's Moonshadow that gets driven very regularly (or on long tours). If I was driving it with others, as a family car, I would do everything possible--radial tires, 12-volt lighting, belts, cut-off switches, the works--to make it as safe as possible.

P.S. To answer your question, Joel: My suggestion would be to put on belts if they make you feel any better. And I doubt those poor people in Michigan would have made it. In a phaeton (or speedster, for that matter, or any open car) there's not much between your head and the pavement in a rollover, even if you are strapped in.

Legalities aside, what are the safety aspects of seatbelts in older cars?
With a wood body structure, how likely is it that the body will separate from the chassis in a severe crash? Should you strap yourself to the body or the frame? Or take your chances without belts. How about the tragic Duesenberg crash up in Michigan? Would the 3 fatalities have survived if they were belted in?
I don't have belts in my Auburn Speedster simply because I don't know what is the safest thing to do. <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: -->

Some photos would be of interest to many, I'll bet.

Ric
Installed 3-points back in '98, mainly because of the ability to install child seats in the back. They make for a bit better comfort level, as driving without seat belts seems odd these days, legal or not, in whatever country. There's no way I could transport my kids without belts, ACD car or not.
Purchased from Moss Motors (online), it's a Bean product made in Oklahoma, looks vintage with nice chrome buckle.

Rears go back through upholstery gap at bottom of seatback, and at top of seatback between tonneau cover and upper, anchors on structures already there without drilling. Easy to hide if displaying the car. Fronts are drilled through the floor behind the front seat, and upper runs back to the quarter-window front mounting bolt, replaced with stainless bolt for driving. Harder to hide, but they sit on the rear floor under the coolers. It took a while to conceive of actually drilling 4 non-stock holes in the floor sheetmetal, but it's better this way. Some day somebody will hammer weld these holes closed for restoration. Until then, this is the way to go if you drive it. (Wonder if aftermarket air bags will fit?)

CBS
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Point taken.

Chris, you give the government too much credit. We all know that they can quite cheerfully permit you to have no seatbelts and still require you to install something that requires belts!

I don't really know the answer on child seats, but most state DMV regs are online.

Sorry, Steve, I haven't got a clue. I'm a history/styling guy who can't tell a carburetor from a supercharger. Someone here will know though.

Chris:
I concur with your thinking on the child seats. By the way; while I have you, what is the correct spark plug for the Model-J Duesenberg?
Steve

Most seats I've seen buckle in, using seatbelts. If they don't require you to have belts, I can't see how they could require you to have the seats that buckle on to them.

I think that Mike is correct on the belts and signals. Does anyone know if child booster seats and infant restraints are exempted also?
Steve Stevens

Ric,

As far as I know, the federal govt &amp; the various states do not force you to add belts, turn signals, or other things not required in the year your car was manufactured.

Hi! I intend making an extensive trip around the US this summer. In Canada, I don't need seat belts since the car did not have them when new. How does California, and other states in the USA deal with the absence of seat belts.
I was thinking of adding a set for front seat passengers. They will hold me in position as the non-collapsible steering column gets pushed through my chest in a major front end collision. Any suggestions where to anchor them? Ric.