Fantasy Bidding #4: Scottsdale in January!

Here's an observation from watching B-J on the tube.
The Cord Westchester sold for about $57k had a Washington State front plate, which leads me to the conclusion that this is a car that has been offered for sale by Tom Crook, a noted Packard dealer in Washington. This car was advertised in Old Cars Weekly and Hemmings for several months at $58k. So with the seller's fee the net amount to the seller was $53k.

SD[list:1wzvdat3][/list:u:1wzvdat3]

Sign of the times.

The sweet spot for collector cars seems to be 40-50 years back.

HOWEVER!!!

In 30 more years when a whole new generation of car buyers arrives, which would you rather have? A Duesenberg or a Cobra?

Exactly ...

B-J didn't just suffer in classics this year. RM got higher results for their Cobras. My eyes fell out of my head when I read that. <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->

Chris Summers wrote: My opinion on why the price was lower than the Swigart car:

1) The car at Barrett-Jackson had a bell-housing swap in addition to the body.

2) There's more LaGrande Phaetons out there than Murphys, and some people (raises hand here) prefer the Murphy's styling.

3) Two-tone tan paint schemes went out with disco.

4) The Swigart car hadn't been available for sale since Eisenhower was in the White House.

5) Barrett-Jackson's prices were low across the board this year, especially compared to previous sales. (Those Hemi 'Cuda investors must be hurtin'.)

I just think the B-J Scottsdale buyers like 'Cudas, Camaros, and Corvettes and not Cords ... Remember, a 1936 Cord 810 Cabriolet didn't really sell last year either.

B-J is not the place for our automobiles. More like Muscle and Monster Garage.

There's a massive market for barn finds. Museum finds aren't that much different.

Chris,

I agree with everything you said (I prefer the Murphy too) but $600k worth of difference?

A.J.

My opinion on why the price was lower than the Swigart car:

1) The car at Barrett-Jackson had a bell-housing swap in addition to the body.

2) There's more LaGrande Phaetons out there than Murphys, and some people (raises hand here) prefer the Murphy's styling.

3) Two-tone tan paint schemes went out with disco.

4) The Swigart car hadn't been available for sale since Eisenhower was in the White House.

5) Barrett-Jackson's prices were low across the board this year, especially compared to previous sales. (Those Hemi 'Cuda investors must be hurtin'.)

Good job Bill. I was a little surprised by this result for a number of reasons.

1. The history as I understood it was equivalent to the Murphy which sold at Hershey for considerably more. I.e., original body put on a different chassis.

2. The late chassis sedan with early Murphy coachwork sold for almost the same amount at Goodings earlier in the day. A nice mostly unrestored car, but by no means the style of this car.

3. The Phaeton at RM sold for 600k more the day before. This was a super nice car without the body switch story.

The guy that sold the car to Bob Pass was at Russo and Steele selling a nice Chrysler woody. I should have go the inside scoop from him.

steve derus wrote: Is the car headed for Texas?

It might be. The buyer was identified by Spanky Assiter as "Dick Dade. "

In any case it didnt go to a certain Texas collection we are familiar with.

Is the car headed for Texas?

Lucky guess.

This beautiful Duesenberg was consigned by Robert Pass. I really thought it should have gone quite a bit higher.

It looks like Barrett Jackson is not the place to be selling pre-war &amp; Pebble Beach type cars. That's why I dropped my fantasy bid to where it was.


Like they say ... [i:2fpzwayf]Buy it because you love it[/i:2fpzwayf], not because you think you will make money on it...


And did you hear the AUBURN-CORD-DUESENBERG CLUB mentioned several times? Yes you did!

And the hearty handshake, with a sale price of $1.1 million with commission, goes to...

BILL HUMMEL!

beating A.J.'s winning streak at last... <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: -->

Congrats from freezing W.V.

Hy everybody

I?m bidding the german federal government for this car . If that`s not enough - i bid additionaly the newly-formed german states .
Nobody here needs it anymore cause either are too expensive !

MY BID IS $1,150,000.

Less than a week to go. Be sure to send in your bids to win the hearty handshake!

So that nobody decides to visit B-J and enter in a bid by BlackBerry or iPhone, bids are due Saturday morning at 10 A.M. Barboursville Time (Eastern).

OK, here is my fantasy bid: $1,560,000.

Hope I win.

:rolleyes:

Mark

My guess is 1.75 which is 600k more then I would have said 18 months ago.

A friend received one of the early mailers and said the same thing--Corvettes and muscle cars (phooey) as far as the eye can see, and no Duesenberg.

Maybe Craig Jackson is trying for the element of surprise?...

I received a BJ Scottsdale auction catalog, the Duesenberg isn't included, although it does show on their website. Not very good publicity.

ENGINE: J-334 with bell-housing from J-281
FRAME: should be 2355 (I think B-J got it wrong--frame and engine have been together since new, just bell-housing has been swapped)
BODY: #1007 (original LaGrande, swapped by Russ Stauch from J-482 in the early 1960s)

Owners including Richard Boeshore, Jerry J. Moore, Blackhawk Collection, and Robert Pass.

The Registry entry is long and complicated. I wrote it and it still makes my head hurt, so I'll spare you all and not post it.

I think the car will sell well, a) because it's B-J, b) because it's a Duesenberg, and c) because even though it's a bitsa, its parts are all factory. The red heat of Scottsdale will, I imagine, move the price a bit higher than what we saw in Hershey, but time will tell.

P.S. If I (had the money and) bought it, first order of business would be to repaint it. I don't know what scheme I'd use, but the Two-Tone Tan era is over and I for one don't miss it.

Chris Summers wrote:
Any more bids? We'd hate to have Steve win this by default.

Their description does not tell me enough about that particular car to make an accurate guess. I don't personally know the history of it either so it's kind of hard. If it was an original body, mated with an original chassis and done at least 50 years ago then the Hershey auction would give you a pretty good comparable.

If anyone knows the history and wants to PM me (or post it here) it would help!

steve derus wrote: I'd venture a guess that at Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale, a Duesenberg might not be bid very high. It seems to me that the bidders there are all about muscle cars, Corvettes, and Ferraris.

My bid is $750k.

I said the same thing about about the Derham sedan Tom Crook brought last year until he got a boat load of money. If it was my car I would probably use one of the other houses, but I would not be surprised by a high sale price.

Chris, I still need to think about it before putting in my bid.

Greg Riley wrote: He said the only problem is that none of them drive their cars, and don't particularly care how well they run.

In 1987 a friend of mine who has worked on and driven many Js went to a CCCA meet. A nationally-famous collector was showing his latest gem there. It gleamed like a fine diamond, and the crowd was spellbound until the collector started it up and the valve-timing was so far off the hood was rattling.

Any more bids? We'd hate to have Steve win this by default.

I'd venture a guess that at Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale, a Duesenberg might not be bid very high. It seems to me that the bidders there are all about muscle cars, Corvettes, and Ferraris.

My bid is $750k.

In the words of my friend Gary Vick, "Cars are meant to be driven." And yes, he does indeed drive his.

I recently saw a post on Jay Leno's site where he talks about getting together with other Duesie owners to reproduce some parts. He said the only problem is that none of them drive their cars, and don't particularly care how well they run.

I have $3.98 in my Duesenberg fund right now. At this rate I figure I'll have the money to buy one by my 116th birthday. It may be a wrecked, bondo-bucket, made-over, re-bodied, incorrect chassis, pile, but I'm gonna get one some day. And when I get it, I'm gonna drive it I'll be the blur on the Eastex Freeway in Houston with the exhaust cut-out open. Oh yeah, I forgot the ****-eating grin I'll have.

Besides, even John O'Quinn can't buy 'em all!!
Have a great weekend!
Greg

We've displayed one or more Duesenbergs at the last three shows we were affiliated with. Amelia Island, Meadowbrook, and Kruse. I know some people secret the cars away but we don't. With a little advance warning anyone can look at our Duesenbergs at their leisure. No group tours right now, but I can accommodate the individual or a couple of people.

Okay... problem solved for Bill H. Let the club members poll their money together to co-own these Duesenbergs... then store them in Auburn for me to look after them

We're working on land aquisition. We closed on one piece of property, where the shops will be, and are working on the land where the museum proper will be. When the museum is built all the Duesenbergs will be on display, side by side, accessible to all who want to see them.

Jerry Moore had about thirty Duesenbergs. Another guy about that time had over forty. You cannot have too many Duesenbergs. I don't what the biggest Duesenberg collection is right now.

Here's the link.

www.barrett-jackson.com/applicat ... umber=1311

The chassis is listed as 2355...which I think is wrong. It should be 2302 as Josh says.

Chris,

BJ is selling this car? I can't find it on their website.

A.J.

Bill Hummel wrote: I am very happy that there is still a big interest in our family's automobiles, but when is enough, enough?

The problem, Bill, is that with the current prices of Duesenbergs, these cars are not going to ACD Club member types. They are going to investors who put them on a pedestal and stare at them at night with a glass of wine, waiting for the next boom to come so they can shove it across the auction block again. Also, with these prices, when a longtime lover and driver of a Duesenberg passes away (and we all know this hobby is not getting any younger), the family usually can't resist the temptation to sell the car to one of those investors.

The fact is, we are a group of people who, for the most part, drive the bejesus out of what we own. (Look at the late Bill Bocock as an excellent example.) And the people who are currently able to afford Duesenbergs just aren't interested in doing that, and therefore aren't interested in us.

That said, Bill P.'s boss lets him drive the Js, happily lets car clubs into his collection, and at last word planned to have the museum open sometime in 2009. Works for me.

Chris Summers wrote: When bidding, please keep in mind that this is Barrett-Jackson. Common sense and actual value of the car are totally irrelevant.

And a Sale might not really be a Sale!

bill powell wrote: I'll make my fantasy bid after I buy the car. That way I'll have an edge.

I sure hope the collectors around the country who are buying up all of these Duesenbergs will continue to bring them out to shows.

When one person has so many, and so many cars are in the hands of so few, it is impossible to get large numbers out in the public view at the shows. We had a pitiful turnout at Auburn a few months back.

I am very happy that there is still a big interest in our family's automobiles, but when is enough, enough?

Chris' post illustrates the futility of keeping track of Model Js by what is essentially a bell housing number. The chassis number that it was born with --- the one that is stamped on the frame and on the firewall --- should be 2302. Should we not continue to identify it as such regardless of engine, bell housing and body changes?

Comments welcome.

eh, eh, eh...no cheating.

But if you do buy it, watch the starter fluid this time around.

I'll make my fantasy bid after I buy the car. That way I'll have an edge.

WHERE:
Barrett-Jackson in Scottsdale this January, on "Shatterday."

WHAT:
A 1933 Duesenberg Model J LaGrande Phaeton. Two-tone tan with tan leather interior, ex-Richard Boeshore, Jerry Moore, Blackhawk Collection, Robert Pass, and featured at last year's ACD Museum Gala.

This car has the chassis and bell-housing of J-281, but the engine is actually J-334. The body is an original LaGrande, #1007, removed from J-482.

So, the car is authentic Duesenberg in all major respects--just out of three different cars!

MAKE YOUR BID:

Whoever's guess is closest to the final sale price, with commission, receives a hearty digital handshake.

When bidding, please keep in mind that this is Barrett-Jackson. Common sense and actual value of the car are totally irrelevant.

Good luck all.