Duesenberg SJ La Grand Phaeton questions from a newbie

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27 May 2013 19:52 #25227 by BSteinIPMS
BSteinIPMS created the topic: Duesenberg SJ La Grand Phaeton questions from a newbie
Gentlemen,
As a life-long model builder I've just tackled the old Hubley kit of the 1932 Duesenberg La Grande Dual-cowl Sweep panel Phaeton and for the type of work and detailing I usually do I expect this to be a multi-year project. To make an accurate model of a real Duesy which actually (at one time) existed, I have about a gazillion questions, if you'd be so kind.

First, I have over a dozen books on Duesenbergs and have done extensive online and photo research to attempt finding answers without bothering the members of this fine group with basic questions, which, I know, can be really annoying.

1. I'm interested in duplicating the color scheme of the SJ in the Louwman Museum, but can't determine if there are four or eight segmented exhaust pipes. There are no left-hand views that I've found which would answer this.

2. I understand the V-windshield of this vehicle was later added by Rollston. Does this imply that it was originally produced with the straight windshield as in the Hubley/Gabriel kit?

3. I was under the impression that the segmented exhaust pipes were first introduced with the SJ model in 1932, but I understand that some vehicles had them added later for looks. The ACD Museum book "It's a Duesy!" has a color photograph of a 1929 SJ in the colors I'd like to duplicate, but the caption reads that it's a LeBaron body, not La Grande. This LeBaron body looks identical to the La Grand body in the Louwman to my untrained eye, aside from the trunk. Additionally, this seems early for an SJ. 1929?

4. I like the color scheme of the Collings Foundation SJ Phaeton, but see that it has the eight-section exhaust pipes rather than the four segmented pipes. Is there any possibility it had them at one time? I wouldn't think so unless the four fender ports were filled in.

5. For you model builders out there, is it possible the Hubley/Gabriel kit is mislabeled? That it really represents a LeBaron body rather than a La Grande?

Thanks so much for your patience!
Cheers!
--Bob

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28 May 2013 07:20 #25232 by Kay
Kay replied the topic: four exhaust pipes, not eight
Hi Bob,

re 1: It has four exhaust pipes. There aren't any on the left side. Take a look into the mirror on this photo: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7047/6893 ... bcca_b.jpg

Regards
Kay

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28 May 2013 14:29 #25235 by BSteinIPMS
BSteinIPMS replied the topic: Re: four exhaust pipes, not eight
Hi Kay,

Thanks very much! That answers one question.

Cheers!
--Bob

Kay wrote: Hi Bob,

re 1: It has four exhaust pipes. There aren't any on the left side. Take a look into the mirror on this photo: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7047/6893 ... bcca_b.jpg

Regards
Kay

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28 May 2013 23:48 #25239 by Bob Roller
Bob Roller replied the topic: Models of Duesenbergs
Actually,all model "J"s are 1929's but are usually dated by the year they were titled and registered for use by the first owner. The superchargers were added after 1931 and I have an ad for July 1932 for a supercharged
engine from Vanity Fair.(I think)
I think the LeGrande had the door sweep panel farther into the door than the LeBaron.All "J"s with the external exhaust went thru the right side of the hood and going thru the fender if it had a fender. J397 had cycle type fenders and a really good looking pipe arrangement IMHO. The cars with conventional exhaust systems had a double pipe system looking like a very large bore shotgun and an exhaust bypass operated by a handle on the floor on the drivers side.Smaller wheels and skirted fenders were later options. One "J" owner I knew said some of the radically restyled cars were styled after a 1937 Plymouth or as another said,all those wretched Bohman&Schwartz modifications.

Bob Roller

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29 May 2013 10:01 #25243 by landmark
landmark replied the topic: Re: Duesenberg SJ La Grand Phaeton questions from a newbie

BSteinIPMS wrote: Gentlemen,
As a life-long model builder I've just tackled the old Hubley kit of the 1932 Duesenberg La Grande Dual-cowl Sweep panel Phaeton and for the type of work and detailing I usually do I expect this to be a multi-year project. To make an accurate model of a real Duesy which actually (at one time) existed, I have about a gazillion questions, if you'd be so kind.

First, I have over a dozen books on Duesenbergs and have done extensive online and photo research to attempt finding answers without bothering the members of this fine group with basic questions, which, I know, can be really annoying.

1. I'm interested in duplicating the color scheme of the SJ in the Louwman Museum, but can't determine if there are four or eight segmented exhaust pipes. There are no left-hand views that I've found which would answer this.

2. I understand the V-windshield of this vehicle was later added by Rollston. Does this imply that it was originally produced with the straight windshield as in the Hubley/Gabriel kit?

3. I was under the impression that the segmented exhaust pipes were first introduced with the SJ model in 1932, but I understand that some vehicles had them added later for looks. The ACD Museum book "It's a Duesy!" has a color photograph of a 1929 SJ in the colors I'd like to duplicate, but the caption reads that it's a LeBaron body, not La Grande. This LeBaron body looks identical to the La Grand body in the Louwman to my untrained eye, aside from the trunk. Additionally, this seems early for an SJ. 1929?

4. I like the color scheme of the Collings Foundation SJ Phaeton, but see that it has the eight-section exhaust pipes rather than the four segmented pipes. Is there any possibility it had them at one time? I wouldn't think so unless the four fender ports were filled in.

5. For you model builders out there, is it possible the Hubley/Gabriel kit is mislabeled? That it really represents a LeBaron body rather than a La Grande?

Thanks so much for your patience!
Cheers!
--Bob


Hello Bob,

in addition to what Kay and Bob Roller already told:

1. As Kay said; four Pipes on the right side. The Duesenberg J-engine is a straight (inline) eight engine ->right side is the exhaust-side, left side the intake side (no exhaust-pipes there!)
Some "new" replica (fake) cars are V-8 powered and have exhaustpipes on both sides, e.g. the yellow "Duesenberg" in the new Great Gatsby movie is such a replica car (not an original Duesenberg J!)


2. I would guess so, many bodies were restyled/modified in the second half of the thirties (and later) B.t.w. that car is J-532 and was topic in an older posting, here it is: http://forums.acdclub.org/phpbb2/viewto ... cd8550105f


3. As Bob Roller told and the sweep-panel DCPs of each of both companies differ a in some details from car to car e.g. some La Grande DCP have the doorhandles in front and open in front other open (like modern cars) in rear (doorhandles in rear of the door) a.s.o.


I think the complete Model J serie is named by the factory as "Model J" (supercharged or not) the "SJ" designation comes not from the factory. Only some of the very late produced cars were named JN, the N means new (body) style.

On a lot of former uncharged Model J was a supercharger later added.


4. The eight(port) in one manifold on the Collings Foundation car (J-261) is the very rare "Monel" manifold. I think that manifold was mounted on the early (by factory) supercharged Model J before the "Four-Pipe" Exhausts were introduced.

Here you will find a detail picture of such a manifold: http://www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1060491


5. Do you know this site?

http://duesey2208.com/Datasheets/frmModelJIndex.htm

When you "klick" on a car you will find additional informations and pictures to that car <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->


Cheers

Matt

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ist selten ganz besonders gut

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29 May 2013 15:43 #25245 by BSteinIPMS
BSteinIPMS replied the topic: Re: Models of Duesenbergs
Thanks for the helpful information, Bob. I appreciate it very much.
Rough-and-ready measuring of the sweep panels on the Louwman La Grand and Bob Grooters' LeBaron reveals almost, if not the same, dimensions, but I see the former has "suicide" doors on the front whereas the LeBaron has all four door hinges on the front. I'm learning to sharpen my eye, so thanks!

Bob Roller wrote: Actually,all model "J"s are 1929's but are usually dated by the year they were titled and registered for use by the first owner. The superchargers were added after 1931 and I have an ad for July 1932 for a supercharged
engine from Vanity Fair.(I think)
I think the LeGrande had the door sweep panel farther into the door than the LeBaron.All "J"s with the external exhaust went thru the right side of the hood and going thru the fender if it had a fender. J397 had cycle type fenders and a really good looking pipe arrangement IMHO. The cars with conventional exhaust systems had a double pipe system looking like a very large bore shotgun and an exhaust bypass operated by a handle on the floor on the drivers side.Smaller wheels and skirted fenders were later options. One "J" owner I knew said some of the radically restyled cars were styled after a 1937 Plymouth or as another said,all those wretched Bohman&Schwartz modifications.

Bob Roller

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