Can anybody ID this car?

I was just looking at the photo gallery above, and saw J-139. It looks like a car that Jerry Moore used to own. It was dark blue.

If it is the same car I dropped a Cord limousine on top of it one day, on the way to Meadowbrook. The car I dropped on it was the John Barrymore L-29 Limo with the rear mounted spares.

All in all, not a real good day.

There are, of course, exceptions. I've never understood the hubbub about the colors on the Gary Cooper Tourster. IMHO, it looks like an Easter egg...and those are the original colors!

The era of the "Circus" colors on restored classics was from the mid-70s into the 90s. Whenever you see a bright color that just doesn't look right I think you will find the car was restored in that period.

Hello Gents:
I have a two comments regarding paint colors on these ACD cars.

(1) Back in the day, as well as today, people who could afford a model J were very wealthy people (I am not an not one of them unfortunately). Wealthy people usually have and buy what they want and are not swayed much by the opinions of others. That may be how they got wealthy in the first place. Either that or they did it the old fashioned way (a rich daddy). At any rate, most of them would say "That's the way I like it and the next guy can do what he wants with it". So much for the model J paint colors.

(2) I recently had the good fortune to purchase a set of twenty different 2" x 5" color chips for 1931-32 Auburn - Cord made by the Acme Paint Co. of Detroit. These chips date from the 1930's or 40's and are very well preserved having been stored in a metal box. There are no bright or light colors in the group except for CREAM (what we would call cigarette cream) and OLD IVORY (what we would call tan). The only thing in red is CARMINE (what we would call dark burgundy). All the rest of the blues, browns, grays, greens, etc. are dark and subdued colors. They are beautiful and stately colors however. Evidently on production cars in the 1930's, that is what the public prefered. To have an authentic restoration, these colors should be duplicated.

I am lucky in that my 1932 Auburn (as compared to these chips) is an exact match for OLD IVORY (tan) and CEDRIC (dark brown). I don't think that my bright orange wire wheels would be authentic however. I may change them to CEDRIC some day. The car won't be as flashy, but it will be more stately and authentic.

Kindest regards,
Steve Stevens

Hmm, guess I'm not the only one out here who prefers his Duesenbergs in dark monochrome paint schemes with blackwall tires...triple black, dark blue, or maroon. Some of the best looking ones I've seen were dark metallic brown. But I guess some people are afraid they won't get noticed unless their car is yellow and green, or orange and black...At the risk of getting kicked off the forum, I'd even say I prefer the look of Duesenbergs (and Cords) without the side exhaust!

Steve Derus wrote: I saw the Murphy vee windshield sedan (J-139?) at the Newport Beach Concoure when it was owned by John Mozart and it wore dark blue with chrome wheels and blackwalls.

J-151 / 2132, although both it and J-139 / 2163 are identical colors. J-151 is now owned by Bill Parfet and has been to Auburn many times. Someone told me it served as a beer wagon until the police put an end to it.

There was supposedly a third Sport Sedan built to the same design, which was lost in the Los Angeles Auto Show fire of 1929 (along with the Auburn Cabin Speedster). I've scoured quite a few photos of that fire, looking for a J grille sticking out!

regarding the square vs. curved top configuration, The Murphy LWB convertible berline is one of, if not my favorite, Murphy coachwork. I have seen Richard Law's car on many occasions and even drove along next to it on the Santa Ana freeway on one occsion. In addition to that nice rear quarter curved top line, I love the swept front cowl. Clean lines and perfectly proportioned. By the way I really admire and applaud Mr. Law for his willingness to drive and enjoy his Duesenberg.

As for a color, I think the car would look stunning in dark blue with chrome wheels and blackwall tires. I saw the Murphy vee windshield sedan (J-139?) at the Newport Beach Concoure when it was owned by John Mozart and it wore dark blue with chrome wheels and blackwalls. Could hardly take my eyes off of it. When my father owned J-305, the Murphy clear vision sedan with filled quarter windows, it was also in dark blue with polished aluminum belt line and hood accents.

Interesting to see how much the Kirkhoff body J-186 resembles the Murphy J-123

I remember reading the Hemmings auction report that included the car. They said that it was a pretty old and well-used restoration. I don't think the majority of RM buyers are looking for something to drive around on Sunday morning.

Duesenberg Green looks much better on engines. I can't help thinking what that car would look like in a nice, subdued dark green, with chrome wire wheels and blackwalls...

Chris Summers wrote: Wow, I had never noticed that before. That's fascinating!

There is a photo of the car when new on p. 24 of Carson's "The Olympian Cars." The rear windows are square-edged, as shown in the modern restoration. So it is indeed a later modification...the question is, by whom?

The same photo is here, for those who don't have the book:

curtright.us/F4146E38-271E-4b39- ... 6_193x.htm

That is an interesting trunk configuration in that picture. It does not look typical? I was surprised at how (relatively) little this car sold for back in 2004. I assumed that it was the color.

The family that runs the website, the Curtrights, has owned J-186 since the 1950s. It is in the final stages of a very long restoration at the moment. There are many, many photos of the restoration elsewhere on the site.

I just answered my own question, by clicking on "Next" it shows the car (J186) with a V windshield

Nice site, Chris.
I noticed this car, also a 1929 model, that was designed by a former Murphy employee. Very similar, but for the center-hinged doors. I cannot tell from this angle if it has a V-windshield, but then the factory photo of J123 is just as confusing.
curtright.us/F4146E38-271E-4b39- ... 8_1934.htm

Wow, I had never noticed that before. That's fascinating!

There is a photo of the car when new on p. 24 of Carson's "The Olympian Cars." The rear windows are square-edged, as shown in the modern restoration. So it is indeed a later modification...the question is, by whom?

The same photo is here, for those who don't have the book:

curtright.us/F4146E38-271E-4b39- ... 6_193x.htm

OK, these photos clearly demonstrate what made me curious about this car in the first place. The car is presently restored to its original configuration. But, it appears that at one point in its life, it wore a modified top design, much like the later Murphy torpedo berlines. In my (humble) opinion, this was quite an improvement...looks pretty awesome with that V windshield! Wonder if it was done by one of the original coachbuilders or as part of a "factory" remodeling?

From Steve's family collection.



And a photo of the car as it appeared at a past Meadowbrook Concours, taken by Robert Armstrong.



Sorry for the large size, I didn't feel up to resizing pictures this late at night.

Just a couple of things to add...

First Bill Craig has passed away. He was quite a character and I think he worked for Bill Harrah as a mechanic.

I saw J-123 in about 1956, in Los Angeles. It was sitting outside on a vacant lot and was looking quite forlorne. It had been the victim of vandals, all the windows were broken out.
I believe Chris Summers has a photo of the car taken at that time. The car was rough enough that my dad passed it up and gave Al Frankel the tip that led to his buying the car. I've never seen it again.

Steve Derus

WOW You guys are incredible! Looks like I will need to join the club. Closest thing I have to a Duesenberg is a '26 Nash, which well, you know, isn't close at all.

J123 reminds me of the first Duesenberg I saw as a kid, back in the late '60s. It was in the Zimmerman collection in Harrisburg, PA. I have seen another one somewhere else..a blue one. Both were fixed roof, I think. Maybe the same car, I don't know. Anyway, these cars have a very straight up "c pillar." In the picture I posted, that part of the car is mostly cut off, but it looked to me like it might have had a slope to it, more like the later Murphys. The sloped c pillar with the V windshield would have been a neat combo, something I hadn't seen before, and apparently never will, if no such thing exists!

I learned a lot about these cars from Strother MacMinn. He did the illustrations for the Elbert book, which is probably the root cause of all the interest we have today. Mac had a pretty nice stash of photographs he took in the '40s and '50s, of the cars on used car lots or in service bays. He passed away some years ago, but I'm sure they are still around some place. It was a great privilege to know someone who "was there" back in the old days, and through him, I got to see a lot of cars and meet some of the owners, but never managed to get a ride in one.

Ok, since you guys know so much, can you tell me anything about the Duesenberg that was owned by Rudy J. Wentz of Carrolltown, Pa, back in the WWII era?

It is the only example of its kind built with a stylish and raked vee windshield. The effect is startling and very sporting; it seems odd that this remarkable feature was never added to another convertible sedan. (A very similar windshield was used by Murphy on two fixed roof sport sedans.) J123 is one of just a handful of Murphy convertible sedans built as Berlines - a term that referred to the inclusion of a division window. This clever feature could be raised or lowered at will, giving the owner the flexibility of driving the car himself or utilising a chauffeur. J123 was delivered new to J. Wilcox Drake, a prominent Los Angeles area businessman in May of 1929. Drake kept the car for six years - which was quite a long tenure for the day - before selling it to Roy Chanslor, another Los Angeles resident in 1935. Although the historical record does not provide exact dates, for the next 20 years J123 remained in California, passing through the hands of several owners. Chanslor sold the car to John Shepard, who later sold it to Ray Brule of El Cajon California who had engine trouble and parked the car. He then sold it to a man named Blotti. Later owners included George Martin (Los Angeles), Robert Straede, (Santa Monica), and Lassiter Hoyle, also of California. By late 1955, was owned by Al Frankel, another California Duesenberg enthusiast. Frankel offered the car, not running, for sale at $400, and Duesenberg historian Ray Wolf, who had come to California to buy another car, tried to buy J123, with the intention of towing it home behind the car he had just bought. Unfortunately he was unable to make the towing rig work, so he passed on the car. Frankel later sold J123 to William Craig of Oakland, CA, in August of 56 for $600 - apparently prices were rising even then! Craig, who is now in his 80s, lives in Reno, NV today Craig apparently utilized parts from other cars and managed to get running, although for some reason he installed the bellhousing from J213. He sold the car to E. Glenn Hughes in 1959. Hughes is generally credited with the first proper restoration of - including acquiring the car's original bellhousing and re-uniting it with the car. Although the exact timing is not known, it is believed that the restoration took several years, and was completed in the late 1960s or early 1970s. In March of 1974, Hughes sold the car to Duesenberg trader Leo Gephardt of Dayton, OH (now Scottsdale, AZ), who resold it in April of that year to Lou Lazarus of Foreston, IL. In October of 1974, J123 was purchased by Bob Marceca of New York City, for the then princely sum of $141,000. Marceca kept the car for 10 years before selling it to dealer "Friendly" Bob Adams of Janesville, WI. Adams resold the car to Oscar Davis of Elizabeth, N.J. via Pennsylvania agent Mark Smith in December of 1984. Davis traded the car almost immediately to legendary Texas collector Jerry J. Moore. remained in Moore's massive collection for 12 years, where it was maintained and serviced by his full-time staff. Finally, in September of 1996 Moore sold J123 to RM Classic Cars of Chatham, ON, who sold it to a client.

Hi, Nick,

Welcome to the Forum!

I don't know who owns the car now but it still exists. In the most recent photo I've seen of it, it was painted Duesenberg Green. It is #J-123 / 2146.

At one time, Dennis Brule, Ray Brule's son, was on the Forum and discussing this car. I haven't seen a post from him in quite a while.

If you like Duesenbergs, consider joining the Club. You'll meet a lot of friendly like-minded people.

Hi. I am brand new to this forum but have been fascinated by Duesenberg cars and their geneology for many years. I particularly like to see photos of the cars from back when they were in daily use.

I ran across this car while surfing the web. It looks to be a Murphy conv. sedan, with V-windshield and front opening (suicide) doors. It was owned at the time by Raymond Brule, who apparently also owned the Liebhardt speedster.

Does anybody know the number of this car, or what happened to it? Any recent photos?

Cut and paste link is www.pbase.com/drbrule/image/39361780

Thanks