Information wanted on Duesenbergs exported to India

Thanks again guys.

We have some pictures of this car with Prince Moazzam Jah and his beautifull Turkish wife, Princess Niloufer, taken in Vienna, Austria.

Am unable to find out how to upload pictures here so please check out the link below, it is to the Duesenbergs in India thread on Team BHP.

www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-1950/ ... dia-3.html

The then King of the state of Hyderabad, always refered to as the Nizam of Hyderabad, Osman Al Khan, Nizam the Seventh, was considered to be the worlds richest man, in his times.

He had a great passion ofr cars and there are some still on display at one of his palaces, which includea 1919 Silver Ghost with just 500 Miles on hte clock.

He had two sons, Azam Jah was the elder and Moazam Jah was the younger.They were quiet decadent with a propensity to squander their monies.

Some great cars were imported for them which apart from these two Duesenbergs also included two Mercedes 540 K , a Figoni bodied Delahaye and various Bentleys and Rolls Royces.

The elder brother, Azam Jah had J-202 the Murphy Convertible Sedan and the younger brother used J-499.

The old man, their father finally got really mad at them and names his grandson, Azam Jah's son as his heir apparent, effectivly removing Azam Jah from the line of succession

Yes I see that, didn't notice until you pointed it out.

The Garbo car has a top like that in the recent photos I've seen.

Steve

Interesting that the car has "vision notches" behind the door in that photo. By the looks of the color photo earlier, from Pebble Beach, it doesn't have them now?

Wasif,

This could be the period photo of J-499 you are looking for.
Steve Derus

Mr. Summers.

It was a pleasure hearing from you about the chain of owners of J- 585. I was under the impression that this car was with Jay Leno for a while too, apart from J- 499.

Are their any records of the owners of J-499, when it left India and who owned it then and the other owners till date ?

Also does anyone have period pictures of J-499 as it was when it left India. What was its original paint scheme like. I don't think it was maroon to start with. In Hyderabad it used to be a light beige or cream color.

Regards

Wasif

Sheik Muktar (please correct my spelling if needed) sold J-585 to Bill Brewster. Brewster had the car restored and then traded it in 1966 to Lawrence Witten of CT. Owners after Witten were Dr. Samuel Scher, Harry Resnick, Samuel Schwartz, Tom Perkins, Tom Barrett, and finally General Lyon.

The photos Steve posted are correctly identified; if I called the car on Leno's website J-542 earlier, I was incorrect, sorry. That IS J-499.

Thanks once more. I was thinking the same and your identification of the supercharged car makes this more probable.

Any further info on the cars past owners etc will be eagerly awaited.

Any pictures available of the other Darrin bodied cars ?

Regards

Wasif

This is J-542, the supercharged car
[img] Therefore, this car on the Jay Leno's garage site is incorrectly identified as J-542, so could it actually be J-499? [img]http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/images/your_garage/cars/7424_188700370547e751f281d2a.jpg[/img]

And I ran across this photo of J-499 which I think looks a lot like the car above.

Thanks for the period pictures of J-585. Much appreciated.

The fact that it was owned for a while by Mr. Brewster is something I have never known. So this brings us one step closer in documenting the cars history and its various owners.

Would love to hear more about the hands this great machine has passed through. The amazing thing is that this car has definitely crossed the Atlantic at least four times.

I'm sure it probably is one of the most widely travel led of all Duesenbergs.

I am so eagerly waiting to see pictures of J-499, which belonged to Azam Jah, the sone of the Nizam of Hyderabad.

When I was a kid my grandad had many pleasant memories of this cars brief stay in Hyderabad.

Regards

Wasif

Fabulous 1935 SJ Duesenberg owned at time by William Brewster of Stonington, Connecticut, pictured 1963, the custom plate said, "DOOZ".

Sometime back I read the thread you had on Mercedes 500k/540k in India and it was very very interesting.

Hi.

That "Came out of the Jungle" story is a bit far fetched. The car was in Mumbai so maybe it should read urban jungle and flat bed truck instead.

We are trying to make the www.Team-Bhp.com the definitive site for information on the great vintage and classic cars that were associated with India.

If anyone has any questions regarding cars that came from India we can probably provide the information and in some cases pictures etc.

Regards

Wasif

On further reading,

"When the car came out of the jungle in India to be shipped it was cradled in a sling between four elephants."

www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-1950 ... india.html

Thanks, David, that is great information.

Wasif told me that neither J-196 or J-202 have survived. In J-202's case there is definite proof of its scrapping. The engine has survived, as "J-541," although how it made it out of India is kind of controversial.

The Maharajah or Maharani of Baroda was said to have had a town car, European-bodied, with gold-plated trim, but nothing has ever come out of that to my knowledge.

Probably known to everyone, but here's another forums talks about these cars:
www.team-bhp.com/forum/pre-1950 ... dia-3.html

Dear Mr. Summers.

It was a pleasure hearing from you regarding these cars. There is lot of debate ongoing amongst car enthusiasts in India regarding the Duesenberg cars that came to India.

The records here also indicate that J-202 was scrapped. Its good to hear that the engine survives and is now a part of J- 541.

As of today we are not aware of any Duesenberg cars intact in India. There was mention of one in Calcutta with Mr. Mitter but no further news is available on this.

It is said that one more car was imported for the Maharajah of Baroda but no pictures or details on this exist.

Is it possible to get pictures of J- 499. I am from Hyderabad and my grandfather has mentioned many times about riding in this car.

Parts of a Duesenberg,probably from J-202 have surfaced periodically in India. There is a Trunk with a friend in Bombay and another has a wheel rim.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of J-499.

Regards

Wasif

Hello and welcome to the Club.

J-499 and J-585 were both with General Lyons as of last year. There have been rumors of J-196's survival but to my knowledge no one has ever found anything. J-202's engine can be seen in the ACD Museum, modified and renumbered J-541.

In the 1980s (1986?) there were rumors of a Duesenberg town car surviving in India, published in an ACD newsletter by historian Ray Wolff. To my knowledge nothing ever came out of that.

Thanks for the picture.

What an amazing car. The red and blue indicator lights were a trademark of the Maharajah Holkars Cars.

The story goes that his subjects would bow towards all cars with the royal license plates as they couldn't distinguish weather the car was the Maharaja was in the car or not.

So to save them the trouble he devised this system of the two lights. If the red was on it meant that the Maharaja was in the car. The blue was for the Maharani and they would both be lit when the couple drove together.

Similarly the state flag was mounted on the side of the windscreen and not on the front wings as was customary with all princes.

The picture looks like it was taken at Pebble Beach. Do you know which year was this.

Regards

Wasif

Here is a photo of the Gurney Nutting Speedster

Here is a photo of the Gurney Nutting Speedster

Dear Mr. Derus.

It was a pleasure to hear from you and learn of the whereabouts of J499 and J585. Would you or your esteemed friends have any picture of these cars as they are today. I tried to find a website for the Generals Collection but was unsuccessful.

Its ironic to think that I lived for the past 8 years in Pasadena, California and never thought of tracing these cars while they were so close to me.

I shall await input from Mr. Ema and Mr. Summers to add more to the saga of these cars.

There is a forum for discussion on vintage and classic cars on www.Team-Bhp.com where you will find details on the cars that are still in India and others that have left India and we are trying to update the info on this site by locating these cars.

Apart from these four cars there are unconfirmed reports of two other cars that came to India. Would any of you know more on this subject ?

Regards

Wasif

Wasif,

Randy Ema and/or Chris Summers will no doubt have answers or at least some additional background on the fate of J196 and J202.

General William Lyon (Coto De Caza California) is the current owner of J-585. Interestingly it would appear that he also owns J-499.

Regards
Steve Derus

Hi.

I am a new member from India.

I am trying to get information on the Duesenberg Cars that came to India. As of now there are confirmed reports of four cars, listed below, that had come to India.

Can anyone on this forum help with details on these and on any other cars that you know went to India.

From: Jon Bill [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 16 March 2009 22:44
To: Wasif Ahmed
Subject: RE: Details needed.-reply

Dear Wasif,

I?m afraid that we cannot be of much help regarding these four Duesenbergs.

1. We do not know the whereabouts of J-499.
2. J-585 is (or was) in the private collection of Gen. William Lyons. Our information is not up-to-date.
3. Our information tells us that J-196 disappeared in India. Current whereabouts unknown.
4. We don?t have any further information on J-202.

You might try contacting the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Club at phpstack-1081784-3880776.cloudwaysapps.com .

Thank you for your interest in the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Automobile Museum.

Regards,

Jon Bill, archivist
Auburn Cord Duesenberg Automobile Museum

________________________________________
From: Wasif Ahmed [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 10:15 AM
To: <a href="mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]
Subject: Details needed.

Hi.

I am a vintage / classic car enthusiast from India. I am trying to get details and present whereabouts on the below listed cars that were confirmed to have been imported into India.

1. 1933 Coupe Car No. 2516 with Convertible Victoria body no J 499 by Fernandez &amp; Darrin. Imported to India for Prince Azam Jah of Hyderabad. Last know to be a part of Dr.Joseph Murphey collection around 1995. Current whereabouts unknown, This car is said to be very similar to the Greta Garbo car. Pictures of this car can be found in books on Duesenberg written by Fred Roe and JL Elbert.The car also featured in the March 1953 issue of Motor Trend magazine
2. 1935 SJ Convertible no. 2614 with Gurney Nutting body no J 585. The only Gurney Nutting bodied Duesenberg imported for Maharajah Holkar of Indore. Was displayed at Pebble Beach sometime in the 1990?s. Present whereabouts sought.
3. Model J SWB, Car no 2220 with Weyman four door sedan body no J196. Imported to India for the Maharajah of Idar. Current whereabouts unknown / sought.
4. Model J, car no 2222 with Murphy convertible sedan body no J 202. Said to be the London Motor Show car of 1929, second car imported to India for Prince Azam Jah of Hyderabad. Car said to have been scrapped in India but the engine was said to have been exported and surfaced in USA. No further details available.

It would be much appreciated if you guys can fill in the blanks. Pictures or links to the same will be much appreciated.

Regards


WASIF AHMED
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