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Ethanol makes my cars inoperable
- Tom Georgeson
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- Josh Malks
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Josh B. Malks
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- Tom Georgeson
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I meant to ask if you have thermostats in your housings? Is your engine running when you put the infra-red gun on them? Could you be getting reading off your exhaust manifold that are slewing the reading? The thermostat housings are very close to the exhaust manifolds. It would seem that if the water in your top tank is 150-160 degrees you shouldn't worry!
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- Tom Georgeson
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I was told that it was a piston pump but looking at their info on it, it doesn't say that it is. I email them that question and will let all know when I find out. I like their E8902 as it's pressure is 2.5-4.0 PSI while their pump E8011 is 5.0=8.0 PSI, which is way too high.
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- Josh Malks
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And I would be careful about the dry intake manifold. After years of pondering I closed off the hoses between the thermostat housings and the intake manifold, as well as the hose from the manifold to the water pump. And the little drain hole that Tom mentions. My engine temp does appear to have dropped an average of about 10 degrees. That's good. But with the dash temp gauge at 160 after a long run last year, I used an infra-red gun to check temps. All parts of the cylinder heads and the radiator top tank were in the 150s to 160s. That's good too. But the thermostat housings (both) registered over 250 degrees! Don't know what's going on in there, but something doesn't like the dead end created when all the outlets are blocked. Remember that in stock form the water is always moving -- either thru the manifold or thru the radiator pipes. Opinions solicited.
Josh B. Malks
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- Tom Georgeson
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I'm not sure what you want to know. The pump I had been running was a 6 volt Carter rotary pump. When it quit working I started asking around. I found out that others had problems with them too. They seem to think that the rotary got gummed up and stopped turning. They had gone to the Airtex Products pump and were quite happy with it. It really puts out the fuel. Hope this answer your questions?
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- Tom Georgeson
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I was running a Carter electric pump for a number of years and it quit on me. I talked to others and found that they had the same problem. Seems that the rotary part of the pump would get gummed up or some thing and stop rotating. It was recommended that I use a 6 volt piston pump (Part #E8902) made by Airtex Products. It puts out 2.5-4.0 PSI. My local parts store couldn't get it for me so I order it by going to their web site. It really puts out the fuel.
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- mikespeed35
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CORDially Mike
Mike Huffman
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- Tom Georgeson
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- Tom_Parkinson
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Thank you for your reply, which is very much appreciated and respected.
As my Cord is not running yet (It's ONLY been 63 years since 1950 when it arrived at my dad's house on a hook!), I am planning proactively.
My current experiences, which are establishing my learning curve here, are occuring principally with my 1940 LaSalle. My 37 Buick has less of a problem along these lines, as its fuel pump is on the other side of the engine from the exhaust manifold. But on a hot day, even it asks for a 15 minute break once in a while.
Finding a cure (or a working management protocol) for issues with these cars should help me have my Cord's fuel system adjusted, modified, or whatever it takes, right from its initial start-up. Installing a Carter electric pump, insulating, and re-routing will certainly be easier now than later.
It is my goal to have the Cord self-propelling by the Reunion. I'd like to be comfortable with the knowledge that the potential fuel issues from low-boiling-point ethanol will be alleviated.
Thank you again for your reply, and thank to ALL who have replied. The Club and the Forum asre great sources of info!
--Tom
[edit note]: I just ordered the Carter 6V rotary vane fuel pump.
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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- Josh Malks
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Rerouted the gas line under the hood to keep it away from the exhaust manifold as much as possible.
Use a Carter rotary vane electric fuel pump, installed at the gas tank.
Bypass the top-mounted fuel pump (it's nothing but a heat exchanger anyway).
Added a phenolic "gasket" under the carb.
Driven many thousands of miles since ethanol became the norm in California 10 years ago, without many problems attributable to fuel. And if it does have a problem with percolation, vapor lock, overheating, etc., stop and let it cool down. It's older than many of the drivers, for heaven's sake!
Drive more, wring hands less.
Josh B. Malks
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- mikespeed35
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CORDially Mike
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- Greg Frownfelter
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trans mission fluid seems to work also
this raises the boiling point and helps with the vapor lock
it has worked for me
greg
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- Tom_Parkinson
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I checked the site sans the extension at the end of the url. "pure-gas.org" allowed me to search by state, and I found half a dozen sources within 25 miles of Niles, MI, in both Indiana (including the BP that you refered me to) and Michigan. Mostly they are marine-grade gas, which is fine by me, and I don't know--or much care--about the price. I suspect that the classic car hobby will be actively searching out marine-gas suppliers as the ethanol content is increased in our fuels.
I'll have the LaSalle's electric pump run the tank dry (The modern cars will run OK on this stuff), and I'll make a gas can run to one of the stations to bring home 10 gallons to get me going.
As for other contributions to the management of this matter, I have added insulation to the supply and delivery side of the fuel line, insulated the exhaust manifold near the fuel pump, insulated the fuel pump, and--what the heck, I was all greasy by then anyway--pulled the distributor to repair the vacuum advance, (even though the engine was not running hot), installed new points and a new condensor.
I have sketched out an fuel line cooling coil for possible addition between the grille and radiator in front of the engine compartment. Hopefully having pure gas will not make this extreme step necessary!
Thanks to all who have replied to this issue. Ethanol as an issue will not be going away, and our hobby will have to be able to respond to it.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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- silverghost
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With the new federally imposed mandate the ethanol percentage will soon be going up to 15% !
This is really becomming a major operational issue for me also.
I find that the information on that ethanol free fuel wesite is not at all up to date~~~or accurate !
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- Justin Kerns
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Have you tried this website? It maps ethanol free gas stations. Zoom in to your area and then click on one of the blue pins to see the details. Often times there may be only one grade that is ethanol free. In my quick look I saw a BP in South Bend that has 93 octane ethanol free. Might be worth checking out.
[url:1fkuifw0]http://pure-gas.org[/url:1fkuifw0]
Justin
Justin
1932 Auburn 12-160A Sedan
1933 Auburn 12-161A Sedan
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- Tom_Parkinson
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Can't find any ethanol-free gasoline near South Bend, IN,/Niles, MI area. The closest thing to it that I found is the Niles Marathon, where the owner told me 1) virtually all gasoline is spiked with [i:sibzi788]some[/i:sibzi788] ethanol, and 2) his Marathon gas has no more than 2% ethanol in it.
I guess I'll insulate, insulate, and insulate, maybe buy a premium grade, and see where that takes me.
I HAVE installed a thicker insulation gasket under the carburetor in the LaSalle, as was advised by Cadillac way back when (40's?).
We'll see how it goes.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
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- Chris Summers
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It's 91-octane and was $4.81 a gallon (compared to $4.25 for unleaded regular)...but what price functional car?
Chris Summers
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So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
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- auburnandyscar
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[urlhttp://www.countrymark.com/countrymark/Fuels/gasoline/ethanol-free.aspx[/url]
Sorry couldn't get the clickable link to work
Check out my build at:
www.1932auburnsedan.com
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- landmark
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Tom_Parkinson wrote: Hi,
I have two roadworthy pre-WW2 cars-a 40 Lasalle and a 37 Buick. My Cord will be roadworthy within the year. Both active cars have become virtually inoperable due to fuel boiling in the fuel pump and/or carburetor. Apparently around here in SW Michigan and North Central Indiana, we can't get real gasoline--instead we get gasohol cut 10% with ethanol. I have insulated the exhaust manifolds, installed heat shields, insulated supply and delivery fuel lines, and turned the ambient air ice-blue with cussing. The Boil-o-hol keeps on boiling.
The gasohol has a significantly lower boing point than real gasoline, and therein lies the problem. So I have some questions:
1) Does anyone know of a source of ethanol-free gasoline in SW Michigan/North-Central Indiana?
2) Would using a premium grade of gasohol help with the boiling problem?
3) Does anyone know of an additive that will raise the boiling point of the gasohol to a level more like real gasoline?
This problem is putting my continuation in the old car hobby at risk. I want drivable cars, not flower planters. Does anyone have a solution?
Thanks,
--Tom
Hello Tom,
have you insulated the carburetor (against the manifold/engineheat) itself too?
What will work is a plate of paper/phenolic sheets. In Germany the material is known as Pertinax another name is Paxoline.
Here is an Information Link in english language www.emsai.co.uk/pertinax-bakelit ... sheets.php
That (cut out) sheet will be mounted like the gasket, in addition to the gasket(s) between carb and intake-manifold. You can use a gasket as a template for to cut out the needed holes (Throat- and mounting-screw-holes).
Maybe, (because of the changed position/distance between carb and manifold/engine) the carburetor/throttle lever mechanism has to be adjusted.
Cheers
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut
Wilhelm Busch
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- Tom_Parkinson
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I have two roadworthy pre-WW2 cars-a 40 Lasalle and a 37 Buick. My Cord will be roadworthy within the year. Both active cars have become virtually inoperable due to fuel boiling in the fuel pump and/or carburetor. Apparently around here in SW Michigan and North Central Indiana, we can't get real gasoline--instead we get gasohol cut 10% with ethanol. I have insulated the exhaust manifolds, installed heat shields, insulated supply and delivery fuel lines, and turned the ambient air ice-blue with cussing. The Boil-o-hol keeps on boiling.
The gasohol has a significantly lower boing point than real gasoline, and therein lies the problem. So I have some questions:
1) Does anyone know of a source of ethanol-free gasoline in SW Michigan/North-Central Indiana?
2) Would using a premium grade of gasohol help with the boiling problem?
3) Does anyone know of an additive that will raise the boiling point of the gasohol to a level more like real gasoline?
This problem is putting my continuation in the old car hobby at risk. I want drivable cars, not flower planters. Does anyone have a solution?
Thanks,
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International
See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE
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