W-24 Cylinder Duesenberg Gold Cup Raceboat Engine

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09 Jan 2012 14:25 #21869 by silverghost
silverghost created the topic: W-24 Cylinder Duesenberg Gold Cup Raceboat Engine
I also collect & restore Antique mahogany & early fiberglass boats.
While doing some research this past weekend I came across a mention of a Duesenberg built W-24 Cylinder Gold Cup Raceboat engine built in 1927.
For those of you who might wish to view the web-link I discovered~

http://www.lesliefield.com/other_histor ... _to_se.htm

The author of this web-link mentions that in 1927 Horace Dodge, playboy son of one of the Dodge Brothers, and Gold Cup boat racer, placed a "Custom Order" for two Gold Cup raceboat engines, & spare parts, from the Duesenberg brothers for his famous "Delphine" Gold Cup race boat.

W-24 Engine Specifications~
24 Cylinders
Three straight eight blocks bolted to a common crankcase.
On block mounted straight up, two mounted at 45* angles in a "W" formation.
2 7/8 " inch bore
4" stroke
623 Cu. In.
Horsepower ???
Double overhead cams on each block.
96 valves total

This engine design was unsuccessful for Horace Dodge as it failed to finish the Gold Cup boat race.

In 1935 Dodge sold these unique super engines to fellow Gold Cup racer Herbert Mendelson for use in his "Notre Dame" Gold Cup raceboat.
He added a centrifugal supercharger blower and pushed the horsepower up to 700 @ 4600 RPM.
Strangely with only 24 cylinders it had 30 exhaust pipe stacks ! ?
This boat raced again in 1940 & 1947.

Do any ACD forum members, & readers , know any more about this unique W-24 cylinder Duesenberg Gold Cup raceboat engine ?

Are there any existing photos of this unique W-24 cylinder engine; or these Gold Cup raceboats with these fantastic engines installed ?

Are there any other Duesenberg race boat engines, or just Duesenberg/ Lycoming marine engines, still surviving today ?

Any & all info, & Duesenberg engine/raceboat photo posts greatly appreciated .

Thank's~

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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09 Jan 2012 15:56 #21870 by RandyEma
RandyEma replied the topic:
Brad . Simply put Yes they were built and run and yes they still exist. Randy

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09 Jan 2012 22:12 #21874 by Steve Derus
Steve Derus replied the topic:
found this on a google search, don't know if its the 24 cylinder motor.


Steve

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09 Jan 2012 23:30 #21877 by RandyEma
RandyEma replied the topic:
Yes it is

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10 Jan 2012 16:40 #21881 by landmark
landmark replied the topic: Re: W-24 Cylinder Duesenberg Gold Cup Raceboat Engine

silverghost wrote: I also collect & restore Antique mahogany & early fiberglass boats.
While doing some research this past weekend I came across a mention of a Duesenberg built W-24 Cylinder Gold Cup Raceboat engine built in 1927.
For those of you who might wish to view the web-link I discovered~

http://www.lesliefield.com/other_histor ... _to_se.htm

The author of this web-link mentions that in 1927 Horace Dodge, playboy son of one of the Dodge Brothers, and Gold Cup boat racer, placed a "Custom Order" for two Gold Cup raceboat engines, & spare parts, from the Duesenberg brothers for his famous "Delphine" Gold Cup race boat.

W-24 Engine Specifications~
24 Cylinders
Three straight eight blocks bolted to a common crankcase.
On block mounted straight up, two mounted at 45* angles in a "W" formation.
2 7/8 " inch bore
4" stroke
623 Cu. In.
Horsepower ???
Double overhead cams on each block.
96 valves total

This engine design was unsuccessful for Horace Dodge as it failed to finish the Gold Cup boat race.

In 1935 Dodge sold these unique super engines to fellow Gold Cup racer Herbert Mendelson for use in his "Notre Dame" Gold Cup raceboat.
He added a centrifugal supercharger blower and pushed the horsepower up to 700 @ 4600 RPM.
Strangely with only 24 cylinders it had 30 exhaust pipe stacks ! ?
This boat raced again in 1940 & 1947.

Do any ACD forum members, & readers , know any more about this unique W-24 cylinder Duesenberg Gold Cup raceboat engine ?

Are there any existing photos of this unique W-24 cylinder engine; or these Gold Cup raceboats with these fantastic engines installed ?

Are there any other Duesenberg race boat engines, or just Duesenberg/ Lycoming marine engines, still surviving today ?

Any & all info, & Duesenberg engine/raceboat photo posts greatly appreciated .

Thank's~



Hello Silverghost,

you can find an article and two more photos of that 24 Cyl. W-engine in "Automobile quarterly -Volume 30, Number 4 (Summer 1992)" on page 18 and 19.

The photos show the front view with supercharger (directly driven by the crankshaft?) carburator (with airfilter) and the three (magneto?) ignition units driven by the camshaft-(driving)-chain(s).

In the article it was said that a sum about $ 32500 was agreed between Dodge and both Duesenberg brothers (Augie was involved in that project) for the construction and building of two of these engines.
Unfortunately the engines had never worked as expected... But nevertheless Mr. Dodge paid $ 30500 in six payments spread out until end of august 1926.

Later, in 1931, Augie Duesenberg tried (without success) to get the "missing" :rolleyes:$ 2000 plus a couple of hundreds dollars for his expences from Mr. Dodge.

Here is the reply to that request -written by W. M. Horn, secretary and treasurer of the Dodge boat and plane Co.

"This is certainly new to me, as I understood Mr. Dodge already had paid you more than the correct price.
As I personally sum up the entire dealings pertaining to the 24 cyl. Duesenbergs, I can only say it was most disastous for Mr. Dodge. If you had been dealing with anyone else, I am sure the motors would have been returned and suit instituted to refund the money."



Matt

P.S.: Onthe last page (p.112) of the Automobile quarterly edition there is an article about a raceboat "Disturber IV" from 1913, powered by two 12 cyl. inline Duesenberg walking beam engines. That boat set several world records at that time.

Data for a single engine:

12 cyl. inline (six blocks of two cyl.)

Bore: 6 3/4 inch

Stroke: 7 1/2 inch

Total displacement: 3219 cubic inches (per engine)

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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10 Jan 2012 17:48 #21882 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic:
Randy, Steve, & Matt~~~

Thank's for the info and reply.
That's a great photo of the Duesenberg W-24 .

I sure would like to see the crankshaft configuration that The Duesenberg Brothers used on the W-24 beast.

It would appear that most of the problem issues that Horace Dodge had with the W-24 were later successfuly solved by later Gold Cup raceboat racer/owners.

Horace Dodge owned & built many world class raceboats in his day~~~
He also built the "Dodge Watercar" a line of mahogany runabout boats that he built in his own boat factory.
He intended these boats to be sold at Dodge automobile dealers alongside of the Dodge autos.
He wished to build production boats just like his father & uncle built the Dodge automobile.
The boats came as a turn-key package with a trailer.
Many of these boats used the small Dodge auto engines ; as well as the much larger & higher powered Lycoming engines.
These boats sported a "Dodge Lady" mascott on top of the bow's nickel plated brass cutwater trim.
When the "Dodge Watercar Boat Co. finally financially failed Dodge sold the entire factory & it's contents of tooling, jigs, patterns , woodworking equipment & & mahogany & white oak wood to Gar Wood the famous boat-racer , boatbuilder & hydraulic truck & equipment industrialist.
Gar Wood made a grand success out of this failed Dodge boatbuilding factory.
His "GarWood" boats are in very high demand today among collectors.

Very few of Horace Dodge's "Watercars" are know to survive today.
I believe only a dozen, or so, originals exist ?

I remember well one fine example sitting in the North Point Lagoon Ocean City Nj. in the 50s-60s-early 70s.
That boat sadly was cut-up with a chainsaw & went to the boat-yard's "burn pile" in the mid-1970s as nobody wanted to save it.
We had one of our boats in that very yard and saw the pile of cut-up mahogany planking.
I salvaged & still have the 6-volt vintage boat "Sparton" (Sparks Worthington Co.) 1920s deck siren from that very Dodge boat to this day.

Dodge lost a geat deal of cash on this ill-fated production boat-building venture.

Horace Dodge lived in a smaller modest home on his mother's grand large estate.
She controlled his trust fund inherited from his late father~~~one of the Dodge Brothers.
She cut him off financially several times because of his wild out of control spending on his raceboats, high powered fast automobiles, along with his ultra high living socialite & party lifestyle.

Dodge was a real playboy and spent tons of cash on his race boat & fast expensive automobile obsessions.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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