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The 'Castle' 1921 Duesenberg Straight 8 Model A (Model J par

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26 Jan 2014 17:44 #26782 by 61xlch
Replied by 61xlch on topic Re: Crankshaft and weak motor block

Bob Roller wrote: Andy,
IF the whole assembly is REALLY balanced,rods,crankshaft,flywheel,clutch,pressure plate and maybe a vibration* dampener on the front of the crankshaft,it should be alright
Any vibration would soon start to damage those 3 mainbearings.
What does the crankshaft on that "A"engine weigh by itself and is the bolt pattern in the flywheel irregular so it goes on the crankshaft only one way
like the "J" does.It was probably balanced as if it were one piece when it was new.
*I don't know if these engines had a vibration dampener or not.

Bob Roller


As far as I know, no dampener. The weight of the crankshaft and the flywheel bolt pattern I don?t know right know, but will check it out.
Anyway, I won?t rev it higher than necessary for normal street cruising, no racing intentions. This should be the key for a long lasting engine life.

Andy

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  • Bob Roller
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26 Jan 2014 17:29 #26780 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Crankshaft and weak motor block
Andy,
IF the whole assembly is REALLY balanced,rods,crankshaft,flywheel,clutch,pressure plate and maybe a vibration* dampener on the front of the crankshaft,it should be alright
Any vibration would soon start to damage those 3 mainbearings.
What does the crankshaft on that "A"engine weigh by itself and is the bolt pattern in the flywheel irregular so it goes on the crankshaft only one way
like the "J" does.It was probably balanced as if it were one piece when it was new.
*I don't know if these engines had a vibration dampener or not.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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26 Jan 2014 13:40 #26773 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Comparing engines,eras and products of eras
When the quality of oils,bearings and crankshaft finishes are factored in,it is a minor miracle that any of these WW1 era engines finished a race.
I have wondered for years about the oil used in the Duesenberg Special in 1935.Is there any data on it from any source?
I have never seen a Model "A" Duesenberg engine taken apart so can't really comment about the three main bearings but I do know others used it in 6 cylinder engines. The Chandler is one I'm familiar with and that was appalled at the flimsy construction of the bottom side of this engine.
I would think adding 2 more crank journals would be a bit much.Just how
well did these engines hold up in every day use? I think about 650 were made and that is many more than the "J". One thing is sure,old E.L.Cord had the right idea,tromp it and go in the grand manner.Lots of fun and I speak from experience.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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26 Jan 2014 10:37 #26769 by 61xlch
I am just rebuilding a Model A engine and I was really frightened about the fragile engine housing, combined with a really huge and heavy crankshaft with only 3 main bearings. Combined with an extraorinary long stroke and pretty sleek connecting rods a bad qualification for high revs and much power. This stands in contrast with the otherwise very progressive layout of these engines.
But keep in mind, this engine was created in the late teens, you can?t compare it to an engine from 1941! This is nearly as much difference in time between the first automobiles and the Duesy A engine.
Cheers
Andy

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26 Jan 2014 04:07 #26768 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic Nine mains
Bob,

Agreed, no substitute for greater bearing surface in long engines with long rods. In Fred's defense, the A was developed from their 3 valve racing engine & designed mainly for speed. As others had said, they were interested in road cars only to support racing.

As to the J ? Well.... the boss wanted that one.

Mike
8-100A

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24 Jan 2014 16:39 #26742 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic fine engines
To me the 9 mainbearings of the Nash were a much better idea than that spindly crank with 3 mains that the early Duesenbergs used. The big 9 main bearing Packards I always thought were a better idea than the 5 mains of the "J".
Matt.
Ein koenigswelle oder nockenwelle ohne zundkette aber mit triebwerk.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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  • Mike Dube
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24 Jan 2014 14:22 #26741 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic Re: Small displacement engines

Bob Roller wrote: Years ago,about 57 of them,a close friend had a pristine 1941 Nash 600
with a straight eight engine and an overdrive transmission.This engine was about 260 CID and had the valves in the head,sixteen spark plugs and nine main bearings and held about ten quarts of oil.I considered it a superior car to the 1937 Cadillac V12,Series 85 sedan I owned at that time.
The Nash was smooth running and with the overdrive engaged could get twenty miles per gallon on the road. Not bad for a car some considered as inferior.

Bob Roller


I'm with you Bob,

In my experience, folks who appreciate engineering agree: that dual ignition ohv Nash was one heck of an engine.

Mike
8-100A

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24 Jan 2014 13:44 #26740 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: Early Duesenberg

Bob Roller wrote: I have always liked the cycle fenders on some of these cars. If I had more money that organized crime and religion,I'd buy a "J" and restyle it to incorporate these fenders.
What was the CID of these old engines anyway.I don't think any of them were even 300 CID.

Bob Roller



Hello Bob,

like Mike said before the CID would be 260 cui.

If I remember it right, the engine has a two valve, (single) overhead-camshaft-head with spherical combusting chambers. The camshaft is driven by a vertical driveshaft (with bevel gears) a so called "K?nigswelle".
Single updraft carb (1.5' ?), three main bearing crankshaft, compression ratio 5:1 and the power output was rated at 88 hp at 3600 rpm. (source: automobile quarterly Vol 30. No. 4)

Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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24 Jan 2014 03:40 #26739 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Small displacement engines
Years ago,about 57 of them,a close friend had a pristine 1941 Nash 600
with a straight eight engine and an overdrive transmission.This engine was about 260 CID and had the valves in the head,sixteen spark plugs and nine main bearings and held about ten quarts of oil.I considered it a superior car to the 1937 Cadillac V12,Series 85 sedan I owned at that time.
The Nash was smooth running and with the overdrive engaged could get twenty miles per gallon on the road. Not bad for a car some considered as inferior.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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23 Jan 2014 21:39 #26736 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic Dues A displacement
Nowhere near 300 cid, more like 260.

Mike
8-100A

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22 Jan 2014 15:52 #26726 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Early Duesenberg
I have always liked the cycle fenders on some of these cars. If I had more money that organized crime and religion,I'd buy a "J" and restyle it to incorporate these fenders.
What was the CID of these old engines anyway.I don't think any of them were even 300 CID.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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  • Mike Dube
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22 Jan 2014 15:20 #26724 by Mike Dube
Supposedly not for sale anyway. These value prognosticators are the scourge of the hobby.

Mike
8-100A

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22 Jan 2014 15:08 #26722 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic preposterous price
Proves or would prove old P.T.Barnum was right beyond a doubt.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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21 Jan 2014 16:24 #26716 by Steve Derus
There's a seat for every ass.

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21 Jan 2014 15:11 #26714 by JOEL GIVNER
Replied by JOEL GIVNER on topic castle car
You have to sell a lot of fruit to make $50M

JEG

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21 Jan 2014 14:34 #26713 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Preposterous value
Mike,
Someone that can write a check and have the bank bounce instead of the check might do something that silly just to show it can be done.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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20 Jan 2014 23:13 #26711 by mikespeed35
I think there value estimate is just slightly optimistic!
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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20 Jan 2014 20:30 #26710 by 61xlch
great video, thanks!
Andy

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  • landmark
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19 Jan 2014 14:43 #26698 by landmark
>Hello,

here is a video about that Model A



Cheers

Natt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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29 Jul 2013 16:03 #25639 by jamesbartlett
Replied by jamesbartlett on topic Model J Headlights
Can you send me a photo of the headlights?

Thanks.

James Bartlett
<a href="mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]
832-606-7599 (cell)

'35 Auburn S/C Convert. Sedan
'32 Duesenberg D/C Phaeton

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25 Jul 2013 21:02 #25622 by RichardLane
Well, it didn't take long. But, an avid, individual collector has stepped forward with an "open checkbook" wishing to purchase all of our take off parts from the 'Castle' Duesenberg. As inviting as that sounds, we must respect fair and honest business practices. So we are looking to the Duesenberg, classic and antique car community to assist us in determining the current market value of these parts. While my post of yesterday indicated the primary parts that we currently have photographed for sale, I'll be posting a list of all parts soon as well as some representative photos. Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated. Keep watching...

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25 Jul 2013 16:38 #25621 by Mike Dube
Hi Richard,

Many of us are following your progress, thanks for the heads up on the new pics.

Mike
8-100A

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25 Jul 2013 00:08 #25618 by RichardLane
Hey folks, I may be a newbie here, but surely most, if not all Duesie fans, will be familiar with the vehicle of which I speak. I work at Canepa Design in Scotts Valley, CA, where the 1919 or 1921 (depending on who you speak to), Duesenberg Straight 8 or Model A (depending on who you speak to), chassis #601 and engine #1001 or chassis #602 and engine #1000 (depending on who you speak to), is painstakingly and lovingly being returned to its original configuration after the circa 1927 conversion/upgrade to many model J parts. While some information regarding this vehicle may still be in question, information I've garnered thus far, leads me to refer to it as a 1921 Duesenberg Straight 8 Model A with body by Bender, chassis #601 and engine #1001 (chassis and engine numbers confirmed by the original identification plate).The primary parts changed were; tires, Buffalo Wire wheels, ft. hubs, rear axles with hubs, front and rear bumpers, headlamps, some steering components, as well as a few other items changed along the way. Regardless, as this vehicle progresses through the restoration process, a few parts have become available to help some other Duesenberg owner complete their Model J projects. In particular the parts we are currently looking to determine a value and ultimately sell are both front, dual-post mount, headlamps (Guide Lamp we believe, based on markings on the reflector bucket and lenses - although some have reported, based on old photos, that they may be early C.M. Hall or Bausch and Lomb) and the fender to fender mounting bar with four posts. Also, the front and rear, upper and lower bumpers, retaining plates with hardware and mounting brackets. And, both front wheel hubs with Wire Wheel Corp of A. Buffalo NY (Buffalo Wire Wheel) C6 wheel locks, both rear axles (hollow) with integral hubs and Buffalo C6 wheel lock (all wheel locks carry the Duesenberg name plate in the center of the cap). And to top it off, all six matching Buffalo 78 spoke wire wheels with tires (note: five tires are Firestone High Speed Gum Dipped Heavy Duty 6-Ply and one is a U.S. Royal Tempered Rubber Heavy Duty 6-Ply, all are 7.00-19 and black-wall. Also the tires allegedly pre-date WWII and thus are suitable for show purpose only). I have pictures available to anyone who is interested. If you can help me with determining a value, or may be interested in purchasing these parts for your own project or inventory, please contact me via the links on this forum. Thanks for reading. P.S., the car is nearing completion and we will be posting more photos of it here and at our company website: www.canepa.com

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