Rudolph Valentino Duesenberg Model "A" ?

  • Bob Roller
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15 May 2013 14:03 #25194 by Bob Roller
Bob Roller replied the topic: Valentino and his cars
I was also under the impression that he had an Isotta-Fraschini limo and recall seeing a picture of him exiting the car.

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  • Chris Summers
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15 May 2013 20:45 #25195 by Chris Summers
Chris Summers replied the topic:
He had two I-Fs we know of, a Town Car and a Roadster (the latter not delivered before he died). Both Fleetwood-bodied and both still exist; there are two similar town cars, both of which claim to be his.

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16 May 2013 00:07 #25196 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic:
At the time of his death Valentino's estate was heavily in debt (300,000+) so there is some reasonable doubt that he could have actually have really paid for these fine autos he is said to have ordred in 1925/1926 !

Valentino was one of the biggest box office stars & heart throbs of his day. He was bigger than Elvis in his day !
It may be reasonable to assume that many so-called "Valentino artifacts" sold after his passing were just fakes passed-off as his own personal items.
It was said that fans would come to his Falcon Lair estate after his untimely passing and the estate's gardeners would sell them bogus Valentino artifacts & clothing etc to make themselves some quick fast cash $$$.
Some workers were in fact fired for doing just this.

I suspect that some autos said to have been once owned by Valentino might have been sold in the same bogus manner.
Today these bogus autos still have some sort of questionable Valentino connection that cannot ever be proven; or dis-proven.

If he was seen riding in, or standing near, some fine auto it automatically became His auto~~~It did not matter if he really indeed owned it~~~or Not !

I think if it's a 1925/1926 auto in question , and it was not actually listed in his estate probate records, there is a very high chance that he never actually really ever owned it nor rode in it during his lifetime !
There is a great catalogue that was sold during his estate auction that lists Every item down to the very last simple kitchen knife & fork he actually owned at his passing!
Many items are actually photographed & appear in this estate auction catalogue.
These Valentino estate auction catalogues pop-up from time to time for sale at auction sites on the web to this very day.

As far as the 1925/1926 autos in question themselves~~~
He may have possibly have ordered them; but never actually taken delivery, or actually paid for them, before his passing ?
It's anyone's guess as to some of these so called "Valentino" autos true original ownership however .

Here is a super Fleetwood Coachwork factory history web link.
I have personally been past the Fleetwood Pa Coachwork factory building complex many times over the years~~~
Sadly in Dec. of 2006 most of the factory buildings sadly burned down~~~long since having been abandoned !

This great Fleetwood coachwork link talks about Valentino's Isotta~Fraschini Roadster/Coupe' and the fact that he had actually forgotten he had ordered & had not actually ever payed for it.
So as a result construction of the custom coachwork roadster/coupe' body was stopped awaiting future Valentino payments.
It was finally completed after his death~
It then appeared at the Winter 1927 New York Hotel Auto Salon Show.
There it still remained unsold after the Salon Show.
It was later sold in late 1927, long after his death,~~~then once again went into dealer re-possession again in 1928 by the New York City Isotta~Fraschini dealership because the car's second owner still owed $4000. on it's outstanding sale's bill.
This second owner had given it away as a gift to a woman without fully paying the New York City I~F dealer for the auto !

http://www.fleetwoodpa.org/fleetwood-body-detailed.htm

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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16 May 2013 04:22 #25197 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic:
Back to my original forum question as to Rudolph Valentino possibly owning a Model "A" Duesenberg~

During several days of web searches (as you can see I now have Way too much free time on my hands )
I have found very little , if any real proof, of Valentino ever owning such a model "A" Duesenberg auto.
And~~
Randy Ema, who would really know if Anyone would,~~~ stated a very simiar opinion.

BUT~~~I have also discovered
Valentino did in fact often "borrow" fine autos ,during the early to mid-1920s time period, mostly from various very wealthy elderly female socialite friends whome he taught dancing ie: the tango,; and also from fellow high-profile actors .
In his home state of Calif. he was known to crash & destroy a number of fine fast autos during this time period leading up to his summer 1926 death. It is said he often "borrowed" friend's cars while his were "out-of-action" due to his crashing them.
It was often said that he was Not a drinker~~~
Possibly not~~~but one has to wonder ?
What actually caused the severe stomach lining ulcers & resulting raging septic infection that would eventually kill him ?
As for the explantion often given for his many car crashes & speeding citations~~~
It has been said that his various car crashes were due to his very poor eyesight coupled with his love for speeding in very high powered expensive exotic autos. ~~~
At least that was what the studio publicity agents told the newspapers in the day.

In several car crash cases he, & his passengers, were totally ejected from crashed cars~and luckily all walked away !
This crash ejection scenario history happened yet again shortly before his last ill-fated fatal trip to New York City in Summer 1926 while on a movie publicity tour.
On his many trips to New York City, and other eastern US cities, and while traveling in Europe to buy antiques, tour, and visit family & friends, he would often be seen behind the wheel of many a "borrowed" fine expensive auto.
The fine autos he was always seen in always suited his big-time Movie Star image.

Perhapps that Model "A" Duesenberg that he is often today seen pictured in, or standing near, with 1923 D.C. plates, is such a "borrowed" friend's fine auto ? ? ?

Here is that photo link below of Rudolph Valentino standing next to a Duesenberg Model "A" from 1923 with D.C. plates.
It's a shame we cannot trace auto plates from 1923 ~~~? ? ? Or can we ?

These are the two "Valentino" /Duesenberg "A" photos that started my above post & resulting quest & research ~~~~


http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/npcc/08500/08562v.jpg

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/npcc/08500/08564v.jpg

ENJOY ! ! !
BRAD~~~

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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16 May 2013 11:16 #25198 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic:
There is also another weblink with a great profile view of Valentino actually sitting in this car on my office computer.
I will soon post that weblink also !

More photos to come of still a second confirmed Valentino Isotta Fraschini formal towncar~
& also another outside color photo of the never delivered Valentino Isotta~Fraschini roadste/coupe' .
Also the photo with Valentino in coveralls "Working" on his Rear end Diff Gear assembly !
Stay Tuned !
Thank You !
BRAD~

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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17 May 2013 07:16 #25201 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic:
The Luray Caverns Car and Carriage Caravan Museum claims on their website that Valentino intentionally ordered this special alligatored cracked paint job to simulate leather~~~

They Do Indeed have a very fine collection of cars & carriages~~~
I urge everyone to see it themselves first hand !
I saw it personally years ago~
It is very nice indeed !

BUT~~~
What do YOU think about this strange alligatored paint claim ?
To me it is simply just very old badly shrunk & cracked paint made worse by long term exposure to engine & radiator heat.

http://cdn2.vtourist.com/4/3052731-1925 ... _luray.jpg

The Valentino estate's auction catalog & paperwork + his probate records do not show Valentino as ever really owning this car in his lifetime ? !
I, and noted Valentino experts know of existing NO photos of him in, or near this Rolls~Royce auto.
Extant Springfield Mass. Rolls~Royce Of America Factory records cannot confirm his actual ownership !

One has to now ask~~~
What real proof, or documentation, does the Luray Museum have to have been making these strange alligatored paint & , actual Valentino ownership claims, on this fine old auto for many decades ?
I do however hope that they can soon post a forum reply to help Valentino fans, and auto collectors like us, confirm this great auto's true Rudolph Valentino history.
It would be Great to finally hear that the Museum's Valentino ownership claims were indeed true ~~~after All ! ! !

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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