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My Father's Duesenberg

  • Steve Derus
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25 Sep 2019 00:20 #38433 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic could this possibly be J565, not J533?
Thanks Chris. Back in the day there was no Hemmings, no auctions, and very few dealers. The main marketplace for classics was the Sunday edition of the LA Times classifieds and it wasn't uncommon to see more than one Duesenberg advertised. My Dad and I always got the paper early and tried to act quickly when an interesting car was listed and were first on the scene to buy J533. Unfortunately being a weekend we didn't have cash with us so we had to drive back to Venice to borrow it from a friend. By the time we got back
Mr. Merkes had brought the car. Why my Dad didn't leave a deposit to secure the car I'll never know. At the time we didn't know it was one of the Gatsby movie cars. I do remember removing the tarp and how breathtaking the car was. It wasn't really in bad shape as can be seen in the photo.

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  • Chris Summers
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23 Sep 2019 16:48 #38427 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic could this possibly be J565, not J533?
Sorry gentlemen, I missed this post or I would've responded with the photo Steve mentioned more quickly.

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  • RandyEma
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01 Sep 2019 20:54 #38148 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic could this possibly be J565, not J533?
Yes those photos are 533

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  • Steve Derus
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01 Sep 2019 02:22 #38146 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic could this possibly be J565, not J533?
Please disregard my last post on this topic I was wrong. Chris maybe you could share that pic?

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31 Aug 2019 04:43 #38141 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic could this possibly be J565, not J533?
There was an ACD club facebook page video of J565 at Auburn a few days ago that has me confused and wondering if the car that Mr. Marshall's father owned was J565?

My posts on this thread suggested it was J533 that was for sale in the 1950's in Malibu that my dad missed out on. I distinctly remember seeing it and I had a photo we took but I gave it to Chris Summers. I thought Dad told me that JB Nethercutt bought it so I always assumed the car I saw was J533, but now I'm doubting my memory, What I do know for sure is the car I saw in Malibu was Mr. Marschall's car, since the history he provided in this thread matches up. Wondering if you can clear up which car Mr. Marshall owned J533 or J565? I guess both cars appeared in Great Gatsby? Thanks

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  • landmark
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13 Aug 2013 21:37 #25721 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Re: My Father's Duesenberg

Commodore wrote: My father had a Duesenberg up until 1955. Recently I came across some old photos of his Duesenberg. So I am posting them here in hopes that someone can tell me something about the car. Also, family lore has it that the car appeared in the 1949 movie version of the ?The Great Gatsby?. Does anyone know whether a Duesenberg appeared in this movie and which car it was?

Steve Marshall



Hello Commodore,

maybe there is (on page 108) a short (letter) remark written by your father, about his Duesenberg experience, in the book "DUESENBERG - the mightiest American Motorcar" by J.L. Elbert

In the early 50ies Mr. Elbert sent a form letter (to several persons who have had a Duesenberg car), in which he requested owners remarks and recollections about their Duesenbergs.

A Mr.(?) C. Marschall aswered as follows: ..." I bought the car as a used one in Chicago in 1940... Being a used car, I don't suppose it was in especially good condition mechanically, allthough I never had any trouble with it and the appearance was good."

Kind Regards

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • mikespeed35
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31 Dec 2011 15:10 #21802 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic My Father's Duesenberg
On page 8 of "Auburn coart to coast 2011" you will see a similar photo, but with a different tree. There are several trees like that privatly owned, as was the one we drove through.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • silverghost
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31 Dec 2011 09:40 #21801 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Fantastic photos indeed !

A Wikipedia web search on the Wonona tunnel tree states that in 1881 the large tunnel was carved in this Giant Sequoia starting from an exsisting forrest fire scar by two men who were paid $75 for the carving job.
The tree started to lean almost immediately after the tunnel was carved.
This tree stood in the Mariposa Grove at Yosemite National Park.
It was 227 foot tall & 95 foot in circumference. Sadly it fell due to heavy snow load in 1969; and was said to be approx 2300 years old at that time.
The remains of this fallen Giant Sequoia remain on the ground to this very day.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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  • landmark
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31 Dec 2011 07:21 #21800 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic My Father's Duesenberg

Commodore wrote: To finish off this topic, here are some photos of the car in Sequoia National Park, I think.


Hello

and thank you for sharing these very cool pictures.

How small this giant car looks underneath the sequoia trees. <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

It looks like the photos were not taken in Sequoia N.P. , but in its neighborhood, in Yosemite N.P..
The so called "Wawona (Tunnel) Tree" stood (until the late 1960s) in Yosemite N.P. In my opinion, one of the most beautyful places on earth.

Happy New Year!

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Steve Derus
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31 Dec 2011 03:37 #21793 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Absolutely fabulous!!!

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  • Chris Summers
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31 Dec 2011 02:25 #21792 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic My Father's Duesenberg
GREAT pictures! Thanks for sharing.

Chris Summers
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  • Commodore
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31 Dec 2011 02:14 #21791 by Commodore
Replied by Commodore on topic My Father's Duesenberg
To finish off this topic, here are some photos of the car in Sequoia National Park, I think.





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  • RandyEma
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29 Dec 2011 17:28 #21780 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Yes still in Pa

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  • silverghost
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29 Dec 2011 04:19 #21774 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Chris~~~
I am sure We saw J-565 here in my general Philly area several times in the 1970s.
Dad has some old faded Kodacolor prints of it from that time frame in his files.
I remember at least four photos~~~One shows it's engine's carb/manifold -side .
Another photo with Dad posing next to the front grill .
The others are general side &amp; front photos.

I will try to dig them out &amp; email them to you.

Might J-565 still be hidden away in Pennsylvania ?

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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  • Chris Summers
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29 Dec 2011 04:07 #21773 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Brad, I don't know the car's present whereabouts.

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29 Dec 2011 03:56 #21772 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Has J-565, the other Duesenberg "J" from the 1949 Gatsby movie, appeared at any ACD meets &amp; venues, or other car show events in the last few decades since the 1970s ?

I believe I remember seeing it in the general Philadelphia area many years ago at a car show event ?
I believe my late Father has several faded 1970s vintage photos of it in his office at home here.

Has it appeared in public lately ?
Or has it been hidden away in an auto museum, or some collector's private hidden collection ?

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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  • Steve Derus
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29 Dec 2011 03:26 #21771 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Thanks Steve for filling us in on some interesting history of your Father's car.

Steve

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  • Commodore
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29 Dec 2011 03:22 #21770 by Commodore
Replied by Commodore on topic My Father's Duesenberg

Steve Derus wrote: In 1955 I was ten years old, but I still remember seeing your father's car when it was in Topanga Canyon. Is that where your family lived at the time? If not, wondering if you know how the car came to be sitting there outside under a tarp? From your father's photos its clear he had a high regard for the car and took good care of it. It looked pretty neglected when I saw it.


Yes, we were living in Topanga at the time. As I understand it, there are three reasons why it ended up outside under a tarp. The first was that when my father rented the car to the movie studio, they painted the car cream and when they returned it they repainted it black, but the paint job was no way as good as the orginal Duesenberg paint job. Second, somebody stole the instruments (gauges) out of it. I was told by my mother that these instruments were not replaceable. Third, the car had some mechcanical issues. These things took the heart out of my father and when we moved to Topanga there was no place to store it. So it sat outside and deteriorated until he sold it.

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  • Chris Summers
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24 Dec 2011 03:35 #21724 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Steve, that is interesting you mention the drive from OH to CA. The original owner I have listed for the car is in OH. I always wondered about its accuracy given that all the other owners have been in CA/NV.

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24 Dec 2011 02:58 #21722 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Thanks Steve, that is great stuff.

In 1955 I was ten years old, but I still remember seeing your father's car when it was in Topanga Canyon. Is that where your family lived at the time? If not, wondering if you know how the car came to be sitting there outside under a tarp? From your father's photos its clear he had a high regard for the car and took good care of it. It looked pretty neglected when I saw it.


Regards,
Steve Derus

Also thanks for launching this thread, I've thoroughly enjoyed it and learned a thing or two.

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  • Commodore
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24 Dec 2011 01:59 #21721 by Commodore
Replied by Commodore on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Thanks everyone for the great information! Now to answer some questions. To Steve Derus, yes that was my father?s Duesenberg. Silverghost questions:

Do you have any idea when your Father first bought this super car?

No, but Mr. Summers says 1944.

Did he own it very long?

If Mr. Summers is correct eleven years. I know that my father drove it from Dayton Ohio to Los Angeles at least once.

Did you ever drive it yourself?

No, I was only six when my father sold it. I have no memory of ever riding in it.

How much did he sell it for used in 1955?

The figure my family has is $1200.

Does the Spanish style home in the last photo still exists today?

I don?t know. The only information on it I have is that it was located on Sierra Bonita St. in probably North Hollywood CA.

Do you know who this super Model "J" was originally built for?

There is a website that says that this car was built for Audrey Ruth Meyer. The wife of Forrest Edward Mars, Sr. who was the driving force behind the Mars candy empire.

Steve Marshall

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  • landmark
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23 Dec 2011 22:37 #21720 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic My Father's Duesenberg

janst wrote:

landmark wrote: In the movie it looks like the J-565 has a (doorlock) keyhole a few inches above the Doorhandle, which the J-533 (as shown on the photos) has not.
Matt


Matt,
I almost thought we have found some difference between these two cars, but as we can see in this photo, J-533 HAS the keyhole in the right door as it appears in the movie.
Now I checked the photos of all 4 of these Rollston CCs and all of them have the keyhole in the right door but in the left door not.



<!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->

Hello "eagle-eye" janst <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> :D you are right!


Merry Chrismas

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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23 Dec 2011 21:21 #21719 by
Replied by on topic My Father's Duesenberg

landmark wrote: In the movie it looks like the J-565 has a (doorlock) keyhole a few inches above the Doorhandle, which the J-533 (as shown on the photos) has not.
Matt


Matt,
I almost thought we have found some difference between these two cars, but as we can see in this photo, J-533 HAS the keyhole in the right door as it appears in the movie.
Now I checked the photos of all 4 of these Rollston CCs and all of them have the keyhole in the right door but in the left door not.

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  • landmark
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23 Dec 2011 12:21 #21717 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic My Father's Duesenberg

Chris Summers wrote: For those of you with the books, J-565 appears in "Automobile Quarterly" Vol. 30 No. 4, p. 78 ...



Hello,

that photo looks like it is from out of the Gatsby-Movie -The Gasstation scene.

In the movie it looks like the J-565 has a (doorlock) keyhole a few inches above the Doorhandle, which the J-533 (as shown on the photos) has not.

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Chris Summers
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22 Dec 2011 23:36 #21714 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic My Father's Duesenberg
For those of you with the books, J-565 appears in "Automobile Quarterly" Vol. 30 No. 4, p. 78 and on p. 62 of Malks's "Buyer's Guide."

Chris Summers
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  • Steve Derus
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22 Dec 2011 23:29 #21712 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Thanks Chris. I was going crazy there for a minute, thinking the Nethercutt Collection had both cars. I had not seen J533 with the current paint scheme.

So we still need a photo of J-565!!

Steve

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22 Dec 2011 23:22 #21711 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Steve, the photo Jan Stransky posted from conceptcarz.com is J-533 / 2561, the Hamilton/Merkes/Nethercutt/Harrah car, owned since 1984 by the Nethercutt Collection. It was for many years black with a beige interior, which is how it is still most often seen in pictures.

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22 Dec 2011 23:05 #21710 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Wow what a car.

In the film scene where the two cars appear together Barry Sullivan's line is

"Where did you get these two circus wagons?"

Blasphemy!!

Thanks for posting that photo Chris! By the way that's a California plate if that helps solve who owns it now.

Steve

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22 Dec 2011 19:59 #21708 by
Replied by on topic My Father's Duesenberg
J-533/2561

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  • Chris Summers
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22 Dec 2011 19:51 #21707 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Steve, that was bad information on my part. I don't know the car's current owner, however. The last source I have mentions it in PA in the 1970s. I have no recent pictures.

I believe that the two-tone car driven by Betty Field is J-565 / 2590 and that the car driven by Barry Sullivan is J-533 / 2561, based on what I know of their colors at the time the movie was made. If I'm wrong, then I welcome the correction.

The photo Jan posted below shows J-533 / 2561 as it appears presently.

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22 Dec 2011 19:41 #21706 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Also are there any recent photos of J565 that could be posted?

My files indicate that the car is in the care of Mr. Robert A. Stevens of Indiana but that might be incorrect.

Thanks
Steve

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22 Dec 2011 19:35 #21705 by
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Chris Summers wrote: I recall Randy mentioning that two JNs were used in the film.


and which is which? was there some difference between these two cars?

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  • Steve Derus
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22 Dec 2011 17:09 #21704 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Thanks Randy.

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  • RandyEma
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22 Dec 2011 16:30 #21703 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Yes it is J565

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22 Dec 2011 16:22 #21702 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Does someone know the identity of the second JN in the movie?



Steve

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  • Chris Summers
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22 Dec 2011 14:14 #21700 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Welcome to the Forum and thanks so much for sharing those great pictures!

My records show that D.F. Marshall of CA owned the car from 1944 to 1955.

I recall Randy mentioning that two JNs were used in the film.

I have Steve's family picture of this car but my scan of it was lost with my last computer. Once I get it scanned again in the future I'll be happy to post it.

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  • landmark
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22 Dec 2011 10:04 #21697 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Hello,

here is a link to a newer photo of J-533

duesey186.com/Datasheets/Model_J ... rm2561.htm

and one to the metioned part of the 1949 Gatsby movie. The Duesenberg-car sequence starts at 2.55 min.

... re=related



Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Steve Derus
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22 Dec 2011 04:52 #21696 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
This thread got my curiosity aroused so I found the you tube video of the Great Gatsby 1949 movie. The Duesenberg (or is it two Duesenbergs?) plays quite a featured role and is part of the plot.

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  • silverghost
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22 Dec 2011 04:44 #21695 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Steve~~~

What a stunning model "J" Duesenberg your Father once owned.
It's always great to see early period B&amp;W photos of these great autos when they were still in everyday use.
Thank's for posting these great photos.

I noted the unusual LH rear bumper bracket mounted radio antenna.

I really like the Model "J" with Wire Wheel covers also~~~
You don't often see them on the Buffalo Wire Wheel Corp of America wire wheels used on the Model "J"s that are in collections today.

Do you have any idea when your Father first bought this super car ?
Did he own it very long ?
Did you ever drive it yourself ?

How much did he sell it for used in 1955 ?
I'd bet sadly only a few hundred dollars ?

I also wonder if that great spanish style home in the last photo still exists today ?

Randy or Chris~~~
Do you know who this super Model "J" was originally built for ???
Anyone noteworthy ?

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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  • Steve Derus
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22 Dec 2011 02:10 #21694 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic My Father's Duesenberg
Steve,

I saw this car sometime around 1958, it was sitting outside under a tarp in the Malibu Canyon area of Southern California. It was for sale, my Dad and I took a photo of it, before he could get back to the seller with the money Marshall Merkes had snapped it up. Wonder if your father was the owner of the car at that time?

Its a lovely car and one of the main attractions at the Nethercutt Museum.

Regards,
Steve Derus

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22 Dec 2011 01:28 #21693 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic My Father's Duesenberg
YES THIS IS SN 2561 j533 AND WAS IN THE MOVIE GREAT GATSBY IT IS A ROLLSTON J.N CONVERTIBLE COUPE .THIS CAR WAS SOLD TO MARSHALL MERKES THEN TO J. B. NETHERCUTT THEN WM HARRAH THEN BACK TO J.B AND THE SHOWED IT AT PEBBLE BEACH THIS LAST SUMMER

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  • Commodore
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22 Dec 2011 01:16 #21691 by Commodore
My Father's Duesenberg was created by Commodore
My father had a Duesenberg up until 1955. Recently I came across some old photos of his Duesenberg. So I am posting them here in hopes that someone can tell me something about the car. Also, family lore has it that the car appeared in the 1949 movie version of the ?The Great Gatsby?. Does anyone know whether a Duesenberg appeared in this movie and which car it was?

Steve Marshall





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