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Duesenberg Auction watching/ predictions
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mikespeed35 wrote: That car, J365, was a no sale at 1.5M in TX.
CORDially Mike
Mike, thank you!
Cheers
Matt
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Steve Derus wrote: price seems low on J-512 to me, especially when compared to the Franay sedan at $1.65M earlier this year. A true SJ Beverly should be worth much more. Wasn't it Best of Show at ACD Festival a few years ago?
Hello,
the Franay car was offered again, last week @motostalgia auction during the formula-one race-weekend in Austin, Tx.
Unfortunately I have not found any information if the car has been sold or not and for what price (highest bid).
Matt
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I think it is 50/50 on the convertible/hardtop ratio over 2 million. Many of the Ferrari's are hard tops. The Wittel coupe was a hardtop. All the Tabot Largo and Delahaye that bring big money are hard tops.
It is totally about style, engine and provenance at the upper levels.
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landmark wrote: Hello,
J-512 a 1933 Duesenberg Model (S)J Murphy Beverly sold @RM New York auction for hammerprice of $ 1.6 Million
Far under its published estimate of $ 2 to 2.5 million.
www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063792
It is said that the car is equiped with an original supercharger, not a repro.
Cheers
Matt
Probaly because it is a closed car. Don't see too many cars without a folding top go for over a million, at least none that I've noticed.
That fact that it sold that far under the estimate tells me thet the seller didn't believe the estimate.
The fact that it sold for 1.6 million tells me that it must be an outstanding car!
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J-512 a 1933 Duesenberg Model (S)J Murphy Beverly sold @RM New York auction for hammerprice of $ 1.6 Million
Far under its published estimate of $ 2 to 2.5 million.
www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063792
It is said that the car is equiped with an original supercharger, not a repro.
Cheers
Matt
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Wilhelm Busch
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These cars were originally ment to be actually driven~~~not just used as show "Trailer Queens" or museum display pieces that get re-restored every few years in another color by another new deep pockets owner as a speculative Investment.
Keep your Duesenberg the way it is~~~"Patina" and all, end enjoy actually driving it~~~far too few owners of these great Duesenberg model "J" autos still do this today ! <!-- s;-) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s;-) -->
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Joel wrote:
(...)
My Model J was last restored in 1959, and now the many flaws have been re-classified as "patina", drawing much more positive feedback than negative. But still, when I show up with my ratty old Duesey at an event filled with minted out show cars, I leave feeling kind of like I should do something about it. But I won't.
Hello Joel,
you have my "Thumb up" for that statement!
Cheers
Matt
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Wilhelm Busch
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Mike Dube wrote: I'll weigh in again on the side of leaving nice cars alone. I saw J-108 in Ken McBrides's collection a few years ago. IMHO, restoring it was so unnecessary.
I agree with you about leaving nice cars alone. But it is hard. I see people nitpick every tiny flaw on Dueseys that were restored 15+ years ago and starting to show a little age. The standards are set very high, and some owners just can't stand the criticism if the car is not perfect. Or they feel that the car deserves better. Or they want to win a show.
My Model J was last restored in 1959, and now the many flaws have been re-classified as "patina", drawing much more positive feedback than negative. But still, when I show up with my ratty old Duesey at an event filled with minted out show cars, I leave feeling kind of like I should do something about it. But I won't.
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Bob Roller wrote: WHY did J108 bring a bigger price than J345?
Bob Roller
One off car, celebrity and movie history.
Agreed, plus J108 is a fresh restoration and J345 was restored over 30 years ago. Also it seems that the description of J345 played it safe on the supercharger description, leaving out the restorers claim that the supercharger cases are original Duesenberg parts. In my opinion, that hurt the value. Original superchargers add big$$, repops don't.
I finally figured out something about J108. Looking at the recent pictures of it, I thought the tires looked too small. There is so much space between the top of the tire and the underside of the rear fender. But now, after looking closer, it seems that the rear fenders are mounted higher on the body that other Murphy CC's, making the tires look smaller. Does anyone know why?
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Chris Summers wrote:
(...)
No word yet on Mecum.
Hello,
it looks like the Duesy@mecum was not sold too. www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detai ... 813-161577
Cheers
Matt
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Chris Summers wrote: J-345 was no-sale at $1.8 million high bid.
J-108 was sold at $2.365 million.
No word yet on Mecum.
Hello Chris,
thank you for the information.
I wonder a bit about the "low" :rolleyes: bit for J-345, auctions have allways their surprises
Cheers
Matt
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J-108 was sold at $2.365 million.
No word yet on Mecum.
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does anybody knows the auction-results of the Duesenberg-cars offered @ the Pebble Beach/Monterey auctions (Gooding, RM and Mecum)?
Thanks!
Matt
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It was a nice car. If that is a factory blower someone should reunite it with the limo a few posts back and swap in the reproduction. Of course I'm not sure of the overall financial wisdom of that plan since I'm not suggesting I should do it .
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Monterey
16 - 17 August 2013
I'll guess 3.1 mil.
www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1060491
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silverghost wrote: In spite of the fact that it is an original factory supercharged model "SJ"~~~
It still is an unrestored original car that has only had a quickie cosmetic partial body paint job with a very plain- unexciting closed four-door body style in my opinion.
From earlier period photos that still survive ~~~ That now polished aluminum beltline molding treatment it is now sporting was just not very long ago stripped & polished during it's quickie cosmetic paint job~~~Just for this auction I suspect ?
Older extant B&W photos in various older Duesenberg books show a painted beltline trim.
Also that trim over the windshield on the roof appears to have been added.
I just wonder how well it actually runs & drives mechanically ?
You will not see this car winning any concours show event soon~~~ without a total proper frame-off restoration & proper chassis painting & overall car detailng .
I see two painted exhaust pipe manifold connectors & two rusty units~~~
Also non original fuel line hoses & clamps.
and much much more wrong~~~ just on the auction link photos.
Also~~~
It is now no longer a totally original "survivor car" since it's new cosmetic quickie re-paint.
Don't get me wrong~~~
It's still a nice car~~~but in this present condition a $$$ 1.2 Million car ? ? ?
REALLY ? ? ?
Hello,
here is a link to an old b/w-photo of that car.
www.duesey2208.com/Datasheets/Mo ... rm2543.htm
Cheers
Matt
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It still is an unrestored original car that has only had a quickie cosmetic partial body paint job with a very plain- unexciting closed four-door body style in my opinion.
From earlier period photos that still survive ~~~ That now polished aluminum beltline molding treatment it is now sporting was just not very long ago stripped & polished during it's quickie cosmetic paint job~~~Just for this auction I suspect ?
Older extant B&W photos in various older Duesenberg books show a painted beltline trim.
Also that polished trim over the windshield on the roof appears to have been added.
I just wonder how well it actually runs & drives mechanically ?
You will not see this car winning any concours show event soon~~~ without a total proper frame-off restoration & proper chassis painting & overall car detailng .
I see two painted exhaust pipe manifold connectors & two rusty units~~~
Also non original fuel line hoses & clamps.
and much much more wrong~~~ just on the auction link photos.
Also~~~
It is now no longer a totally original "survivor car" since it's new cosmetic quickie re-paint.
Don't get me wrong~~~
It's still a nice car~~~but in this present condition a $$$ 1.2 Million car ? ? ?
REALLY ? ? ?
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Chris Summers wrote: High bid of $1.2 million reported for J-514.
Thank you, Chris
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Most of us, on the other hand are collectors. Collectors usually make decisions without considering the financial downside but based on our own concepts or more often impulses.
As a general rule, a collector jousting with a dealer over a car is not a fair fight. One is level headed and the other is running on emotion.
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I agree with you about having,and actually using a nice "Driver" type car~~~
My above comment means I just thought that Dragone's pre-auction selling estimate of $1.5--$2. Million might not be that realistic despite the extreme rarity of that original factory superchared SJ ?
I guess we shall see when we eventually hear the final auction hammer price~~~to see if I was correct ?
It's still a nice car~~~~But is it a $ 2 MILLION dollar car ?
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I have seen a number of cars that Manny & George have offered for sale in the past that just had quickie paint jobs applied over a car body that was never dis-assembled to paint it .
One similar example that comes to mind was a bright blue Springfield Rolls~Royce Brewster York Roadster that I went down to the "Classics" event in Atlantic City NJ.
Upon inspection & questions to George Dragone. I soon discovered that this car had received a similar quickie paint job without any body disassemblly . Even the fender welting was painted the very same blue !
The underside of the car was showing it's age as nothing had ever been done to it sice new .
When time came to have it cross the auction block they had to push it across as it refused to start-up.
All the other 25+ carsat this event drove past the auction block under their own power !
A similar quickie paint job on this "SJ" might help explain the ill-fitting hood ? ? ! !
Take a look at the chassis rail photo on their web-link above and you will see what I am speaking about.
What is YOUR opinion ?
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mikespeed35 wrote: What did J-514 sell for?
CORDially Mike
Hello,
does someone know the auction-price for that car?
The estimate (by Dragone) was $ 1.5-2.0 Million.
Cheers
Matt
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silverghost wrote: Joel~
That's the Model "J" Murphy I was thinking about~
Thank's for the two great photos of J-345 .
This car is indeed spectacular ; and on my all time top-10 lifetime Classic auto want list.
The very first Hershey auction I spoke about above in the Giant Center happened only weeks after the infamous September 11th New York Terrorist attack.
Sadly because of this tragic American event many autos that Don & Riche had assembled for this auction sold for super-low bargan basement prices.
Dad & I were like "kids in a candy store" at that auction with so many great full Classics.
We were also trying to buy the Rolls ~Royce Phantom II Henley roadster Don had there.
I remember building a plastic Monagram model of that very car as a young child. I still have that very same model.
The first Hershey auction was sadly a real blood-bath for Don & Richie.
I remember also my late father & I seeing, & speaking to, Randy Ema at the auction's preview about this super model "J" we were interested in bidding on.
There were two great model"J" s at this auction.
Thank's Guys~
Hello,
J-345 will be offered by RM auctions @Monterey in August!
www.rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1060491
Matt
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silverghost wrote:
Steve Derus wrote: The Duesenberg Murphy town car consigned to BJ appears to have a reserve.
If it car does indeed have a reserve ~~~That would be quite unusual for the B-J auction as for the last half dozen years, or so, ALL cars had to be consigned at B-J Scottsdale with NO reserve~~~or B-J would NOT accept the consignment.
With this No reserve policy B-J always wins as ALL cars sell. ~~~ While seller/consigners often loose their shirt on many of the B-J auction no reserve sales.
What REALLY happens is the seller ends up buying his own car just to keep it. Then he ends up paying BOTH sides of the commissions. Not widely known by the public.
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original SJ
one of a kind
surviror quality looks excellent
very interesting history. Mrs. Evans must have loved the car to ship it to Europe for use on her trips there.
I've always been an admirer of Dueseys with the polished body accent molding.
I'd guess the hood fit is a fairly simple repair either alignment or adjustment, but then I don't know how the SJ hoods operate.
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The Tourster was in fact directly sold to Howard Hughes himself who owned Hughes Aircraft Co., and several dozen other large corporations.
My great uncle William Hunter sold this car directly to Hughes as he was a close business associate of Howard. Howard may have titled it in the Aircraft Company name & used company funds to pay for it~~~who knows ?
After all he Owned Hughes Aircraft !
Of all the companies in Hughes empire the Aircraft company was his favorite.
It was said by old Hunter family lore that Hughes drove the car for some time himself before, & early, in the war period , then like every other auto he ever owned he quickly grew tired of it and had Hughes Aircraft Co. use it to tow experimental test airframes & so-called "Gliders" with it's aft coachwork chopped-off !
I often wonder if Hughes Aircraft had any photos of this auto in aircraft towing form with the aft body chopped-off ?
I would sure like to see one !
Over his lifetime Howard Hughes owned dozens of fine autos. He gave several Springfield Rolls~Royce Silver Ghosts, & Phantom I, autos to various girlfriends over the years.
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