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Duesenberg J-331 Murphy roadster

  • Bob Roller
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14 Dec 2010 12:51 #18775 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic J540
The 1935 purchase date would explain the small wheels.
(17 inch) as well as the skirted front fenders.
This was one of my favorite Duesenbergs and well do I remember being all over the state of WV that night in 1951 when high water blocked the roads almost every where.

Bob Roller

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14 Dec 2010 12:43 #18774 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Trying to figure them out
Of my old car they all make fun
because it was built back in `31
It has a rattle in the front
a groan in the rear.and a Chinese
puzzle for a steering gear.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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  • Chris Summers
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14 Dec 2010 05:14 #18772 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg J-331 Murphy roadster
Just for discussion's sake:

Weymann Sedan J-251 / 2259 was sold new on November 15, 1929.

Murphy Convertible Coupe J-331 / 2347 was sold new September 27, 1930.

Murphy Convertible Coupe J-357 / 2388 was sold new in 1930.

Judkins Berline J-540 / 2557 was sold new May 9, 1935. This was a renumbering of engine J-388 and MAYBE an unknown frame, with a body that may have come from a Lincoln.

LeBaron Phaeton J-487 / 2336 originally had another engine, which Ray Wolff thought was J-320. He did not record its original date or year of sale.

Any comments welcomed. How to properly identify these cars has always been a running issue.

Chris Summers
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So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.

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  • Bob Roller
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14 Dec 2010 00:01 #18770 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Scrambled engine numbers
David,
One "J"I am familiar with was J540.That is a fairly high number for a car that was supposedly new in 1931.
The first "J"I had any experience with was J487 which has all the hall marks of an early car.long wheel base,V radiator core with no winter front and a very light weight LeBaron dual cowl phaeton body.
It is thought or maybe even an established fact that the first 250 cars were sold between the announcement of the car to the public and 1931 and then slowed way down to a crawl after that. I think I read that only 5 new J's were sold in 1932 but I am not sure that is correct.

Bob Roller

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  • Chris Summers
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13 Dec 2010 23:20 #18766 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Duesenberg J-331 Murphy roadster
My policy as Historian is not to apply dates to cars, since they usually aren't accurate. The majority of Model Js, at least, were built in 1929; some were not sold for years and then titled as the year of sale; some chassis were rebuilt, renumbered, and reused later on; others changed dates as they were rebodied to suit the addition of the latest body. Therefore pinning an accurate "model year" to one is usually impossible.

My own personal preference is to identify cars by coachbuilder, body builder, and current J-number / chassis number:

Murphy Convertible Coupe J-331 / 2347

Engine or chassis changes are indicated with "ex":

Murphy Convertible Coupe J-401 / 2340 (ex-J-327)

Renumberings of J-numbers and chassis are indicated similarly:

(renumbered J-xxx)

Replica frames are referred to as replicas, because I call a rose a rose:

J-xxx / Replica

I'm not trying to play Strunk and White here; this is just how I prefer to do things. I don't think I've irreperably confused anyone yet...I think.

Chris Summers
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  • proscriptus
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13 Dec 2010 18:24 #18761 by proscriptus
Replied by proscriptus on topic Duesenberg J-331 Murphy roadster
That makes sense, Bob. My thinking was that these Murphys were very nearly regular production; after all, there were 60 of this body and as such, less likely to end up in funny sequence. As you say, however, anything could have happened.

David B Traver Adolphus

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  • Bob Roller
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13 Dec 2010 18:08 #18760 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Out of sequence numbers
I know that J357 was new in 1930 and was here in West Virginia for years. I don't think there is any logical sequence even though one was probably intended when the cars were new. Another car is J251 which was new in 1930. Duesenberg apparently bought a number of these MCC bodies and had them shipped to the factory and sold them off as ordered came in and that could be as late as 1935. The way these cars are scrambled up,unless the full documentation from new is actually KNOWN,it appears that anything is possible. They were all 1929's but were titled in the year sold.

Bob Roller

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  • proscriptus
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13 Dec 2010 15:50 #18757 by proscriptus
Duesenberg J-331 Murphy roadster was created by proscriptus
RM has J-331 for Amelia listed it as a 1930. That seems to me to be out of sequence with the other Murphy convertible coupes with adjoining numbers. Does anyone have an opinion on whether its a 1930 or '31?

Dave

www.rmauctions.com/FeatureCars.c ... =r121&fc=0

David B Traver Adolphus

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