Where are all the Model "A" Duesenbergs ??

I have never had any use for any kind of an auction and even less for someone that won't quote a price for whatever is being offered. I think they have ruined the old car hobby and this stuff about non payments to sellers should be dealt with harshly because it is plain and simple theft as is a "Buyers Fee". Shipping and "handling",WHAT is "handling"? I was told it would cost over $9.00+ some other "handling" fee to ship a small block of ebony to me from the mid West and I turned it down. This was a 4 ounce piece of material. My wife will buy only from business places that offer "free" shipping.We all know that little trick is built into the quoted prices but it "sounds good".

Bob Roller

I should add that I have attended non car auctions that the auction inventory is owned by the auction house and a buyers premium is charged. No different than high S&H charges on E-Bay to get the price up.
CORDially Mike

I attended a auction with a Duesenberg up for auction. I was standing next to a friend who is well connected in the old car hobby. He mentioned to me that the Duesenberg that was on the podium at that time had a knock in the motor. I asked him how he knew since the discription or anouncements on the podium never mentioned that fact. He smilled and said he just now. As soon as the car had been hammered sold the principle of the auction Co. came up to my friend and said "not a bad price for car that needs a motor". "Let the Buyer Beware"
CORDially Mike

For the record, all I stated was that I didn't know for certain who currently owned the car.

Justin & Chris~~~

For the official record~~~~~~
We do not really know for sure if the above Model "A" is owned now by any auction company now or not ? !
In fact we do not know WHO now owns this car !

This following story below is an~~~~
Unrelated True Auction Story !!! :

A number of years ago my father & I attended an auction of an estate of a noted Pa. car collector and friend of my dad.
There were 40 + cars in his museum collection to be auctioned that day.
There was the typical $100. bidder's paddle fee & also a 10% "Buyer's Premium" added to any eventual selling price.
It was stated in the auction advertising that a portion of the selling prices was to go the the late collector's favorite charity.
The auction was being run by an auction house from somewhere north of our USA border that I will not name.
I went to bid on a blue Auburn boat-tailed speedster that had been restored in the 1970s and was now a bit shabby and needed a fresh paint job.
The speedster came on the block and I bid up to my self set limit.~~ I then dropped-out.
Needless to say I went home without any purchase.
Days after this so-called "Estate Auction" I was contacted by a long time noted car collector,and friend, and he told me the shocking news that just days prior to the actual auction event day the auction company itself had purchased the entire car collection, 100% of it ,from the late collector's estate.
I later confirmed this fact from several other collectors.
This was in fact 100% true !
The fact that the auction company itself now owned all the cars was never announced at this auction at any time !
Not only was the auction company now selling their own cars ~~~
they were still charging potential buyers the stated 10% "Buyer's Premium" for the privilige of buying cars that the auction company now owned themselves outright !
To me, in my opinion, this was an un-ethical auction practice !
I, and the other collectors with whome I spoke to later were really steamed about this turn of events !
We also wondered if the stated charity ever saw any money from this so-called "Estate Auction" event ?
This entire turn of events has soured me on car auctions and this un-named auction company !

What are your thoughts ?
Should the auction company have disclosed the fact that THEY now owned all these cars outright and NOT the late collector's estate ?
Should they have still charged the 10% "Buyer's Premium" for the privilige of buying THEIR cars ?
You do not pay Sears, or any store a 10% "Buyers Premium to purchase thier goods ~~~Do You ?
That is one my objections with car auctions & this un-named auction house !

As for me~~~ I will not pay ANY "Buyers Premium" to an auction house that is selling cars that THEY in fact own themselves !
To me this is a great insult to the buyers !

Is there any real honor & honest dealings going on in car auction houses today ?
I have been involved in this Antique & Classic Car hobby for 55 years ! ~~~

At other auctions I have seen non-existant bids pulled out of thin air just to work-up the prices~~~

I have seen Shill bidding where the car owner or dealer/owner & his friends were working-up the bids on their own cars on the auction block~~ ~ There has been a lawsuit filed for this very issue on a Duesenberg that was sold at auction~
No doubt you have heard about it; and the persons involved ~~~

Outright fabrications in Auction catalogs & car descriptions seems to be the norm~~~

And let's not forget all those consigners still yet to be paid from a very well known long-time car auction company event from several years ago~~~
We ACD forum members here know all about this nonpayent situation too well~~
And the Auction Company owner/founder has still not been charged or prosecuted !
They only just pulled his licence ~~~

The list goes on and on~~~

I am just tired of all this auction dis-honesty !

Sorry for my Auction venting tirade !

The car being sold at auction belonged to Jimmy Greenway, a new car dealer in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Greenway sold it in the early 1980s, I believe, to Jerry J. Moore. It passed from Moore to Sterling McCall's to O'Quinn's. I am not sure if it is being sold directly from O'Quinn's; I heard RM purchased it but that may just have been rumor.

I have seen the bodymaker referred to as Fleetwood and Springfield. It appears to be a standard Model A phaeton with a second cowl added. I do not believe that it is included in Fred Roe's 1996 list of surviving As.

As with most O'Quinn cars I don't think it moved much in the time they owned it, so, in auction catalog parlance, I would encourage careful mechanical inspection prior to and following purchase.

Brad,

Shawn often doesn't post prices for his higher dollar cars but if you contact him I'm sure you'll get whatever information he has.

I also pointed this out to you in another thread you started but am unsure if you saw it. This Model A is coming up for auction next month:
www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r195

Justin

As with many Model As I do not have a complete history on this car, even though I'm told all of its owners are known since new. It was owned for many years by Club member Victor Benischek, who restored it, and was widely driven. It is also the Model A pictured in silhouette on the cover of Fred Roe's book.

This is the second body on the chassis and was built and installed in the mid-1920s by McNear, actually a Boston-area car dealership that dabbled in coachbuilding. McNear eventually became Foreign Motors, where Jay Leno worked for a while in his salad days. In Duesenbergs everything tends to come full-circle.

Incidentally this is car D63C, engine 1479. Anyone with more information, please contribute.

My favorite Model A is the one-off Fleetwood Doctor's Coupe which Shawn Miller used to own and brought to Auburn a few times. I understand it is now in a large collection in Michigan. For some reason I prefer closed Model As to the open ones.

Justin :
Thank's for the heads-up tip on the Victoria Coupe' ...
This Model "A" Duesey is quite attractive indeed~~~

See Folks~~~
Not all Model Duesenberg "A"s are ugly ducklings as some have stated !
You are just spoiled by all those flashey Model "J" s !
If it runs & drives as good as it looks this one might be a real winner !

The overly wide whitewalls are a bit over the top~~~~

BUT~~~
I really like this Victoria/Opera coupe'
I will call for more details ~~~

Does anyone here know this Model "A" or any of it's past history ?

It's a shame there are no underhood engine photos ?

For some reason they have no posted asking prices at all on their website ?
I will check this one out in more detail for sure !

Thank's Again !

Brad,
Very interesting observation regarding the Model A. Just as an FYI- Concours of the Americas (formerly Meadow Brook) is featuring a display of Model A Duesenbergs vs. Model J. Interestingly enough, Brian Joseph, of Classic and Exotic, is serving as Car Selection Chairman for the Concours. I know I am very excited to see what Model A's he is able to recruit for this exhibit. I have only ever seen a handful of examples - Peter Heydon's, Al Ferrara's, Indianapolis 500 Museum, touring car in Auburn. I would think that Brian would be able to get a nice variety on the field.

Here you go Brad - another available:
significantcars.com/cars/1926duesenberg/

Justin

I can't remember the exact number built off the top of my head but there are around 50 known survivors, most of which are happily in Club members' hands.

Bob Roller wrote: I think Roe's book,Pursuit of Perfection has said that many of these early cars were the basis for dirt track race cars and were simply run into the ground and then scrapped.World War 2 scrap drives didn't do them any good either. We never had one in the shop when we were doing work on the "J"s and I never saw one up close until I saw one at Auburn.The survival rate couldn't have been very great based on the percentages of whatever was built.
How many "A"s were made?I don't recall ever seeing any figures on them. E.L.Cord apparently took a dim view of them along with the Model "X"that was being made when he took over the Duesenberg operation.

Bob Roller

Somebody can provide the exact number but I believe it was around 550 or so.

I think Roe's book,Pursuit of Perfection has said that many of these early cars were the basis for dirt track race cars and were simply run into the ground and then scrapped.World War 2 scrap drives didn't do them any good either. We never had one in the shop when we were doing work on the "J"s and I never saw one up close until I saw one at Auburn.The survival rate couldn't have been very great based on the percentages of whatever was built.
How many "A"s were made?I don't recall ever seeing any figures on them. E.L.Cord apparently took a dim view of them along with the Model "X"that was being made when he took over the Duesenberg operation.

Bob Roller

Hi Folks~

Where are all the great Model "A" Duesenbergs ?

I joined this great ACD forum not long ago and had expected to see more model "A" Dueseys ~
In -fact I am looking to buy one some day~

There are quite a few surviving Model "A" s

Technically they are great cars~
I also like the 1920s body styles~
Sure not as impressive coachwork as on the Model "J"s
But~~ great cars that were mehanically way ahead of most others in their day~

Sadly very few are pictured here~
Also very few ACD Forum posts about them here !

Is there just very little interest among ACD Club & Forum members in the Model "A" ?

Do many ACD Club or Forum members own a Model "A" ?
Do they appear regularly at ACD events ?

There are many posts & photos on the Cord L-29 , & early Auburns ~~~

But not the Model "A".

I never expected to see much here on the Model "X" as they are very very rare ~~~

Just hoped there would be more ACD Club & Forum interest in the great Model "A" !


I always expected to see spectacular model "J" s ~