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Twin carbed Duesnebergs
- Chris Summers
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The car was hammered in 2003 at $429,000; in 2007 at $660,000; and now in 2011 at $506,000. It reportedly sold in 2010 as well for $390,000 but notice confliction with RM's history of the car. Who's telling the truth?
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- West Peterson
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The printed catalog stated that it was fitted with "a Stromberg UUR" carburetor, so I assumed that since they were describing a single carburetor and using no photo from that side (printed version), that meant just one carburetor.
So... is that a reproduction twin-carbureted supercharger? Seems like a pretty-pricy and rare unit to be sitting atop a "bitsa" Duesenberg, eh?
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- landmark
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West Peterson wrote: The auction catalog doesn't show the carburetor side.
Hello,
on catalog-picture No.3 you can see the Supercharger with the two carbs
www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... &Currency=
B.t.w. I had the thought when I first saw the price of that replica. But in addition when s.o. "butcher" the "car" he has an original J-engine plus Supercharger and a many good spareparts like clutch, gearbox, stearing, the complete hydraulic brake system and axles, wheels instruments a.s.o... <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->
Was man besonders gerne tut,
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Wilhelm Busch
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www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r149
www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r101
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I compared the photo from online (p. 1) with the 2011 catalog photo and the 2007 Ponder Collection catalog photo. The engine appears identical in all three.
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The auction catalog leads one to believe that the twin carbureted supercharger pictured way back on page one of this thread is now a single carbureted supercharger????
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- landmark
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Chris Summers wrote: Hi Matt,
Per my files the car has the original engine J-134 with a renumbered bellhousing and a partially reproduction frame built in the early 1970s. I have seen letters documenting that at least part of the frame was reproduction at that point and that what original pieces were used came from 2286. I do not believe that any part of original frame 2159 (the original of J-134) survived.
The body is not the original Walton Speedster, which survives elsewhere, but was built during the restoration.
I will happily eat my words if any contrary evidence can be presented, but at the moment I believe the car to have a replica frame until someone with further knowledge can tell me otherwise.
Hi,
the car (J-134) is sold @RM auction in St. John's to the price of $ 506000
The other Duesenberg (J-288, Murphy Convertible Berline) at that auction had a hammerprice about $ 704000
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
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Wilhelm Busch
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- Chris Summers
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It is a past Best Duesenberg winner at Auburn...in 1958.
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It does greatly resemble the Buehrig drawing and may have been inspired by it, certainly was restored in the inspiration of it.
Last I heard the car was supposedly in VA.
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Chris Summers wrote: .
...The speedster in question is J-364 and has a body of later construction; the frame is AN original but its identity is a matter of question. In the past the body has been presented as from the period but I doubt it and I do not believe it to have been a Murphy as has also been claimed. As I recall this car has a dual-carb blower but a reproduction. Again, any comments are welcomed.
I think that speedster body was inspired (whenever it was built) by a sketch of Gordon Buehrig, which you can find at the J.L. Elbert book on page 35 (picture 4).
The sketches on that page are titled: Above design sketches, 1929-31 of Duesies never built
Taken from the album of Gordon Buehrig, Chief Designer, Duesenberg, Inc., 1929-33
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
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Wilhelm Busch
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The Tourster in question has always been faithfully presented to my knowledge and is with an owner that I imagine knows what it is.
The speedster in question is J-364 and has a body of later construction; the frame is AN original but its identity is a matter of question. In the past the body has been presented as from the period but I doubt it and I do not believe it to have been a Murphy as has also been claimed. As I recall this car has a dual-carb blower but a reproduction. Again, any comments are welcomed.
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Matt,you're welcome about the warm greeting and by the way,Dein Englisch,Ausgezeichnet mein Freund.
A Duesenberg with no history or Zeitgeschichte before 1970 has to be a composite or an out and out fraud.
Has it been represented as an original car and sold as such? If so,who and when?? I think something like that would be a "fun car" if one had a big budget for fun but with no history earlier that the year my first son was born is absurd. I saw some sort of a boat taile speedster at Auburn in 2003 and have pictures of it. It was yellow and black and I have heard different tales about how it came into being, Any ideas??
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I don't have a problem with any of these cars being referred to as Duesenbergs as long as their history is accurately presented.
Buyer beware. It helps to remember that a Duesenberg - or any old car - is, when you break away the history, still a used car, and should be examined with the same scrutiny you give any used car. Asking to see ACD Club Certification and talking to knowledgable people (of which this Club has many) are a good start.
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Chris Summers wrote: Hi Matt,
Per my files the car has the original engine J-134 with a renumbered bellhousing and a partially reproduction frame built in the early 1970s. I have seen letters documenting that at least part of the frame was reproduction at that point and that what original pieces were used came from 2286. I do not believe that any part of original frame 2159 (the original of J-134) survived.
The body is not the original Walton Speedster, which survives elsewhere, but was built during the restoration.
I will happily eat my words if any contrary evidence can be presented, but at the moment I believe the car to have a replica frame until someone with further knowledge can tell me otherwise.
Hi everybody,
first of all
@Chris: all the best to your father.
@Bob Roller: Thanks for the warm welcome.
The catalog for the RM auction in St. John's is now online. The history description of the J-134 has a lot of if, could be and maybe. My english is not perfect, so what I understand of the description is that it is a J-engine mounted on a reproduction frame of onknown production with the original 2159 car firewall.
Body and Supercharger would be made and mounted in the 70ies.
So in my opinion this is a nice looking replica with some original parts mounted. Or I am wrong with my opinion?
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut
Wilhelm Busch
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Wishing your Dad a recovery that is faster than a Duesenberg.
Steve
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Sorry to hear this, but it sounds as if he's doing as well as can be expected. My best wishes to your father.
And a big 10-4 that we should all take better care of ourselves.
Mike
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fyreline wrote: Nothing but best wishes for you and your dad, Chris . . . hoping for a speedy and complete recovery for him.
Thanks for all you do for us here. It's therapy for us all.
+1
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Thanks for all you do for us here. It's therapy for us all.
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That said, Duesenbergs help me deal with anxiety, so you'll be seeing me on here off and on still when I'm not at the hospital or taking up his slack for the local newspaper.
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Viele Grusse aus Amerika senden Dir und jetz dem fragen Zwei vergassers mt Kompressor.
Now a bit of news.Chris Summers father had a coronary event that put him in the ICU and 4 bypasses later he SEEMS to be getting along OK according to Chris.
In the 1950's,it was said that 6 dual caburetor superchargers were built in the day when these cars were available as a new vehicle.That left 31 with single carburetor blowers. I saw SJ572 in 1952 and it had the dual carburetors on it then and it was installed in a car that originally carried J240. The dual carburetor arrangement on the Duesenberg Special was an obvious conversion of a single carb unit by using a pipe altered to accept the second carburetor.
Harry VanIderstine told me about the problem of power loss with J572 and after thinking it over for a while,it was my opinion that the two carburetors were pushing too much fuel and strangling or flooding the engine because both discharge pipes were blowing into the place once occupied by a single down draft carburetor. The "Special" had twin manifolds which was a much better intake arrangement,
The Gary Cooper SSJ was an SJ from new.I don't know about the so called "Clark Gable"SSJ. The Brunn bodied SJ528 was also supercharged as a new car. I recall Harry Schulzinger saying he had a blower but decided to go with the rebore/high compression pistons instead. It worked quite well.
Personally,I am against adding superchargers,side pipes and manifolds to any car that did not have them in 1937.
Bob Roller
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Chris Summers wrote: Hi Matt,
Per my files the car has the original engine J-134 with a renumbered bellhousing and a reproduction frame built in the early 1970s. I have seen letters documenting that at least the side members of the frame were reproduction at that point, probably all of it as I have never seen any evidence that original frame 2159 survives.
The body is not the original Walton Speedster, which survives elsewhere, but was built during the restoration.
I will happily eat my words if any contrary evidence can be presented, but at the moment I believe the car to have a replica frame until someone with further knowledge can tell me otherwise.
Hello Chris,
thank you for the information.
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut
Wilhelm Busch
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Per my files the car has the original engine J-134 with a renumbered bellhousing and a partially reproduction frame built in the early 1970s. I have seen letters documenting that at least part of the frame was reproduction at that point and that what original pieces were used came from 2286. I do not believe that any part of original frame 2159 (the original of J-134) survived.
The body is not the original Walton Speedster, which survives elsewhere, but was built during the restoration.
I will happily eat my words if any contrary evidence can be presented, but at the moment I believe the car to have a replica frame until someone with further knowledge can tell me otherwise.
Chris Summers
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Chris Summers wrote: The second car is J-134 / replica frame, with a Bob Gassaway-built boattail body, formerly owned by Richard and Linda Kughn.
Hello everybody,
I am new at this forum, so allow me to introduce myself.
My name is Matt, I am german, so please excuse that my english is not perfect.
I live round about 40 mls north of Kirchheide, the birthplace of the Duesenberg-brothers.
I am interested in Duesenberg cars for more than 20 years. I am fascinated by the avant-garde engineering and the wonderful body designs.
My question is; can anyone tell more about the history of the J-134?
It is a very good looking car, but is it a proper historical Duesenberg?
According to J.L. Elbert it was originally delivered as a LeBaron convertible sedan with the frame number 2159. At what time the Gassaway Speedster Body was mounted?
Chris Summers wrote that today a replica frame is mounted. What happened to the original frame? Was the original frame damaged (by accident) and had to be replaced?
The car is now offered by RM Auctions at the St. John's auction. Today there is no (history) discription of the car available at the RM-website, but it is offered with the frame number 2159.
Matt
Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut
Wilhelm Busch
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The Meteor came out pretty good. That wasn't the easiest place lighting-wise to take a picture.
Mike
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StelvioGT @ yahoo.com
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West - you can start the list right now if one doesn't exist.
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So one SSJ, the Mormon Meteor, and the spare Meteor engine, now probably J-292, definitely had them when new. I believe J-572 had them from new, or at least from its early days, as well. Randy would be able to give you a more definite answer on this than I.
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alsancle wrote: I'm just guessing, but I think there were a total of 5 with duals? The two SSJs, the MM, and two spare engines from the MM.
Engine J-572 had dual carbs installed in the 1960s, which would have been before Leo's project as well. That engine came out of the Bohman & Schwartz Convertible Coupe built in 1935 for Serge Mdivani, now owned by Sam & Emily Mann.
Were there two spare engines for the Mormon Meteor?
I've heard it had one, which was probably put into J-292, as A.J. said. There is another, so-called "spare engine" in the ACD Museum. It is very probably not.
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Nice new toy, West. A substitute for the blue Packard that didn't arrive on Christmas morning?
Chris Summers
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