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Twin carbed Duesnebergs

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26 Nov 2023 02:03 - 06 Dec 2023 18:59 #48020 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Twin carbed Duesenbergs
Hi, does anyone know anything about this Eddie Edmunds twin carb intake? I bought it off of ebay in about 2015.
Any info is appreciated. Thanks, Joel




Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
[img
Last edit: 06 Dec 2023 18:59 by Joel.

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  • landmark
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29 Oct 2011 09:03 #21282 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

alsancle wrote: A Pitcairn autogyro. I understand A.K. Miller's was up in one of the barn lofts.
...


Hello,

the Pitcairn Autogyro was as well at a very popular movie from 1934.

Frank Capra's "It happened one night" starring Clark Gable and Claudette Colbert.
You can see the Autogyro landing @ 4.20 min
... re=related


The Autogyro needs a very short runway to start:


In Hildesheim, some 50mls away of my hometown in Germany, the AutoGyro Company produce some modern types of Autogyro aircrafts.

www.auto-gyro.com/en/Calidus/

... re=related





Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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29 Oct 2011 00:10 #21280 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
A Pitcairn autogyro. I understand A.K. Miller's was up in one of the barn lofts.

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  • Bob Roller
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28 Oct 2011 21:26 #21276 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Actual horsepower output of the "j"
It apparently varied quite a bit, J 110 as I recall was substandard from the beginning and was never installed in a chassis. I think the best reading was about 208HP at 3600RPM. Another writer said that number 8 cylinder's coolant area was blocked by a defectively cast motor block and put a big drag on the other 7 cylinders from an overheated cylinder
Higher compression pistons worked as time went on and mechanics and experimenters worked on the engines and my own exerience with J528 bears this out. The only way to get more energy from gasoline is to compress the
air/gas mixture and when the low octane fuels available in 1929 are factored into a stock engine,if the actual output was anywhere near the claimed 265HP then it proved the soundness of the engineering that brought it about.. I think it was an article in a long ago Automoble Quarterly that said "as delivered to the original buyer,the engine probably did actually deliver about 245HP but might possibly be tuned at higher cost to the claimed 265HP advertised.
The Duesenberg Special was said to have different cams but just how different I certainly don't know but at a guess,I'd say they had longer duration per cycle.If you look at the original cams,they have little dwell time but the engines usually will idle smoothly and in the days of the new "J",smooth idle was always expected from any luxury car. Down draft carburetors helped a lot too.
To Silverghost:
Thanks for the infor on Mr.Pitcairn. The old mechanic,Lou Musgrove spoke highly of him but not of the autogyro or any helicopter (Dammit,wings don't rotate,propellors rotate") It's men like Pitcairn,the uncommon ones that are being discouraged today by a political twit and I will leave it at that.
Thanks again.

Bob Roller

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28 Oct 2011 11:11 #21275 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Hello,

does someone know the real(istic) HP output of the different "serial" J engine configurations?
I mean for the uncharged (downdraft-/updraft Carb) engine, the charged engine fitted with a single carb and the charged engines fitted with two carbs.

As I read in an article at "Road & Track" (Misc. Ramblings - Duesenberg Model J from May 1953) the real Power output (J-110) was about 208 BHP at 3600 RPM.
In the same article was written that the SJ (single-Carb) engines reach (realistic) 265 BHP.

In some articles at german books it was mentioned that the engines of the two "SSJ" Roadster where "tuned" the same way (compression?, valve-timing?) as the Mormon Meteor with an estimated power output of ca. 400 HP.

I am sure that the uncharged "Specials" with four single (Sidedraft) Carbs mounted and higher Compression (8:1 ?) Pistons would reach easily 265 HP and more.

Had the Duesenberg company used the same camshaft-configuration (valve timing) in every J engines or had they made (timing) changes during the production-time of the J engines?

The valve timing data (for engine J-110) published in article at "Road & Track" differ to the data published at the "Duesenberg owners companion".


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06 Oct 2011 17:42 #21157 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Bob & Guys~
The WA. state owner of Harold Pitcairn's old model "J" Muphy clearvision sedan insisted that this auto had two Winfield carbs installed on a dual carb manifold.
He sent the Pitcairn museum a half dozen photos of this model "J" .
Sadly he sent no photos of the engine's carb & intake side.
I sent Chris these email photos.
Perhapps Harold , or some later owner, made this later upgrade.

Dad knew Jim Hoe fairly well & I have several vivid memories of visiting his Westin CT "Sports Car Garage"
The Duenberg model "J" were his "sports cars" of choice for races & hill-climbs .
Jim Hoe was a great guy.
He made a big impression on me .
He was very nice & kind to a little kid like me .
He explained everything about the great model "J" cars he so loved.
He did not talk down to me~
I was only 5 or 6 at this time.

Bob~
Harold Pitcairn was quite a fellow indeed.
He started Pittsburg Plate Glass~
Pittsburg paints~
He sarted the first early US airmail routes.
Built the Pitcairn mailwing biplane ,&
Pitcairn autogyro used for the first US air mail routes.
[A.K. Miller the infamous Sutz hoarder once flew the mailwing & later the autogyro for Mr. Pitcairn as a very young airmail pilot. In fact~~~ A. K. Miller used to land the autogyro on the ROOF of the large 30th street Main Philadelphia Post Office.]
Pitcairn's own personal autogyro the blue "Miss Champion Sparkplug" could often be seen flying in our area & landing on his two mansion's front lawns.
It still exists today in the Pitcairn aviation museum.
Harold also started Eastern Airlines~
Built an airfield that is now the Willow Grove Naval Air Station & reserve airbase.
Harold also built the Bryn Athen Cathedral which is the second largest gothic cathedral in the USA.
It was built using all gothic era building tecniques with imported european stone masons ,& used original gothic formula stained glass windows built in a custom glass shop on his mansion estate grounds.
Harlod Pitcairn , and his father John, had their hand in early trolly & train transportation systems, coal mines, and much much more.
They had many great high-end /high powered autos in their lifetimes.
Many still exist today.
His Model Duesenberg "J" Murphy clearvision is alive & well today also.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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06 Oct 2011 13:31 #21150 by landmark

silverghost wrote:
(...)

This model "J"s then current owner in WA offering it for sale advertised it as having twin carbs.
This was not a supercarged car ; but a normally asperated auto.

Was this twin carb set-up on this model "J" a much later modification ?
Or~
Did it come equipped from the factory with those twin carbs ?
I believe it had Winfield carbs ?


Hello,

maybe that owner meant with "having twin carbs" the regular monted Schebler updraft (Two Throat) carb. In a way it is a twin carb, -two seperate carbs in one body with a shared fuel-chamber.

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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05 Oct 2011 09:41 #21142 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic 2 carbuertors on the "J"
My files show no multi carb set up other than a very few SJ's. After market systems were made up with two or more carburetors like Jim Hoe's old hot rod with 4 and likewise another really good looking street rod called "Geronimo.
Multiple carburetion was used on the smaller Duesenberg racing engines but not as a stock item on the "J".
I worked with a man in the mid 50's that knew Mr.Pitcairn and had high regard for him. The man was Lou Musgrove,an old time flyer and mechanic with multi engine ratings on land and sea planes,was a friend to Doug "Wrong Way"Corrigan and showed some Army pilots that a fully loaded bomber could be "bootstrapped"off the deck of a carrier but only one chance per plane and NO go around to try again.
These were Doolittle's pilots that later showed the Japanese that bigger and "better"air raids were on the way in the not too distant future.
Bob Roller

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04 Oct 2011 22:24 #21133 by RandyEma
Replied by RandyEma on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
A J . you are right on the money .Randy

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04 Oct 2011 21:30 #21132 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
To my knowledge no Model J was factory equipped with multiple carbs except for a very few SJs. A friend is in possession of a very large winfield carb that was intended for the Model J, but given it's size I would say it's a bolt on replacement for the factory downdraft on the later cars and not intended to be used as a dual.

There was some neat 4 carb setups put on various J's in the 40s and 50s too.

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04 Oct 2011 18:55 #21131 by silverghost
Replied by silverghost on topic Pitcairn model "J" Dual Carb Set-up
Back to Twin Carb model "J" autos.

A few years back the Harold Pitcairn Murphy Clearvision model "J" came up for sale.
The car's original home was a mansion compound, now a museum. a few blocks from my Pa. home here.
The Bryn Athen Pa Harold Pitcairn museum tried to acquire this auto to put it on display in this museum.
I tipped them off to it being on the market.

Mr Pitcairn started Pittsburg Plate Glass, Pittsburg Paints, Eastern Airlines, and a host of other ventures.
He also was involved in early airmail routes & built the Pitcairn mailwing biplane and the Pitcairn autogyro.

This model "J"s then current owner in WA offering it for sale advertised it as having twin carbs.
This was not a supercarged car ; but a normally asperated auto.

Was this twin carb set-up on this model "J" a much later modification ?
Or~
Did it come equipped from the factory with those twin carbs ?
I believe it had Winfield carbs ?

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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22 Sep 2011 21:13 #21030 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
The numbers sound right. Incidentally, Brian has sold a few superchargers "loose" for installation by the owner's shop of choice.

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22 Sep 2011 19:58 #21029 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Bob, I want to say 25 from the first run and less than a dozen so far from the second run. Additionally there are a couple that got original blowers (or pieces) that were never mounted on cars

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22 Sep 2011 18:54 #21028 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Dual carb superchargers
How many new ones have been made and installed since WW2?

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09 Aug 2011 17:38 #20696 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

Chris Summers wrote:

...The speedster in question is J-364 and has a body of later construction; the frame is AN original but its identity is a matter of question. In the past the body has been presented as from the period but I doubt it and I do not believe it to have been a Murphy as has also been claimed. As I recall this car has a dual-carb blower but a reproduction. Again, any comments are welcomed.


Hello,

J-364 will be offered at Auctions America (RM) auction in Auburn.

www.auctionsamerica.com/events/f ... 11&ID=r101

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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02 Aug 2011 11:54 #20643 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Over priced parts,new and old
Why anyone would put a supercharger on a car that never had one and will seldom if ever be driven is beyond me. The added pipes/manifold destroy the originality of the car and there are too many like that now.
I know of at least one low mileage motor block that sold for about $80,000 not too far from here and Ted McPhail told me he paid $20,000US for a transmission. He also traded a 1928 Auburn boat tail "speedster" for a "J"engine. Good deal or bad,I don't know.

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02 Aug 2011 11:36 #20641 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Real Duesenberg Superchargers are unobtainable but the 200 to 300 price is not unbelievable. The car in question has a first generation Gephart reproduction blower. I believe that Leo/Brian Joseph want 70 to 80k for the new reproductions but that may cover installation. They will not sell you one that Brian does not do the install.

Model J engines go from 65k to 100k depending on condition and completeness. Last transmission I know of sold for 25k.

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01 Aug 2011 20:43 #20634 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Given that a real supercharger unit (single carb) sold for $266,000 back in 1998, I was just thinking that if this twin-carbed version was real, that would certainly justify the price. Interesting to note that J-134 brought $660,000 at the 2007 sale, and $506,000 four years later. I'm thinking that sometime in the next 30 years I just might be able to afford a twin-carbed SJ Duesenberg.

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01 Aug 2011 20:35 #20633 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
I am 99% certain the supercharger on the car is not an original. This is based on my own notes and what I've seen of other records on the car, including Fred Roe's written opinion. The cars that have original blowers tend to be well-documented as such, particularly in the case of twin-carb cars.

The car was hammered in 2003 at $429,000; in 2007 at $660,000; and now in 2011 at $506,000. It reportedly sold in 2010 as well for $390,000 but notice confliction with RM's history of the car. Who's telling the truth?

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01 Aug 2011 20:29 #20632 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Thanks, Chris.
The printed catalog stated that it was fitted with "a Stromberg UUR" carburetor, so I assumed that since they were describing a single carburetor and using no photo from that side (printed version), that meant just one carburetor.
So... is that a reproduction twin-carbureted supercharger? Seems like a pretty-pricy and rare unit to be sitting atop a "bitsa" Duesenberg, eh?

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01 Aug 2011 20:24 #20631 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

West Peterson wrote: The auction catalog doesn't show the carburetor side.


Hello,

on catalog-picture No.3 you can see the Supercharger with the two carbs

www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... &Currency=

B.t.w. I had the thought when I first saw the price of that replica. But in addition when s.o. "butcher" the "car" he has an original J-engine plus Supercharger and a many good spareparts like clutch, gearbox, stearing, the complete hydraulic brake system and axles, wheels instruments a.s.o... <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) -->

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01 Aug 2011 20:16 #20630 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
The online catalog entries for both auctions (2007 and 2011) show both sides of the engine but many of the photos appear recycled. I don't have the Carail catalog and wasn't at St. John's to see in the car in person.

www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r149

www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cf ... CarID=r101

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01 Aug 2011 20:09 #20629 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
The auction catalog doesn't show the carburetor side.

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01 Aug 2011 20:08 #20628 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
I am fairly certain that it is a reproduction supercharger. For the record, engine J-134 was not supercharged originally.

I compared the photo from online (p. 1) with the 2011 catalog photo and the 2007 Ponder Collection catalog photo. The engine appears identical in all three.

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01 Aug 2011 19:53 #20627 by West Peterson
Replied by West Peterson on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Regarding #134: Is that the value of a supercharged engine these days? Is that a reproduction Supercharger???

The auction catalog leads one to believe that the twin carbureted supercharger pictured way back on page one of this thread is now a single carbureted supercharger????

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01 Aug 2011 19:48 #20626 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

Chris Summers wrote: Hi Matt,

Per my files the car has the original engine J-134 with a renumbered bellhousing and a partially reproduction frame built in the early 1970s. I have seen letters documenting that at least part of the frame was reproduction at that point and that what original pieces were used came from 2286. I do not believe that any part of original frame 2159 (the original of J-134) survived.

The body is not the original Walton Speedster, which survives elsewhere, but was built during the restoration.

I will happily eat my words if any contrary evidence can be presented, but at the moment I believe the car to have a replica frame until someone with further knowledge can tell me otherwise.


Hi,

the car (J-134) is sold @RM auction in St. John's to the price of $ 506000

The other Duesenberg (J-288, Murphy Convertible Berline) at that auction had a hammerprice about $ 704000

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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04 Jul 2011 04:27 #20406 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
No skeletons in the closet recorded in its history other than having been bought and sold many times in recent years (prior to its present ownership). That said I've never examined it in person.

It is a past Best Duesenberg winner at Auburn...in 1958.

Chris Summers
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04 Jul 2011 00:05 #20405 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
On the subject of Meadow Brook / St Johns, the pictures of J288 were taken in my front yard and I can vouch for it being a really nice driving older restoration. Perhaps Chris can chime in with the history but it feels like a really unmolested car.

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03 Jul 2011 21:42 #20404 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Speedster J364 or whatever.
I liked the thing in spite of the questionable ancestry.The only changes I would make would be to install cycle style front fenders and mount the speed light on a plate or maybe have two of those lights,one on each side so the passenger could aggravate oncoming cars.

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02 Jul 2011 23:52 #20403 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
I believe that the body is the speedster built c. early 1940s for J-153 / 2170 in California; the construction was reportedly very crude but, as Duesenberg enthusiasts have pointed out on this forum, that body had nearly identical lines to the one in question. J-153 / 2170 was later acquired with that body by an enthusiast/restorer who sold the chassis without the body later...meaning that the body stayed with him. That same enthusiast/restorer went on to build the J-364 speedster - using, I believe, that body.

It does greatly resemble the Buehrig drawing and may have been inspired by it, certainly was restored in the inspiration of it.

Last I heard the car was supposedly in VA.

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02 Jul 2011 21:58 #20402 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

Chris Summers wrote: .

...The speedster in question is J-364 and has a body of later construction; the frame is AN original but its identity is a matter of question. In the past the body has been presented as from the period but I doubt it and I do not believe it to have been a Murphy as has also been claimed. As I recall this car has a dual-carb blower but a reproduction. Again, any comments are welcomed.


I think that speedster body was inspired (whenever it was built) by a sketch of Gordon Buehrig, which you can find at the J.L. Elbert book on page 35 (picture 4).
The sketches on that page are titled: Above design sketches, 1929-31 of Duesies never built
Taken from the album of Gordon Buehrig, Chief Designer, Duesenberg, Inc., 1929-33

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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02 Jul 2011 20:21 #20401 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Dad is doing wonderfully...easing him off medications and getting him some exercise walking him up and down the hallways. Mom and I are learning all the steps to take care of him while he recuperates. He is mentally about 97% back to normal, some memory loss and confusion from anesthesia and the meds but nothing that can't be dealt with and that won't go away in time. We are very, very happy with the care he's received and with how he is feeling.

The Tourster in question has always been faithfully presented to my knowledge and is with an owner that I imagine knows what it is.

The speedster in question is J-364 and has a body of later construction; the frame is AN original but its identity is a matter of question. In the past the body has been presented as from the period but I doubt it and I do not believe it to have been a Murphy as has also been claimed. As I recall this car has a dual-carb blower but a reproduction. Again, any comments are welcomed.

Chris Summers
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02 Jul 2011 18:04 #20400 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic No history before 1970?
Chris,an update on your Dad would be good.
Matt,you're welcome about the warm greeting and by the way,Dein Englisch,Ausgezeichnet mein Freund.
A Duesenberg with no history or Zeitgeschichte before 1970 has to be a composite or an out and out fraud.
Has it been represented as an original car and sold as such? If so,who and when?? I think something like that would be a "fun car" if one had a big budget for fun but with no history earlier that the year my first son was born is absurd. I saw some sort of a boat taile speedster at Auburn in 2003 and have pictures of it. It was yellow and black and I have heard different tales about how it came into being, Any ideas??

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02 Jul 2011 17:46 #20399 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
The issue of "what makes a Duesenberg" is an interesting and complicated one. Most cars that were built up like the speedster in question used more or less intact original engines with new frames and bodies; there were some more original cars that actually used original frames, too, and then there are some less original cars that use parts from everywhere. There is at least one rebodied Tourster where I honestly cannot verify the precise origin of a single part on it. It is a nice, well-built, attractive car...with no history before 1970.

I don't have a problem with any of these cars being referred to as Duesenbergs as long as their history is accurately presented.

Buyer beware. It helps to remember that a Duesenberg - or any old car - is, when you break away the history, still a used car, and should be examined with the same scrutiny you give any used car. Asking to see ACD Club Certification and talking to knowledgable people (of which this Club has many) are a good start.

Chris Summers
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  • landmark
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02 Jul 2011 17:38 #20398 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

Chris Summers wrote: Hi Matt,

Per my files the car has the original engine J-134 with a renumbered bellhousing and a partially reproduction frame built in the early 1970s. I have seen letters documenting that at least part of the frame was reproduction at that point and that what original pieces were used came from 2286. I do not believe that any part of original frame 2159 (the original of J-134) survived.

The body is not the original Walton Speedster, which survives elsewhere, but was built during the restoration.

I will happily eat my words if any contrary evidence can be presented, but at the moment I believe the car to have a replica frame until someone with further knowledge can tell me otherwise.


Hi everybody,

first of all

@Chris: all the best to your father.

@Bob Roller: Thanks for the warm welcome.

The catalog for the RM auction in St. John's is now online. The history description of the J-134 has a lot of if, could be and maybe. My english is not perfect, so what I understand of the description is that it is a J-engine mounted on a reproduction frame of onknown production with the original 2159 car firewall.
Body and Supercharger would be made and mounted in the 70ies.

So in my opinion this is a nice looking replica with some original parts mounted. Or I am wrong with my opinion?

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Steve Derus
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01 Jul 2011 23:58 #20397 by Steve Derus
Replied by Steve Derus on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Chris,

Wishing your Dad a recovery that is faster than a Duesenberg.

Steve

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  • Chris Summers
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01 Jul 2011 17:52 #20395 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Thanks for the kind words, guys. Mom and I visited him this morning and he is feeling terrific and basically back to his old self aside from the expected fatigue, etc. Nothing that shouldn't be happening is happening. All signs are good for a full recovery.

Chris Summers
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  • Mike Dube
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01 Jul 2011 17:08 #20394 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Chris,

Sorry to hear this, but it sounds as if he's doing as well as can be expected. My best wishes to your father.

And a big 10-4 that we should all take better care of ourselves.

Mike
8-100A

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01 Jul 2011 12:49 #20393 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

fyreline wrote: Nothing but best wishes for you and your dad, Chris . . . hoping for a speedy and complete recovery for him.

Thanks for all you do for us here. It's therapy for us all.


+1

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01 Jul 2011 00:22 #20390 by fyreline
Replied by fyreline on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Nothing but best wishes for you and your dad, Chris . . . hoping for a speedy and complete recovery for him.

Thanks for all you do for us here. It's therapy for us all.

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30 Jun 2011 23:39 #20389 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
To anyone concerned, yes, Dad had chest pains yesterday afternoon, was taken to the hospital and they performed an emergency quadruple bypass (one artery was fully clogged, three others were damaged). He is stable, awake, alert, and in good spirits, and we are hopeful for a full, although long and slow, recovery. To all of us in the family this has been a wake-up call to take better care of ourselves.

That said, Duesenbergs help me deal with anxiety, so you'll be seeing me on here off and on still when I'm not at the hospital or taking up his slack for the local newspaper.

Chris Summers
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  • Bob Roller
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30 Jun 2011 23:34 #20388 by Bob Roller
Replied by Bob Roller on topic Dual carburetor blowers
First to Matt,
Viele Grusse aus Amerika senden Dir und jetz dem fragen Zwei vergassers mt Kompressor.
Now a bit of news.Chris Summers father had a coronary event that put him in the ICU and 4 bypasses later he SEEMS to be getting along OK according to Chris.
In the 1950's,it was said that 6 dual caburetor superchargers were built in the day when these cars were available as a new vehicle.That left 31 with single carburetor blowers. I saw SJ572 in 1952 and it had the dual carburetors on it then and it was installed in a car that originally carried J240. The dual carburetor arrangement on the Duesenberg Special was an obvious conversion of a single carb unit by using a pipe altered to accept the second carburetor.
Harry VanIderstine told me about the problem of power loss with J572 and after thinking it over for a while,it was my opinion that the two carburetors were pushing too much fuel and strangling or flooding the engine because both discharge pipes were blowing into the place once occupied by a single down draft carburetor. The "Special" had twin manifolds which was a much better intake arrangement,
The Gary Cooper SSJ was an SJ from new.I don't know about the so called "Clark Gable"SSJ. The Brunn bodied SJ528 was also supercharged as a new car. I recall Harry Schulzinger saying he had a blower but decided to go with the rebore/high compression pistons instead. It worked quite well.
Personally,I am against adding superchargers,side pipes and manifolds to any car that did not have them in 1937.

Bob Roller

Bob Roller

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  • landmark
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30 Jun 2011 12:47 #20383 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

Chris Summers wrote: Hi Matt,

Per my files the car has the original engine J-134 with a renumbered bellhousing and a reproduction frame built in the early 1970s. I have seen letters documenting that at least the side members of the frame were reproduction at that point, probably all of it as I have never seen any evidence that original frame 2159 survives.

The body is not the original Walton Speedster, which survives elsewhere, but was built during the restoration.

I will happily eat my words if any contrary evidence can be presented, but at the moment I believe the car to have a replica frame until someone with further knowledge can tell me otherwise.


Hello Chris,

thank you for the information.

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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30 Jun 2011 12:37 #20382 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Hi Matt,

Per my files the car has the original engine J-134 with a renumbered bellhousing and a partially reproduction frame built in the early 1970s. I have seen letters documenting that at least part of the frame was reproduction at that point and that what original pieces were used came from 2286. I do not believe that any part of original frame 2159 (the original of J-134) survived.

The body is not the original Walton Speedster, which survives elsewhere, but was built during the restoration.

I will happily eat my words if any contrary evidence can be presented, but at the moment I believe the car to have a replica frame until someone with further knowledge can tell me otherwise.

Chris Summers
ACD Club
CCCA
H.H. Franklin Club

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29 Jun 2011 21:07 #20377 by landmark
Replied by landmark on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs

Chris Summers wrote: The second car is J-134 / replica frame, with a Bob Gassaway-built boattail body, formerly owned by Richard and Linda Kughn.


Hello everybody,

I am new at this forum, so allow me to introduce myself.

My name is Matt, I am german, so please excuse that my english is not perfect.
I live round about 40 mls north of Kirchheide, the birthplace of the Duesenberg-brothers.
I am interested in Duesenberg cars for more than 20 years. I am fascinated by the avant-garde engineering and the wonderful body designs.

My question is; can anyone tell more about the history of the J-134?
It is a very good looking car, but is it a proper historical Duesenberg?

According to J.L. Elbert it was originally delivered as a LeBaron convertible sedan with the frame number 2159. At what time the Gassaway Speedster Body was mounted?
Chris Summers wrote that today a replica frame is mounted. What happened to the original frame? Was the original frame damaged (by accident) and had to be replaced?
The car is now offered by RM Auctions at the St. John's auction. Today there is no (history) discription of the car available at the RM-website, but it is offered with the frame number 2159.

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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  • Mike Dube
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30 Jan 2009 01:15 #12582 by Mike Dube
Replied by Mike Dube on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
It is not open to the public.

Mike
8-100A

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28 Jan 2009 19:52 #12577 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
The cars belong to Harry Yeaggy, a Club member with contact info in the directory. I suppose you could give him a call.

Chris Summers
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28 Jan 2009 19:48 #12576 by paul111
Replied by paul111 on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Is it open to the public? I live a few miles north and would love to take a look.

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28 Jan 2009 18:43 #12575 by Chris Summers
Replied by Chris Summers on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Cincinnati, OH.

Chris Summers
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28 Jan 2009 18:30 #12574 by paul111
Replied by paul111 on topic Twin carbed Duesnebergs
Where is this collection?

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