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Cord 812 Originality Photos
- Terry Cockerell
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Yes this HB Cord has an arm chair beverly interior. I read in an old Newsletter that this car was originally Cadet Grey with a blue interior. The current owner is in Melbourne.
T cockerell
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- Jonathan Richards
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- Terry Cockerell
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The grill does not have the turned up edge at the back of the louvers like all "normal production" Cords.
I believe this must be one of the Hand Built cars and maybe one of the actual Show cars.
The attached pictures are of Serial No 810 1044 A which now lives in Australia.
T cockerell
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- Red Brick
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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- 1748 S
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Gary Parsons
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- johnmereness
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JMM
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- Ivor
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Ivor.
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- wcoye
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You mentioned that Rick Hulet was a stickler for authenticity. Has anyone continued his legacy? An archive of Rick's pictures would be invaluable to those of us trying to get as "original" as possible.
Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award
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- johnmereness
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JMM
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- VLM
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In regards to showing at Auburn, I was using it as an example. Although I’m working on three restorations, my primary reason to bring them to a show like Auburn to share the uniqueness of each car with others who are passionate about the Cords. As for the issue of judging, I understand that ACD has certain standards that they look for in judging a car which varies from what the judges at Pebble Beach or Amelia Island might look for. Some shows are looking for the fender gaps to match what came out of the factory and others look for perfection in the continuity of the gap width. The one thing that all judges are looking for is that the parts are authentic in their construction and appearance; that all of the bolts look like the bolts used in 1936-37; and so on. I think that Bill Coye made this point most eloquently. He just wants to know that splash guards should have been there and what they should look like. Ditto for all us.
Bill: There is no reason to “shell out some bucks” for this site. There are no plans to do a book. The idea is to provide photos and commentary which will help people like you and I who don’t have local access to knowledgeable specialists due to geological distances. It is meant as a site that people can use at no cost; as a place share information. I will absorb the cost which will likely be quite modest.
Vic
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- wcoye
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This forum has been immensely helpful but because of all the menusha I think many of us don't know what we have done incorrectly or for that matter don't even know what needs to be done. Case in point engine splash guards . Didn't even know there were such things until I lost points for not having them. I could go on and won't. Just if there was an authenticity reference available I'd be willing to shell out some bucks for it.
Bill
Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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You really can't go by how the cars today. There aren't enough original cars left to be able to say how it was done on all cars and where the changes were made. All we can say is on Early cars it was this way and later cars it was that way...and in some cases the middle cars were another way.
Early in my addiction to Cords I was able to talk with many of the people who had been studying the cars since the 1940's. They were still learning and finding out new things and finding stuff that didn't fit in to any of the known information.
If you want to compete at Auburn you should follow the judging standards. If you want to restore a Cord to "as it came from the factory" you will be very lucky to get a second place (the cars today are much better then when they came from the factory).
The ACD Club is more about preserving the cars and the history then the judging.
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- 1748 S
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Gary Parsons
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- VLM
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Let's agree to disagree about it being impossible to put together a photo library of originality. One of my cars (which was in terrible condition and is now being hammered into a Cord "continuation" car) was the 20th car made. We thought originally that it might have been a prototype but thankfully it wasn't (as nobody would forgive me cutting up a prototype). It turned out that a range of parts on the first cars were salvaged from disassembled prototypes. For example, the car had aluminum cast (rather than stamped steel) inside window frames as well as a spare tire shelf that went right across the trunk. It took the sleuthing of Rick Hulett, Dave Ryan, John Baeke and Stan to figure out just what took place. With an authenticity site, this could have been recorded and other members may know when the transition to stamped window frames and ¾ spare tire shelf took place by looking at their own cars (or maybe they know already).
I live on the West Coast of Canada. If I have a car which I want to compete at Auburn, I will only have one shot at it. It is unlikely that I would make such a trek a second time. There will not be multiple opportunities for me to figure out what the judges like or dislike based the number of times that I attend Auburn. The object is to show the craft of the restoration, is it not? The cars had a lot of handmade elements to them but not all that much. Dave Ryan has worked on a range of very rare Cords when he was at RM (Berlines, Sportsmans, Customs, etc.). We have discussed at length the ways that the cars differed over the years but there is no reason why such variations can’t be recorded and shared. The object of showing at ACD is to display as perfect a car as possible relative to how it left the factory, no? Shouldn’t we all be working together to share our knowledge of how the cars evolved from the first one off the line to the last one? A lot of people enjoy people enjoy tracking down the minutia of just how the cars were made but it seems a shame not have an outlet to share this knowledge. When Rick was working on his revised trunk kits just before he died, I asked him why he cared so much to get things exactly as they were when they left the factory. He told me that he did this out of respect for the workers who made the car. He felt that their workmanship could only be honoured by us working to reproduce it they originally made it. I can buy into that line of thought. I think that is why Rick was so generous with his knowledge to a complete stranger (as I was the first time that I called – we never met in person but spent dozens of hours talking about how the cars were put together). One of our earliest conversations was him making it clear to me that my door pleat count was wrong (22 not 21). I always counted 22 but he assured me that I only had 21. Far too much knowledge disappears with lost “masters”. I’d like to see that change.
I don’t expect everybody to be on board with an originality site but I believe that many would find it of interest and would like to contribute. After speaking to my programmer about the issue, he suggested a series of blogs on the web site by each part of the car (door, trunk, and so on). People could post pictures and commentary to any of the blogs. Once there was agreement on what was original (or there were details of how things changed from car to car), then the relevant photos would be transferred to a separate section of the site which would be more “authoritative” so to speak. It would still be open to change but it would certainly provide a foundation. I should have a mock-up to share in a couple of weeks. My interest lies solely in the 810/812 but I’d be happy to share the programming with anybody who would like to do it for other ACD cars. If anybody would prefer to do this instead of me, I’m fully ok with it. I have no attachment to owning or controlling it, I just want to see it happen.
Vic Marks
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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You are only going to find out what is correct for your car with a lot of research. The judging standards is a start to tell you what the judges are accepting but that doesn't mean is the way it came on your car.
In short it's almost impossible to put together a photo library of originality.
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- johnmereness
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JMM
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- VLM
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- mikespeed35
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CORDiallyMike
Mike Huffman
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- 1748 S
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Gary Parsons
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- VLM
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1) Has anybody built up a photo library of "originality"? This would be extremely helpful in the restoration process as I've got a couple of cars in process and using the other cars for "originality" is a bit questionable (even though one of them was a "barn find" from 1957). For example, the issue of the correct headlight color could easily be a simple photo and tag which would have saved WCOYE a good amount of extra work.
2) Can anybody tell me if the results from the 2019 ACD judging are available on the site? Also, can I get PDF versions of the Newsletters for the past few years (including the directory)? Or perhaps purchase back issues? I assume that the details are the site somewhere but I've had no luck finding them.
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