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Transmission pumps

  • JIM.OBRIEN
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29 Nov 2019 16:12 #38940 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Transmission pumps
First off Gary we are talking about the transmission not the engine. These are very different lubrication systems and have to be treated differently. Second, after rebuilding numerous transmissions and taking detailed look at the failures, the only time I have seen the synchronizers over travel and release the balls and springs are when the original 3rd gear thrust washer fails (I have never seen of heard of the larger thrust washers failing) or it the transmission was not assembled properly.

There are two reasons the transmission oil pumps to be worn out. First is large parts (balls, springs and teeth) get in the pump and wipe out the gears. Second is the design of the pump and improper rebuilding. If you look at worn out pumps they either have chunks out of them from large particles or the driven shaft is wobbling and wearing out the body of the pump.

The drive shaft is the big problem. The rear portion of the shaft (between the gears and the drive tang) is held in place by a hole in the pump body. This is a drilled hole in cast iron with poor tolerance. When rebuilding the pump the hole is usually worn out. The hole MUST be put back (drill and sleeve is one method) in the correct location or the transmission shaft and the pump shaft will not be aligned resulting in wear.

The front of the drive shaft is held in place by the pump cover. There is no alignment between the cover and the body and the housing except the screw holes. There is nothing to take up a thrust load except the housing itself. The result is worn cover and housing.

The real key to the pump lasting is proper rebuilding and upgrades. I think it was Al Goodman who had some notes and upgrades on rebuilding the pumps. Also Doc Flywheel had some improvements. With these changes alone I have rebuilt pumps and had them go over 50,000 miles with very little wear. There will be an upcoming Newsletter article on this subject.

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30 Nov 2019 00:46 #38941 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Transmission pumps
Thanks Jim for the continued information on thesegrease pumps.
I looked at the Henry Portz modifications to these pumps and feel it may not be the best idea. Henry changed the gears thickness from the original 5/16 to a full 3/8 inch. He also installed a bushing in the cover to steady the drive gear. Sadly he did not improve on the drive tang. I investigated this in depth. There is really no way to strengthen this area. If you make the drive shaft from 9/16 instead of 1/2 inch material you still have the pinion shaft at the bottom of the trans. There is just no way to make that area stronger. If you look at page 13 in this forum you can see what Terry Cockrell saw when he visited with Henry back in 2015. Also you can see my unfinished pump modifications. I had asked Cathy, Henry's daughter to look for this spacer Henry made up for the pumps he restored but she and A friend of Henry's name Roger Von Bergen could not find what I was interested in purchasing. She said I was welcome to come and look around. I really need to do that soon.


Gary Parsons

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  • mikespeed35
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30 Nov 2019 05:42 - 30 Nov 2019 05:44 #38942 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Transmission pumps
All of this reengineering is interesting and I pretend to now nothing about 810-12 Cords. A good friend of mine told me most problems with old cars are caused by their owners. I am in the middle of correcting some of those modifications in a car that was supposed to be a improvement and caused a failure. Tread lightly.
CORDiallyMike

Mike Huffman
Last edit: 30 Nov 2019 05:44 by mikespeed35.

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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30 Nov 2019 13:56 #38943 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Transmission pumps
Very True Mike!!!! Half of my work on Cords if fixing what others have screwed up. The Cord 810/812 is really an amazing piece of engineering all things considered. They lacked some of the modern materials we have now and there are a couple of weak spots that time has revealed. But overall I am still amazed at how well designed and engineered these cars are considering how radical a design they were for the time.
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30 Nov 2019 16:00 #38944 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Transmission pumps

mikespeed35 wrote: All of this reengineering is interesting and I pretend to now nothing about 810-12 Cords. A good friend of mine told me most problems with old cars are caused by their owners. I am in the middle of correcting some of those modifications in a car that was supposed to be a improvement and caused a failure. Tread lightly.
CORDiallyMike


I agree Mike. On my car I have "found" some really horrible "improvements". One stands out was the oil pan attaching rails where the bolts go thru to the block. Someone foolishly welded in pieces of 1/2 inch angle iron to strengthen the bolting rail probably to stop oil leaks. The pan bolts were so close to the angle iron that I had to use an open end wrench to remove them one hex flat at a time because the bolt hex contacted the inside of the welded angle iron.
Then to stop the cowl vents from leaking rain water someone welded in patches in the original openings. The inside lip was ruined by bending it for no reason and ALL the vents and the screens with all the attachments removed from under the dash. This has been my worst repair so far.I really do not know if I have the stills to repair it but will try. I can't make it any worse.
So far the easiest repair I have returned to original is the manual shifting of the transmission.Dad told me the owner he purchased the Cord from said he had NOT completed the transformation to complete manual shifting. Some pieces were missing. I have collected all the needed pieces missing to return my Cord to original electric vacuum shifting.


Gary Parsons

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  • Terry Cockerell
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01 Dec 2019 05:42 - 01 Dec 2019 05:46 #38952 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Transmission pumps
Attached are a picture of the screen as fitted in my gear box and my proposal to modify the oil pump inlet so as not to restrict the oil flow. I completely missed seeing the restriction introduced by the screen when I first rebuilt the gearbox ten years ago. Working alone is the problem although not really a good excuse.
During the current restoration which has been a very slow process more attention has been given to specific areas as well as learning more as I go along. Here in Australia there is nobody who can supply information on Cords, thank God for the ACD Club, the Internet, Emails and the wonderful friends I have made in America and Canada along the way.
I still believe a screen is a good idea to help protect the pump. The holes in the screen are 2 mm diameter and enough of them equal the cross sectional area of the pump inlet. By carefully grinding the inlet port as shown in the sketch an unrestricted flow can be attained. The casting thickness is sufficient to achieve this but extreme car must be taken.
My overall aims are to restore the car, conserve it and protect it plus have a reliable driver.

T cockerell
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Last edit: 01 Dec 2019 05:46 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Revising text and adding pictures
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