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Transmission pumps
- JIM.OBRIEN
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I want to see photos when you are done!!!
CORDially,
Jim
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- Terry Cockerell
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Thanks again for steering me in the right direction. Your comments are worth many "Dollars."
T cockerell
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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Just my 2 cents.
Jim
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- Terry Cockerell
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During the current restoration which has been a very slow process more attention has been given to specific areas as well as learning more as I go along. Here in Australia there is nobody who can supply information on Cords, thank God for the ACD Club, the Internet, Emails and the wonderful friends I have made in America and Canada along the way.
I still believe a screen is a good idea to help protect the pump. The holes in the screen are 2 mm diameter and enough of them equal the cross sectional area of the pump inlet. By carefully grinding the inlet port as shown in the sketch an unrestricted flow can be attained. The casting thickness is sufficient to achieve this but extreme car must be taken.
My overall aims are to restore the car, conserve it and protect it plus have a reliable driver.
T cockerell
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- 1748 S
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mikespeed35 wrote: All of this reengineering is interesting and I pretend to now nothing about 810-12 Cords. A good friend of mine told me most problems with old cars are caused by their owners. I am in the middle of correcting some of those modifications in a car that was supposed to be a improvement and caused a failure. Tread lightly.
CORDiallyMike
I agree Mike. On my car I have "found" some really horrible "improvements". One stands out was the oil pan attaching rails where the bolts go thru to the block. Someone foolishly welded in pieces of 1/2 inch angle iron to strengthen the bolting rail probably to stop oil leaks. The pan bolts were so close to the angle iron that I had to use an open end wrench to remove them one hex flat at a time because the bolt hex contacted the inside of the welded angle iron.
Then to stop the cowl vents from leaking rain water someone welded in patches in the original openings. The inside lip was ruined by bending it for no reason and ALL the vents and the screens with all the attachments removed from under the dash. This has been my worst repair so far.I really do not know if I have the stills to repair it but will try. I can't make it any worse.
So far the easiest repair I have returned to original is the manual shifting of the transmission.Dad told me the owner he purchased the Cord from said he had NOT completed the transformation to complete manual shifting. Some pieces were missing. I have collected all the needed pieces missing to return my Cord to original electric vacuum shifting.
Gary Parsons
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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- mikespeed35
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CORDiallyMike
Mike Huffman
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- 1748 S
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I looked at the Henry Portz modifications to these pumps and feel it may not be the best idea. Henry changed the gears thickness from the original 5/16 to a full 3/8 inch. He also installed a bushing in the cover to steady the drive gear. Sadly he did not improve on the drive tang. I investigated this in depth. There is really no way to strengthen this area. If you make the drive shaft from 9/16 instead of 1/2 inch material you still have the pinion shaft at the bottom of the trans. There is just no way to make that area stronger. If you look at page 13 in this forum you can see what Terry Cockrell saw when he visited with Henry back in 2015. Also you can see my unfinished pump modifications. I had asked Cathy, Henry's daughter to look for this spacer Henry made up for the pumps he restored but she and A friend of Henry's name Roger Von Bergen could not find what I was interested in purchasing. She said I was welcome to come and look around. I really need to do that soon.
Gary Parsons
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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There are two reasons the transmission oil pumps to be worn out. First is large parts (balls, springs and teeth) get in the pump and wipe out the gears. Second is the design of the pump and improper rebuilding. If you look at worn out pumps they either have chunks out of them from large particles or the driven shaft is wobbling and wearing out the body of the pump.
The drive shaft is the big problem. The rear portion of the shaft (between the gears and the drive tang) is held in place by a hole in the pump body. This is a drilled hole in cast iron with poor tolerance. When rebuilding the pump the hole is usually worn out. The hole MUST be put back (drill and sleeve is one method) in the correct location or the transmission shaft and the pump shaft will not be aligned resulting in wear.
The front of the drive shaft is held in place by the pump cover. There is no alignment between the cover and the body and the housing except the screw holes. There is nothing to take up a thrust load except the housing itself. The result is worn cover and housing.
The real key to the pump lasting is proper rebuilding and upgrades. I think it was Al Goodman who had some notes and upgrades on rebuilding the pumps. Also Doc Flywheel had some improvements. With these changes alone I have rebuilt pumps and had them go over 50,000 miles with very little wear. There will be an upcoming Newsletter article on this subject.
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- rlwardne
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My thought was to pull oil from bottom of case, Run to a screened fuel filter that is around 100 140 micron screen. The filter unit is decent sized that it will pass plenty of volume. Plug inlet of pump and tap side for inlet from the filter. All this will be below the fill line of the trans.
All the pieces are available from Speedway, Jegs. Summit
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- Terry Cockerell
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I will be posting some sketch ideas soon.
T cockerell
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- 1748 S
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Gary Parsons
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- 1748 S
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JIM.OBRIEN wrote: Mike - What is the magnet on the oil filter really doing? The filter will take out any metal in the oil so the magnet is redundant. The only way the magnet would do any good is if the filter ruptured allowing the oil to go thru without being filtered. In that case you have bigger issues.
JIm
Jim is is not exactly true. Nearly every engine oil filter is only "catching" the big stuff.. What damages the engine surfaces has always been the small unseen particles carried thru the filter by the oil. I know of only one filter that works on the small stuff. Its called OBERG... Its a screen only type element and it sure will filter the bad stuff out of the oil. Even a fresh rebuilt engine is rubbing off metalic pieces on the first stratup. The plugs up the screen to set the alarm light off telling you your in bypass and to clean the screen. Remember dirty oil is better than no oil. Even today on a cold stratup our engine oil is thick. So much so that it causes the oil to go theu the bypass. In my diesel the oil filter as with most filters has a built in bypass so the engine gets oil no matter what.. My oil filter adapter that is factory has an oil regulating valve in it. Without the regulator the filter will be blown off the mount.
Many filter studies have been done explaining how the filter media captures a certain size contaminant but allows smaller to pass with the oil..
I do understand a few things about our transmission in the Cord thru so many helpful tips on this and other members. Sadly if our synchro hubs over-travel causes the springs and balls to fall out. Then they drop down into the lower cluster. That causes any tans to need overhaul. Breaking off a gear tooth is as bad in the same way.
Gary Parsons
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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JIm
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- Thomas Wilcock
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Tom
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- mikespeed35
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that goes around the oil filter for modern cars. Since all oil goers through the filter on modern cars probable not a bad idea. I know some oil goes through the bypass.
Cordially Mike
Mike Huffman
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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Best practice is to put a good magnet (rare earth) in the pipe plug at the front bottom of the transmission. This will catch any large particles as well as a mess of smaller ones from grinding 1st and reverse.
Putting a filter in front of the Cord transmission pump is asking for trouble. You will not be able to get the proper oil flow thru it.
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- 1748 S
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Gary Parsons
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- rlwardne
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I would venture to say that a lot of cars dont have operating pumps unless they have a way to monitor the pressure side. I have a gauge coming off the trans filter. It was around 30 psi with fairly heavy oil, in 10 miles it locked and wiped out the tang again. This whole system is backwards. What Id really like is an engine driven pump and not have to worry about it at all. I do have a mod in mind using a screened filter and pull the oil from the trans case and tap the the pump inlet.
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- Terry Cockerell
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Original screen plate in gear box had holes 0.100" diameter
New screen plate has holes 0.075" diameter
After seeing the amount of shavings in the filter when first removed I expected the oil pump gears to be destroyed however they were in excellent condition. The cover plate had score marks that were sanded out on a face plate using fine emery paper and kerosene.
T cockerell
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- rlwardne
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pumps that are installing screens in the inlet, what mesh of screen are you using?
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