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810 trunk interior

  • johnmereness
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05 Jan 2020 18:17 #39181 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
Sidenote: I recently bought the original Burco style fasteners (for my Auburn trunk) for the pocket and trunk from www.restorationspecialties.com - very nice plating on the parts too. See their catalog page 177 - and had note inside too that they could source other Burco fasteners now in plated too.

JMM

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05 Jan 2020 17:44 #39178 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
Terry, it looks like your car is upholstered like this one:

JMM

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05 Jan 2020 17:36 #39177 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
Sidenote: I posted a photo above with the metal edging around the trunk opening and trunk hinges being black - my "best" guess is they would have originally color keyed/painted to the color of the car ?

JMM

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05 Jan 2020 17:32 - 05 Jan 2020 17:39 #39176 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
I am updating this post with some additional (and some duplicate pictures) from Terry Cockerill

Here is Terry's note: John, I am assuming that you are referring to the trunk carpet?
Actually there was none in the trunk when I purchased the car. The only lining material in the trunk was inside the trunk lid.
I had reference sketches from two sources. One showed a long strip of the striped material under the jack shaft while the other showed the striped material following the line of the trunk opening. I opted for the latter as it looks better however I put the edge of the material under the adjacent cover plate just to hold it in place. The carpets were made in separate pieces and edged all round.


JMM
Last edit: 05 Jan 2020 17:39 by johnmereness.

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05 Jan 2020 00:10 #39171 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
I saw a few decent photos albeit cannot vouch for exact authenticity (they referenced matterial came from Rick Hulett - on bringatrailer.com/listing/1937-cord-812-westchester-sc/

JMM

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  • john mccall
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23 Nov 2019 04:10 #38889 by john mccall
Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior
We don't really need to go looking for some a new material for the trunk interior. The original material was burlap, and it is readily available from many sources today, and it is cheap. It doesn't seem to be readily available with diagonal lines as was used by Cord in '36 and '37. The trick is to find some process by which to add the diagonal lines on a little more of a production line basis than one at a time, even though that does work. George Ehresman, who was responsible for restoring some 27 Cords, told me he used that technique when I was looking at the last one he restored, so it has been done more than once.
If you can get the diagonal lines on the burlap, the next step is to adhere the burlap to a jute backing. Originally it was needled together, today we have many types of spray adhesives that would make that job pretty easy, even for amateur restorers.
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  • balinwire
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22 Nov 2019 04:54 #38888 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic 810 trunk interior
this reminded me of Porsche floor mats, I asked this distributor if he had anything, his response, Good afternoon,

We do have 2 options for you. I recommend the Grey Tweed, and then you can die it to be the color you need. Please see the image link below for a quality image sample of the Grey Tweed

collectorsautosupply.sirv.com/Supplier/R...rey-Tweed-Carpet.jpg

The second option is the Brown Tweed pattern that we have, but it looks like it may not work for your requirements, due to the color pattern. Please see the image link below for the Brown Tweed.

collectorsautosupply.sirv.com/Supplier/R...own-Tweed-Carpet.jpg

Let us know what you think.

Jon

Thank you,

Collectors Auto Supply
800.414.4462
(6am to 4pm Pacific Time)
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  • wynlaidig
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20 Nov 2019 13:03 #38880 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
Below is another original sample of lined burlap taken from #31934S, courtesy of Pete Kelly.

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17 Nov 2019 04:14 #38871 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic 810 trunk interior
No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationtool belt buckle reminds me of military weave belts.

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15 Nov 2019 12:59 - 15 Nov 2019 13:06 #38865 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
Jaguar used a material for the trunk mats and such through 50's and 60's - my guess it has the tanish-colored heavy woven Jute backing material for the mats is what we are looking for:

www.muncieimports.com/interior-products.html

www.basjaguartrim.com/

JMM
Last edit: 15 Nov 2019 13:06 by johnmereness.

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14 Nov 2019 14:08 #38858 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic 810 trunk interior
Thanks, 20 oz is the thinnest I've been able to find. Maybe in another 83 years the 20 oz stuff will degrade to 1/4 inch. ;^)

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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  • wynlaidig
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14 Nov 2019 12:22 #38856 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior

wcoye wrote: about how thick is the jute backing material? Stiff or flexible? Is it like thin carpet pad?


It is thin and flexible. Looks to be about 1/8" thick but hard to say due to deterioration over the past 80+ years. The thinnest carpet pad jute that I can find today is 20 oz, which is about 1/4" thick.

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14 Nov 2019 04:28 #38853 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic 810 trunk interior
about how thick is the jute backing material? Stiff or flexible? Is it like thin carpet pad?

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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13 Nov 2019 14:56 - 13 Nov 2019 14:57 #38846 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
I took a better picture of the buckle on the tool roll strap on a 1936 Auburn 852 Phaeton, though unfortunately I could not get my phone camera flash to continue to function for any more pictures. I so far have been unable to find a duplicate buckle still being manufactured today.

JMM
Last edit: 13 Nov 2019 14:57 by johnmereness.

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  • john mccall
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13 Nov 2019 03:16 #38843 by john mccall
Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior
John,
Thanks for posting these pics. I find that by blowing them up on this website that I can actually get a close scaling of the no. of lines per inch. If you look closely in the blown up mode, the samples are stapled to a white background paper. The standard office staple is just a tiny fraction less than 1/2 inch in length. Using this info, the no. of lines/inch is approximately 8-9 lines/inch. on both of Rick's original samples.
Going back thru all the previous posts, there were a number with scales on original trunk material.
MichaelR had material with approximately 6 lines/inch.
Terry's original had approximately 6 lines/inch.
Tim Gilmartin's had approximately 9 lines/inch.
Wyn ladigs' had approximately 8.5 lines/inch on both samples.

We are seeing 2 distinct patterns, nominally 6 and 9 lines/inch. We need S.N.s for Michael R's and Tim Gilmartin's material. to try to determine if there is a specific time when the two types were used.

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  • wynlaidig
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12 Nov 2019 13:12 #38835 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
The original burlap wasn't an extremely tight weave, but because the jute backing was needled through it, it had the appearance of being more tight than it actually was. Since we can't buy burlap with jute backing needled through it, I think the best that can be done now is to get a tightly weaved burlap, paint on the line pattern, and then adhere to a jute backing. I have closely examined original samples from four cars, and the samples seem to have no color added to the background... in other words, they had black lines printed on natural color burlap.

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11 Nov 2019 16:58 #38829 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic 810 trunk interior
Is this a fairly tightly woven burlap? Trying to figure out if I could successfully draw lines , (ala Terry Cockerell ) on burlap or paint tightly woven a burlap color like Terry did and draw the lines. One major plus to painting the fabric is it will seal the fabric and give it more body.

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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11 Nov 2019 15:06 - 11 Nov 2019 15:10 #38826 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
John McCall forwarded his photo for posting on his behalf:

This browser does not support PDFs. Please download the PDF to view it: Download PDF


JMM
Last edit: 11 Nov 2019 15:10 by johnmereness.
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  • wynlaidig
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11 Nov 2019 12:55 #38825 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
Question: In person, up close, do the materials appear to be from the same source, as well as having the same no. of lines per inch?
Answer: Yes, I would say they are from the same source. There is a very slight difference in the line spacing, but the jute backing, total thickness and the weave of burlap seem to be nearly identical in both samples.

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10 Nov 2019 13:44 #38820 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
John McCall - could you please post your picture or send to me for posting [email protected] ?

JMM

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08 Nov 2019 03:50 #38813 by john mccall
Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior
I reviewed my notes and emails from Rick Hulett. One email had 2 pics of the 2 different trunk materials used. The statement that Rick made relative to the materials was that the first material was used on 1936/1937 production cars. It was a jute backed burlap where the jute was needled to the burlap, which was ironed and printed with black lines. This time period would include all 810's and most of the 812's.
The second material was used on the late 1937 cars and was probably necessary because they ran out of the first batch and had to do a small batch print. This material would have been on the late 812's.
The pic's of the samples are small and are not relative to a scale to allow counting lines per inch although it is not obvious that there is a variation in number of lines per inch.
810 2489F is relatively close to the end of 810 production, but was before any true 812 production, falling into the middle of what Rick described as 36/37 production. 812 310112 is relatively close to the end of 812 production, and could be considered a late 37 in Rick's terminology. They both have the same line spacing.
Question: In person, up close, do the materials appear to be from the same source, as well as having the same no. of lines per inch?

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  • Terry Cockerell
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07 Nov 2019 22:28 #38812 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic 810 trunk interior
Hi Wyn.
From my understanding the Factory was focused on producing sedans during the early stage of production consequently a cabriolet with a low Serial Number would have been a real anomaly.
Both of your cars are "later " in the production run and both have the fine line trunk lining pattern which is consistent with what we know.

T cockerell

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  • wynlaidig
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07 Nov 2019 12:18 #38809 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
Oops. My mistake... the serial number us 810-2489F. Was looking at a photo of the chassis stamp and forgot to add the 1000.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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07 Nov 2019 03:25 #38805 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic 810 trunk interior
Wyn, this may seem a very dumb question but is the serial No 810 1489 F correct? The earliest listed cabriolet that I can seen in the lists of The Timeless Classic and Cord Complete has Serial No 810 2260 F
If the number is correct then you have an extremely rare Cord.

T cockerell

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06 Nov 2019 19:32 #38803 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
Back to the original topic... attached are two original lined burlap pieces -- one from 810-1489F and the other from an 812 Beverly 310112S. Both cars have the original interior and both burlap pieces have the finer line spacing.



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  • wcoye
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06 Nov 2019 14:54 #38799 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic 810 trunk interior
Just thinking...What we've created here is essentially a restoration manual. It's cool that there has been so many contributions and soooooo m.any hits.
I've noticed that the restoration manual topic has laid fallow formany years . Would it make any sense to gather what has been gathered here (yes, poor use of sentence structure) and with some judicious editing and post it in the restoration manual category?
I enjoy searching through post to find an answer but often I'm in a hurry and have cull through a lot of stuff to find what I need to know. Whadya think?

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
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2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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06 Nov 2019 13:40 #38797 by STEVEN.KUIPER
Replied by STEVEN.KUIPER on topic 810 trunk interior
thinking a bit more on this. a friend who was a corvette expert was judging a car with the owner watching. he felt under the front fender and let out a slight hummm. the owner immediately started to get excited. the owner wanted to know what was wrong. my friend said this car has had an incorrect repair in the past. shouting immediately ensued. well once things calmed down the owner admitted he knew about the repair.
judges have a tough job. revealing flaws on the show field sometimes can become a bit dangerous but, it would be nice for owners to know what they need to correct too. perhaps, a form sent after show day.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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06 Nov 2019 06:41 #38795 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic 810 trunk interior
Mike, no wonder there are 2,518 hits on this site so far.

T cockerell

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06 Nov 2019 04:48 #38794 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic 810 trunk interior
The inspectors around here get paid for each visit! Now you know the answer.
CORDiallyMike

Mike Huffman

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  • wcoye
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05 Nov 2019 14:59 #38789 by wcoye
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Strongly agreed!

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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05 Nov 2019 14:07 #38788 by STEVEN.KUIPER
Replied by STEVEN.KUIPER on topic 810 trunk interior
i've done quite a few building projects over the years.... almost exclusively on homes over 100 years old. one particular story might have some relevance here. the plumbing and heating inspector comes in to look over a newly installed furnace and duct work. he says" i'll never pass this till you fix the problems." and leaves. the furnace guys ( who had 30 years experience) scratch their heads look the job over and change a couple things. inspector comes back. same comment. they try a couple different things. same comment. finally they ask the inspector what he wants? he says, " i'm not here to do your job for you." after more trial & error they finally made him happy. wouldn't it have been more efficient if he had told them what was "wrong" on the first trip. that would have saved him 5 more trips to that job site.
if a given car clubs goal is to preserve & improve the remaining vehicles out there....we should provide as much help as is feasible to forward that goal. not all of us are interested in making a show car. however, i think most would like to raise the authenticity of the car they have. anything the club car do along those lines will have long term benefits to the body of remaining vehicles ...which will probably out live us.
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  • 1748 S
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04 Nov 2019 00:17 #38779 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic 810 trunk interior
Tim, I have to agree with you on the way we view restored cars today.Many years back I was so disappointed to learn having a car judged you never got to see where you was marked down. How can an owner bring a car to the best restored standard if they have no idea what or where to improve. I take my hat off to the many hard working club members that have worked tireless hours to bring about these welcomed changes.I really enjoyed watching, listening and asking questions at the recent west coast meet where you mock judged Randy's Beverly. Sadly I should have videoed it.


Gary Parsons

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  • Tim Gilmartin
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03 Nov 2019 23:20 #38778 by Tim Gilmartin
Replied by Tim Gilmartin on topic 810 trunk interior
Terry: Mary is listed with her husband, Tom Dudley in Michigan. She wanted to start a restoration manual for 810/812 Cords, but it never got off the ground. I remember seeing something in regard to the gas tank fill area years ago.
Best to contact her and maybe it can be posted here.
I have to give a shout out to Mark Tomei and Allan McCrary (and many others) for all their hard work on the new restoration standards for all three Marques.
Tim.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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03 Nov 2019 21:25 #38777 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic 810 trunk interior
Hi Tim, contributions are the key here. Quite a while ago I made contact with Mary Kileen ( I think I have the spelling right however she is not listed in the Directory) and she sent me a copy of the details on how to set up the petrol door area on a Cord. The details are extensive and quite precise.
Have other areas in Cords been covered with similar restoration guidelines?
If yes, how can they be accessed by the members?

T cockerell

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  • Tim Gilmartin
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03 Nov 2019 18:23 #38776 by Tim Gilmartin
Replied by Tim Gilmartin on topic 810 trunk interior
Thanks to the internet, the Club’s website, and contributor members, this is how we improve the breed! From what I’ve seen since the start of the new judging standards, ACD cars coming in for judging, are much improved.
I continue to learn about these great cars.
Thank you all for your interest and contributions of knowledge and pictures!
CORDially, Tim.
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02 Nov 2019 00:14 #38766 by john mccall
Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior
Well, it looks like Cord had more than one buckle supplier during their production time period . I don't know what SN my buckles came from, How about the other 2 examples.

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01 Nov 2019 06:13 #38762 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
This buckle does not have the bend in it either - I would assume Auburn and Cord used same components to a point given same body manufacturer

JMM

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01 Nov 2019 06:02 #38760 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
Here is a tool roll strap from a 1936 Auburn 852 Phaeton - I will take a better picture of it ASAP.

JMM

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01 Nov 2019 05:57 - 01 Nov 2019 05:58 #38759 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
I am wondering if the fuel tank filler neck covering was the same tan canvas as used for the tool rolls. I would call it a tan lightweight denim. The top material would be identifiable given it has a rubberized later between the inner and outer layers of canvas. A "duck" for the top would be single ply and very light weight - it was used for cosmetics in tops as interior trim. I have played around enough with this stuff that if someone would show me a piece of the filler neck material in person I could probably figure it out.

JMM
Last edit: 01 Nov 2019 05:58 by johnmereness.

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01 Nov 2019 01:34 #38758 by john mccall
Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior
The filler tube material looks different without the close up on the trunk side.(the lines really don't show up that much}. Earlier this year Rick was using tan/black top material for this application. Black on the filler side/tan on the trunk side. The small piece of original filler material that I have, has the rust wire lines as yours , but could have been the original Hartz cloth which was a green/grey on the outside .
I also have a couple of original jack straps with the stock rusty washers. Judging from the fact that my latch has the same configuration that yours does, neither is bent. That was the configuration that was used, and it works fine after almost 80 years. P.S. My son had me convinced mine was bent also, until I saw the pic of yours.
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01 Nov 2019 01:00 #38756 by john mccall
Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior
Except for the piece of jute that was on the back of the rear seat which was just jute, all of the trunk lining material was faced with a burlap material to which the lines were added. The exact coloring of either material in 1936 will probably never be known as time ages both the coloration and the material. My son recently acquired some of the jute backing material which is basically grey in color.
Rick went thru about 3 different suppliers over the course of time that he supplied the trunk kits. The face sheet with the lines changed with was available and economical. The jute backing to which the face sheet was adhered became basically illegal (Uncle Sam thought someone might smoke it},
Rick always tried to simulate the original material with affordable available materials.
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31 Oct 2019 21:24 - 31 Oct 2019 21:25 #38754 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
Thanks Tim, That makes sense.
Last edit: 31 Oct 2019 21:25 by wynlaidig.

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31 Oct 2019 21:23 #38753 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
Right, but fresh new burlap has a yellow golden color, like newly harvested wheat. So the question is whether is was naturally yellowish golden or whether they actually used died burlap to begin with.

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  • Tim Gilmartin
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31 Oct 2019 21:23 #38752 by Tim Gilmartin
Replied by Tim Gilmartin on topic 810 trunk interior
Hi Wyn: Yes, that one side was nice; but take a look at the fill side. Pretty gnarly. The nice looking fine line material is not the same as the burlap. All the burlap material had the “natural” color jute backing it.
Tim.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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31 Oct 2019 21:19 #38751 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic 810 trunk interior
Rick Hulett told me that all of the trunk lining material had the same yellowish golden background colour but it had faded with time.
I believe the striped material with the fine lines in Tim Gilmartin's picture is the outside of the fuel tank filler pipe sleeve.

T cockerell

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  • wynlaidig
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31 Oct 2019 17:54 #38749 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
Also, do we have any real evidence to know whether the background jute was natural color or whether it was died a yellow/gold as I see some people use? Every original jute I have seen seems to be natural colored to me, just with black lines on it.

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31 Oct 2019 02:34 #38743 by wynlaidig
Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior
I am not quite clear on the 2 lined burlap photos (with rulers) from Tim Gilmartin. Are BOTH supposed to be original, or is only the wider lined one original? The finer lined one looks too new and crisp to be original to me.

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29 Oct 2019 05:26 #38723 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior
Thanks Tim ! I hope you do not mind, I moved your photos and text over to the trunk page started a few days ago. Interestingly, the strap looks to be made of a different material than an Auburn (I will have to look more close). I think the buckle on the tool strap may be partially bent. Sidenote: Tim's car was my first ride in 36/37 Cord.

JMM

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29 Oct 2019 05:19 #38721 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior

Tim Gilmartin wrote: Picture of gas fill tube covering; note rust from wires that held it on the tube. Jack hold down straps with flat washers still stuck to the webbing.


JMM

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29 Oct 2019 05:18 #38720 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior

Tim Gilmartin wrote: Picture of backing material for the burlap; note faint outline of the “x” cross member of the back seat. Burlap with finer lines. Non burlap lined material was on the trunk side of the gas fill tube cloth wrap. The gas fill tube side is a tan/olive drab color.
Tim.


JMM

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