810 trunk interior

wynlaidig
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06 May 2021 02:21 - 06 May 2021 02:21 #43068 by wynlaidig

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Can anyone tell me the correct orientation for the canvas top material used for the "sling" that supports the convertible top when it folds up and is stored under the top lid? As I understand it, the same type of canvas is used for this "sling" that is used on the convertible top -- that mossy green color on the outside with the striped bowdrill on the inside. So for the sling, is the bowdrill side on the inside or the outside of the sling??

Last edit: 06 May 2021 02:21 by wynlaidig.

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06 May 2021 02:16 #43067 by wynlaidig

Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior

Thank you for your informative reply, John. I appreciate your help.

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06 May 2021 01:59 #43066 by john mccall

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Has some of this thread been inadvertently been dropped? The last post on page 21 was posted on1/2/20 while the first post on p.22 was posted on2/27/21, a year plus later.

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06 May 2021 01:32 #43065 by john mccall

Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior

No, I can't post pics as I am not literate in that technology. However I can add words to the brief statement "and the inside of the trunk lid which was also trimmed with the interior leather." From the frantic post last night it should also be obvious that I also can't type. That was something that only people who professed to want to be secretaries was taught when I went to school. I only took math, physics and chemistry, To put the above quoted statement in context, I was defining the surfaces where the striped burlap material was found inside the phaeton trunk. Unlike a Westchester trunk lid which is all metal, the inside of the trunk lid on a phaetons has wood support all the way around the edge and 2 vertical supports about 6-8 inches in from the sides. From the factory, the wood is covered with a leatherette material which matches the seat leather in color. This material is the same as that used on door panels and other interior areas. Since that type of material is much more rare than the interior leather, the interior leather is used to cover these wood supports on phaetons in recent past and today. The statement was meant to point out this difference from the Westchester and Beverly sedans which have an all metal trunk lid which is completely covered with the striped material except for the tail light areas as seen in Terry's pics of his trunk interior.
Note: From memory of discussions with Rick, the very late open cars had a leather covered panel which covered the complete inside of the trunk lid.
Pics would have possibly shown what these words have tried to describe. A few pics would not however show all the details of how this leather is folded and tacked to the wood surfaces. I had the trunk lid off of 1186H which still has the leatherette attached to use as a guide when I did my trunk lid.

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05 May 2021 02:59 #43053 by john mccall

Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior

I spent a long time trying to answer your question and the systemsaid it couldn't send tout because it was an obsolete system. So I'm just trying a short note to see if it will go.

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04 May 2021 13:20 #43044 by wynlaidig

Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior

John McCall, you mentioned earlier in this thread that you installed a phaeton trunk interior kit from Rick Hewlitt. You said the trunk lid was striped burlap trimmed with the interior leather. Could you possibly post a couple photos showing how this was trimmed in the leather? Also, the canvas "bag" that holds the convertible top is made of the top material, but which side is inside? Is the lined bowdrill on the inside or on the outside (trunk side)?

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04 Apr 2021 16:31 - 04 Apr 2021 16:36 #42827 by johnmereness

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Westchester:

JMM

Last edit: 04 Apr 2021 16:36 by johnmereness.

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04 Apr 2021 16:31 - 04 Apr 2021 16:33 #42826 by johnmereness

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Beverly:

JMM

Last edit: 04 Apr 2021 16:33 by johnmereness.

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27 Feb 2021 22:28 #42439 by Terry Cockerell

Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic 810 trunk interior

Hi John, thanks for adding these pictures to this topic. I looked for the topic but couldn't find it and assumed it had been deleted.
Below the towel rails is a stainless steel panel with side lights for the number plate. I have period Canadian plates that will be fitted to the car in the conventional locations. This topic has generated a huge amount of interest judging by the number of hits.

T cockerell

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27 Feb 2021 17:37 #42437 by johnmereness

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JMM

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22 Jan 2020 23:55 #39372 by Terry Cockerell

Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic 810 trunk interior

Wyn the widest piece in the lining would be the trunk (boot) lid.
You have that covered easily with 36" width.
Just to make things a bit more challenging Rick Hulett told me there was a correct orientation for the lines in each panel.
This is adequately covered by the pictures supplied by Michael in Germany of his original Westchester trunk ( boot ) lining.
Bill ...................... you are among great friends, even if we don't all have CANON copiers.

T cockerell

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22 Jan 2020 21:56 #39370 by wcoye

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I need to make better friends ;^)
Thanx, Bill

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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22 Jan 2020 19:47 #39368 by wynlaidig

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I called in a favor from a friend who has one at his work,

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22 Jan 2020 19:36 #39367 by wcoye

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Was this large format printing done at a sign co. like Fast Sign or do you have access to the printer at your work? I'm getting ready to Draw a lot of lines but being a lazy sort would love an alternative.
Bill

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2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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22 Jan 2020 02:24 #39365 by john mccall

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Wyn,

Congratulations,
That's one of the tricks that was needed to match the original trunk material.
Just need the jute backing, Taupe carpet, and some matching binding.

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22 Jan 2020 01:54 #39364 by john mccall

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His exact words "Trunk carpet was always that taupe/brown color with matching cloth binding. Exceptions were observed on an original Berline where the trunk carpets was same as the interior carpet. Cabriolets always had the trunk area same as the interior carpet."

After rereading those words, I take it as he observed one Berline with the exception to the rule. That wouldn't rule out more than one, and could also be construed to have an exception on a Custom Beverly, to my way of thinking.

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21 Jan 2020 21:19 #39361 by wynlaidig

Replied by wynlaidig on topic 810 trunk interior

I did this on a Canon Pro-4000S which will print up to 44" wide. I bought a length of 36" wide burlap (17 oz "sagless") and ran it through. There are some spots where the printing was not perfect probably due to irregularities in the burlap, but most of it turned out very nice.

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21 Jan 2020 21:08 #39360 by Terry Cockerell

Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic 810 trunk interior

Congratulations Wyn, it sure beats drawing them by hand.
What is the width of the printing machine ??????????????
This is an important contribution.

T cockerell

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21 Jan 2020 19:55 #39356 by wynlaidig

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Did Rick Hulett say anything about exceptions for Custom Beverlys or was it only for Custom Berlines and Cabriolets?

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21 Jan 2020 19:53 #39355 by wynlaidig

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I have been trying for a couple months to make the lined burlap trying various methods. I finally had success using a large format printer and printing the lines on burlap. I ended up using 9 cycles per inch, with about a "duty cycle" of about 40% for the black.

Attachments:

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19 Jan 2020 03:09 #39318 by john mccall

Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior

Jim,
In my email correspondence with Rick Hulett on Feb. 10, 2019 he indicated that the general rule was that the trunk carpet color was always a taupe/brown( to my eyes beige) color. The exception to that rule was on the Cabriolet's where the trunk carpet was always the same as the interior carpet. Other exceptions were on the Custom Berline where the interior and trunk carpet were the same color. He confirmed those statements in a Feb. 11 email.

Those emails are in the batch of info that I forwarded to you last year.

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14 Jan 2020 02:14 #39283 by JIM.OBRIEN

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I have no Idea when the change may have taken place. The original cars that I have worked on were all 810's and the trunk carpet were all the same color as the interior carpet. I don't recall seeing any documentation of a change in the rug material in the trunks of these cars.

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13 Jan 2020 21:55 #39281 by 1748 S

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So.... What trunk material was original in my Beverly sedan with a serial number of 1748 S. I recall someone telling me my build date was the end of January or the start of February 1937.

Gary Parsons

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13 Jan 2020 17:27 #39280 by wcoye

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Jim, Approximately how early are we talking about with this carpet detail?

Bill Coye
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2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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13 Jan 2020 15:18 #39275 by 1748 S

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wynlaidig wrote: When did the color of the trunk carpet change from being the same color as interior carpet? Was it always black at that point, or was it still sometimes interior color?

Good question.Am watching this post to learn what early means. Thanks for a great timely question.

Gary Parsons

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13 Jan 2020 12:07 #39272 by wynlaidig

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When did the color of the trunk carpet change from being the same color as interior carpet? Was it always black at that point, or was it still sometimes interior color?

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13 Jan 2020 00:26 #39268 by JIM.OBRIEN

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On the previous page the drawing noted the piece at the edge of the trunk to be burlap/jute. On the early cars at least this was rug material. Also on the early cars the rugs in the trunk were the same color as the interior rugs.

John - the trim pieces around the trunk opening were painted body color. They were in place when the body was painted, in fact if you pulled back the rugs or just you found overspray.

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11 Jan 2020 04:34 #39235 by VLM

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I have a wide format printer (24 inches wide IIRC) at work. I wonder if that could be used to print the lines. What type of marker pen did you use?

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07 Jan 2020 19:08 #39198 by johnmereness

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Terry, just reinforcing that you are 100% on the mark !

JMM

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06 Jan 2020 05:49 #39188 by Terry Cockerell

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John, I listed the Restoration Specialties Part Numbers for the BURCO fasteners on sheet No 6 of this Forum.

T cockerell

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05 Jan 2020 18:17 #39181 by johnmereness

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Sidenote: I recently bought the original Burco style fasteners (for my Auburn trunk) for the pocket and trunk from www.restorationspecialties.com - very nice plating on the parts too. See their catalog page 177 - and had note inside too that they could source other Burco fasteners now in plated too.

JMM

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05 Jan 2020 17:44 #39178 by johnmereness

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Terry, it looks like your car is upholstered like this one:

JMM

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05 Jan 2020 17:36 #39177 by johnmereness

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Sidenote: I posted a photo above with the metal edging around the trunk opening and trunk hinges being black - my "best" guess is they would have originally color keyed/painted to the color of the car ?

JMM

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05 Jan 2020 17:32 - 05 Jan 2020 17:39 #39176 by johnmereness

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I am updating this post with some additional (and some duplicate pictures) from Terry Cockerill

Here is Terry's note: John, I am assuming that you are referring to the trunk carpet?
Actually there was none in the trunk when I purchased the car. The only lining material in the trunk was inside the trunk lid.
I had reference sketches from two sources. One showed a long strip of the striped material under the jack shaft while the other showed the striped material following the line of the trunk opening. I opted for the latter as it looks better however I put the edge of the material under the adjacent cover plate just to hold it in place. The carpets were made in separate pieces and edged all round.

JMM

Last edit: 05 Jan 2020 17:39 by johnmereness.

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05 Jan 2020 00:10 #39171 by johnmereness

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I saw a few decent photos albeit cannot vouch for exact authenticity (they referenced matterial came from Rick Hulett -

1937_cord_812_westchester_sc_157660888475e44Cord_075_web.jpg

1937_cord_812_westchester_sc_157660887852ae3fCord_074_web.jpg

1937_cord_812_westchester_sc_157660887444c1e986Cord_073_web.jpg

on bringatrailer.com/listing/1937-cord-812-westchester-sc/

JMM

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23 Nov 2019 04:10 #38889 by john mccall

Replied by john mccall on topic 810 trunk interior

We don't really need to go looking for some a new material for the trunk interior. The original material was burlap, and it is readily available from many sources today, and it is cheap. It doesn't seem to be readily available with diagonal lines as was used by Cord in '36 and '37. The trick is to find some process by which to add the diagonal lines on a little more of a production line basis than one at a time, even though that does work. George Ehresman, who was responsible for restoring some 27 Cords, told me he used that technique when I was looking at the last one he restored, so it has been done more than once.
If you can get the diagonal lines on the burlap, the next step is to adhere the burlap to a jute backing. Originally it was needled together, today we have many types of spray adhesives that would make that job pretty easy, even for amateur restorers.

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22 Nov 2019 04:54 #38888 by balinwire

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this reminded me of Porsche floor mats, I asked this distributor if he had anything, his response, Good afternoon,

We do have 2 options for you. I recommend the Grey Tweed, and then you can die it to be the color you need. Please see the image link below for a quality image sample of the Grey Tweed

collectorsautosupply.sirv.com/Supplier/R...rey-Tweed-Carpet.jpg

The second option is the Brown Tweed pattern that we have, but it looks like it may not work for your requirements, due to the color pattern. Please see the image link below for the Brown Tweed.

collectorsautosupply.sirv.com/Supplier/R...own-Tweed-Carpet.jpg

Let us know what you think.

Jon

Thank you,

Collectors Auto Supply
800.414.4462
(6am to 4pm Pacific Time)
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20 Nov 2019 13:03 #38880 by wynlaidig

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Below is another original sample of lined burlap taken from #31934S, courtesy of Pete Kelly.

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17 Nov 2019 04:14 #38871 by balinwire

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No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationtool belt buckle reminds me of military weave belts.

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15 Nov 2019 12:59 - 15 Nov 2019 13:06 #38865 by johnmereness

Replied by johnmereness on topic 810 trunk interior

Jaguar used a material for the trunk mats and such through 50's and 60's - my guess it has the tanish-colored heavy woven Jute backing material for the mats is what we are looking for:

www.muncieimports.com/interior-products.html

www.basjaguartrim.com/

JMM

Last edit: 15 Nov 2019 13:06 by johnmereness.

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14 Nov 2019 14:08 #38858 by wcoye

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Thanks, 20 oz is the thinnest I've been able to find. Maybe in another 83 years the 20 oz stuff will degrade to 1/4 inch. ;^)

Bill Coye
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2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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14 Nov 2019 12:22 #38856 by wynlaidig

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wcoye wrote: about how thick is the jute backing material? Stiff or flexible? Is it like thin carpet pad?

It is thin and flexible. Looks to be about 1/8" thick but hard to say due to deterioration over the past 80+ years. The thinnest carpet pad jute that I can find today is 20 oz, which is about 1/4" thick.

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14 Nov 2019 04:28 #38853 by wcoye

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about how thick is the jute backing material? Stiff or flexible? Is it like thin carpet pad?

Bill Coye
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Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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13 Nov 2019 14:56 - 13 Nov 2019 14:57 #38846 by johnmereness

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I took a better picture of the buckle on the tool roll strap on a 1936 Auburn 852 Phaeton, though unfortunately I could not get my phone camera flash to continue to function for any more pictures. I so far have been unable to find a duplicate buckle still being manufactured today.

JMM

Last edit: 13 Nov 2019 14:57 by johnmereness.

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13 Nov 2019 03:16 #38843 by john mccall

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John,
Thanks for posting these pics. I find that by blowing them up on this website that I can actually get a close scaling of the no. of lines per inch. If you look closely in the blown up mode, the samples are stapled to a white background paper. The standard office staple is just a tiny fraction less than 1/2 inch in length. Using this info, the no. of lines/inch is approximately 8-9 lines/inch. on both of Rick's original samples.
Going back thru all the previous posts, there were a number with scales on original trunk material.
MichaelR had material with approximately 6 lines/inch.
Terry's original had approximately 6 lines/inch.
Tim Gilmartin's had approximately 9 lines/inch.
Wyn ladigs' had approximately 8.5 lines/inch on both samples.

We are seeing 2 distinct patterns, nominally 6 and 9 lines/inch. We need S.N.s for Michael R's and Tim Gilmartin's material. to try to determine if there is a specific time when the two types were used.

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12 Nov 2019 13:12 #38835 by wynlaidig

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The original burlap wasn't an extremely tight weave, but because the jute backing was needled through it, it had the appearance of being more tight than it actually was. Since we can't buy burlap with jute backing needled through it, I think the best that can be done now is to get a tightly weaved burlap, paint on the line pattern, and then adhere to a jute backing. I have closely examined original samples from four cars, and the samples seem to have no color added to the background... in other words, they had black lines printed on natural color burlap.

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11 Nov 2019 16:58 #38829 by wcoye

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Is this a fairly tightly woven burlap? Trying to figure out if I could successfully draw lines , (ala Terry Cockerell ) on burlap or paint tightly woven a burlap color like Terry did and draw the lines. One major plus to painting the fabric is it will seal the fabric and give it more body.

Bill Coye
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2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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11 Nov 2019 15:06 - 11 Nov 2019 15:10 #38826 by johnmereness

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John McCall forwarded his photo for posting on his behalf:

JMM

Last edit: 11 Nov 2019 15:10 by johnmereness.

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11 Nov 2019 12:55 #38825 by wynlaidig

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Question: In person, up close, do the materials appear to be from the same source, as well as having the same no. of lines per inch?
Answer: Yes, I would say they are from the same source. There is a very slight difference in the line spacing, but the jute backing, total thickness and the weave of burlap seem to be nearly identical in both samples.

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10 Nov 2019 13:44 #38820 by johnmereness

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John McCall - could you please post your picture or send to me for posting [email protected] ?

JMM

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