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A Cord authenticity question
- JIM.OBRIEN
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- STEVEN.KUIPER
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- vintageauto
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Thanks for all of your input on this post. In all honesty, I'm not sure how to go any further. The frame number question, and your explanation of the inconsistencies at the factory, kind of lead to a dead end regarding the frame.
Without the benefit of past owners comments regarding the VIN plate and the "A" vs. an "H" all we can do is speculate why that happened. This issue was an item in Mr. Malks book, but the fact remains...This is a Phaeton and not a Westchester Sedan. We had a suggestion just to re-stamp another VIN plate, but I'm not sure if that is even legal? The engine number is also consistent with Mr. Malks book. So, my thinking is to leave everything as it is. The issues with this car have been documented thru recent auction descriptions and outlined in Malk's book.
I have the car advertised for the owner. It is a very nice older restoration and the car presents itself very well, above average in my opinion. The undercarriage needs detailing for show purposes, but is more than satisfactory for a high-end driver. The asking price, in my opinion, is a bit high and I plan to discuss that with the owner, but it is his car. So, I hope more comments and opinions are shared on this thread, and thanks again for your comments, they are appreciated.
Vintageauto
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- JIM.OBRIEN
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The number on the frame is what we call the unit number. This number should be 1000 less then the serial number. So far this car the unit (frame) number is 1716. Therefore the serial number should be 2716. Since they basically started the numbering over for the 812's you can't tell from the numbers if the car is a 810 or 812, you have to dig deeper. Based on the serial number the car that was attached to that frame would have been one of the very last Cord built in 1936 since the numbers didn't go that high in 1937.
To answer other questions here, the unit number should always be 1000 less then the serial number except on the 1937 812 cars between 1001 and 1525. These were left over 1936 models that were renumbered to 1937 models. The frame numbers were never changed on these cars. To my knowledge every Cord that came out of the factory had the unit number stamped on the frame. There were some left over frames that did not have unit numbers stamped on them and since 1937 have found their way onto Cords.
From an authenticity stand point I would be more concerned with the serial number having an "A" in it. "A" means the car should be a Westchester and it is a phaeton. So did the plate get stamped wrong? Did the wrong plate get put on this car? Or is there some other exploitation? only some very serious research on the history of the car may tell.
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- 1748 S
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- STEVEN.KUIPER
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as the car is for sale....if it is all cord & title is clean then, does this frame # thing have any real affect on value?
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- vintageauto
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- NewbieCordFan
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- Terry Cockerell
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T cockerell
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- STEVEN.KUIPER
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when they say lightly stamped "lightly" is the operative word.
when i retrieved my "original" (blow torched) frame from a field, i had to strip all paint off to see even a shape of a number. they by doing rubbings and shining various light across the sufface i did make it out.
however, frame numbers did not match construction details of the body (early 1937).
so, it was either mismatched frame or long ago replacement frame.
as it was really damaged. i got a replacement frame.
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- mikespeed35
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CORDiallyMike
Mike Huffman
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Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is there a particular part of the firewall that would be helpful to see?
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- pete kelly
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I'd be very interested to benefit from the insights of the Cord cognoscenti on the forum about what I should make of this. Is the "A" on the top plate an issue, or is that just an error? Thanks very much for any help you may be able to give me.
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