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Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums

  • 1748 S
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04 Dec 2016 06:00 #31967 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
Can anyone tell me why the areas on the drums required the weld build up.

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  • mikespeed35
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13 Nov 2016 03:26 #31905 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
I have looked into Dyna Beads. Most times they are not used in tubes. Once they are put into a tube they are very difficult to remove. I have spoken to people who will use them after they balanced the tire the regular way. If you add the beads and are not happy with the results they are difficult to balanced any other way without removing the beads as they settle to the bottom of the tire each time the tire stops rotating and rebalance on each start up. The idea of the beads bouncing around on the tube on each start up is why I did not try them. If stickers put holes in tubes what will the beads do if they bounce in the same area time after time. If some one tries them please let us know how they work. I certainly have been wrong many times before.
Cordially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • Terry Cockerell
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10 Nov 2016 02:32 #31901 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
Well I finally finished balancing my brake drums this morning. After I had made suitable weights for the wheels they were welded to the side of the drums in the required locations.
I made sure there was space for the weights by using modeling clay as a trial between the rims and brake drums. The drums had repairs already done in the form of building up the areas where the wheel rim dimples sit.These had been machined to give a flat surface.
Again putting each drum on the wheel balancing machine and testing them I found they were out as expected due to the weight of the welds. Noting the small imbalance and marking the location I used a small angle grinder to remove the required amount of metal from the added weights. This required a bit of trial and patience as I didn't want to remove too much weight.
I noticed each time I re-positioned each drum on the machine the results varied by plus and minus 5 grams.
I settled for that and believe it will be a great improvement above 60 mph.
Now I just have to have the body repairs finished, get it painted and put it all back together.
Terry Cockerell
Australia

T cockerell
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  • Thomas Wilcock
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07 Nov 2016 12:36 #31891 by Thomas Wilcock
Replied by Thomas Wilcock on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
Further research indicates that tires with inner tubes can also be balanced with Dyna Beads.

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  • Thomas Wilcock
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06 Nov 2016 14:35 #31889 by Thomas Wilcock
Replied by Thomas Wilcock on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
I am curious if anyone has tried balancing wheels with Dyna Beads. It is used mainly for aircraft tires, tractor trailers and motorcycles but I see no reason not to use it in passenger cars as well. I think it is meant for tubeless tires. The ceramic beads are put in the tires and automatically keep them in balance. If you Google Dyna Beads balancing there are several sites. I recently had one of my Indian motorcycle flywheels balanced with mercury. A circular steel tube with some mercury in it is imbedded into one of the flywheels. The balance is good for any speed and piston weight. This works on the same principle as the bead balancing for tires. I am considering trying the beads in my van tires and if that works well them my Cord will get the same when it is ready. Tom

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  • Terry Cockerell
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03 Nov 2016 09:44 #31886 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
Thanks for you replies and suggestions.
At present I am making some steel weights to add to my drums. Yesterday I went along to a tyre (tire) shop to get the drums statically balanced on a wheel balancing machine. When the owner and I did the first drum he asked what type of car they were from. When I explained an 810 Cord he said "It looks like you know what you are doing so you do the other drums yourself." I was a bit stunned but took up the offer.
One front drum was perfect and didn't require any weight.
The other one was out by 100 grams and it was the worst.
The two rear drums were out by around 70 grams.
When finished I asked the owner how much I owed him. "Nothing ." was the reply. I said how thankful I was and asked could I recheck the drums when I had finally added the steel weights. "No problem>" was his generous reply.
When I get the weights finished and welded in place I will post some pictures. I have pressed the weights into a curved shape that will sit against the steel flange of the brake drums.
I told the guy in the tyre shop that I would by my tyres from him from now on.
Attached is a picture showing the method I found on the Internet for statically balancing the drums.

T cockerell
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  • balinwire
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01 Nov 2016 22:33 #31884 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
Hi Mike, good point about possible damage. I had the 812 lifted and went thru first, second, third and forth, wheels turning and no binding or any damage done. I get nervous the balancer could fly free and damage the fender and anything near it. This model will work on the modern steel wheels. I am not sure but the L29 has 17" wheels? I dont think this type balancer will accomadate the larger wheels in wire or wood spoke. Its just a test platform for now, In theory it should work, balancing all the moving mass as one load. I never have got over 45 mph yet and my bias tires never shook even though the re-centered wheels still need truing.

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  • mikespeed35
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01 Nov 2016 02:33 #31883 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
I don't know about a Cord 810/12 but if you jack up the front of a L-29 and run the car you can destroy the inner CV cups that slide in and out of the inner joints.
Cordially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • balinwire
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30 Oct 2016 18:13 #31879 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
When the Cords were built speeds were much lower and bubble balancing would have to do. In the fifties I remember a shop balancing my fathers car with a contraption that bolted on the wheel and there was a large wheel spinner, they told me to back off as I witnessed the car wheel spin to 60 MPH at a standstill. These balancers evolved into strobe balancers but were surpassed by modern wheel balancers. That is fine on modern cars but our old Cords, several cast iron drums, rivets, Rezeppa or Bendix joints and heavy axles, make up the steering. There was a lot of unbalanced metal in motion.
I remembered the old garage who balanced Dads car and went on a mission to find something similar, there were some with cabinets and lots of accessories but I found this bolt on adapter and a small spinner that work fine for the front drive Cord. The rear wheels could be bubble balanced. Finding instructions is another thing, none available. the closest I could find was a description of a fellow whos dad lost a finger on the spinning balancer, very dangerous in a shop, so plenty of warning.
I took this one apart and could see two weights spin in an orbit setting the scale to the light side of the wheel assembly where extra weight would be added and re-spun till correct balance was achieved. I am sure a lot of the Cord front shimmy was because more of an unbalanced condition rather than sloppy bearings etc. On the Cord you would not need the wheel spinner, jack up the front end and let her Lycoming drive the wheel spinner balancer.






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  • Terry Cockerell
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28 Oct 2016 04:43 #31871 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
Thanks for your prompt replies.
I had a look on the Internet and found a simple procedure for statically balancing the drums which I think will give the desired results I need. I had read that others with different makes of cars had the same problem and used this technique with good results.
Each drum needs to be checked on a balancing machine. The weight to be added noted and the position marked.
Adhesive weights are to be used. After checking the available gap or space between the inside of the wheel rim and the drum, a suitable size steel weight can be fabricated checking the weight and allowing for the welds, then welding it to the brake drum steel flange.
The amperage must be kept well below 100 amps to avoid causing distortion.
The next step is to check each drum again on the wheel balancing machine.
I would rather do the drums and wheels individually as the wheels can be rotated for wear and there is always the chance of a flat tyre along the way.
Balancing a wheel and brake drum as an assembly has its limitations as mentioned.
Regards,
Terry Cockerell

T cockerell

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  • mikespeed35
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28 Oct 2016 03:52 #31870 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
Be sure the brake drums are the problem before going to all this trouble. There are many other things that can cause vibration in the front end. I am speaking of cars in general, not being knowledgeable specifically on 810/12 Cords.
Cordially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • john mccall
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28 Oct 2016 02:49 #31869 by john mccall
Replied by john mccall on topic Re: Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums
See if you can find someone with an old fashion balancer where you jack up the wheel and let it down on the machine which spins the whole wheel, tire, hub and hubcap while everything is mounted on the car. Then add wheel weights accordingly. Someone who collects antique garage equipment might still have one. A local Stude guy nearby had one but it went in an auction when he died so I can't tell you who manufactured this type of balancer. Check the internet.
OR
If you can mount the hub on your guy's balancer, can you mount the hub with the wheel/tire attached? If you can, add required weights to the wheel to account for the combined imbalance and make sure you mount the wheel in the same position on the hub when everything is put back on the car.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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27 Oct 2016 02:42 #31865 by Terry Cockerell
Balancing Cord 810 812 Brake Drums was created by Terry Cockerell
With the wheels balanced I found that I had smooth steering up to 60 mph. Then vibration started to set in around 65 mph and above. I had been advised to get the brake drums balanced.
There are not many places where I live in Australia who can handle balancing the drums.
On a wheel balancing machine we found that one drum was out by 65 grams or about 2.7 ounces. Even the wheel balancing operator was surprised.
We added adhesive weights for the trial on the outside of the rim. These will be removed.
As the drums are composite with a cast iron rim and a steel flange I would assume we could only weld or bolt weights to the flange as long as they clear the wheel rim and brakes.

I would appreciate any comments or guidance as how to do this job properly.
I don't intend to drive the car much above 60 mph but where there is out of balance forces working I would rather eliminate them.
Thanks,
Terry Cockerell

T cockerell

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