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Shifting fun ............

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21 Sep 2016 06:18 #31755 by
Replied by on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Hey Terry,
Thanks for the picture.
I do get quick shifts while in pre select. Select gear, clutch in,clutch out,no problem.
Getting Cord to shift the same way in manual mode is what is bugging me.

Are you running a shortened trans cover? Nice setup.

Frank

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  • 810cord
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21 Sep 2016 04:16 #31754 by 810cord
Replied by 810cord on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Hey Terry, what's that nifty perforated panel all about, should I have one ?

1936 Cord 810
1927 Cadillac 314 Phaeton

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  • Terry Cockerell
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20 Sep 2016 20:55 #31753 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
My gear changes work sweetly using the pre=select system as it was originally designed.
Do Not go from any gear back to first as you can really do some damage to first gear.
You must be just about stopped with the wheels on their last movement before selecting first gear.
As previously mentioned I had fitted micro switches to the front of the box so that I would know when first or reverse has been engauged.
When depressing the clutch I always hold it for two to three seconds to allow time for the gear change to be made. No quick shifts at all, you will only do expensive damage.
Cheers,
Terry

T cockerell
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19 Aug 2016 06:27 #31559 by
Replied by on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
You could try playing with the clutch switch setting.
With the new switch I have found that in pre select you can gain some "shift time"by setting the clutch switch to close at clutch about half in.

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  • ilikescars
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18 Aug 2016 12:00 #31552 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
That is true: I found that if I hold the clutch in a little longer, it gives it a better chance to shift. Just wait for the slight "click", then release clutch. Fun car :)

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18 Aug 2016 06:21 #31551 by
Replied by on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Or maybe the extra time you have the clutch in while stomping on the gas gives the box some extra time to shift.

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  • ilikescars
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14 Aug 2016 19:51 #31529 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Makes sense! As I said, I was guessing. Thanks for setting me straight

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  • 1748 S
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14 Aug 2016 07:03 #31527 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: Shifting fun ............

mikespeed35 wrote: The "goose" decreases vacuum.
Cordially Mike

Vacuum happens when the throttle plates are closed. Say you are revved up to around 2800 rpm and you want to shift. You preselect the gear you want. Let off the throttle peddle. As the engine slows down the rpms you are creating the most vacuum you can make in said engine. It won't be 29 inches of mercury but it will be all it can possibly be. Then you press in the clutch and all the magic happens with the electrical switches and the vacuum solenoids.

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14 Aug 2016 03:29 #31526 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
The "goose" decreases vacuum.
Cordially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • ilikescars
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13 Aug 2016 22:27 #31524 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Still on shifting subject: I've been having fun driving around in the 812. Seems to shift better if I pre-select, depress clutch, "goose" the gas petal a little and then release clutch. Maybe that extra "goose" helps increase vacuum a little, I'm guessing. Also, the car seems to do better when down-shifting from third gear to second and finally to first. Doesn't like going directly to first gear from third or fourth.

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12 Aug 2016 08:45 #31513 by
Replied by on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Thanks for the pictures!
I've done a couple of tests. With the engine running,wheels off the floor, car in neutral,foot off the clutch.

Selector switch to second gear,
depress clutch, instant vacuum approx 7,5 psi.
Off clutch, instant atmospheric pressure.

Any other gear, same result.

Looks like the vacuum block is doing ok ?

Thanks for the pictures
Frank

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  • 1748 S
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11 Aug 2016 21:43 #31506 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
here's the solenoid vacuum valve block. If more pics are required please ask and I will make them.

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11 Aug 2016 14:24 #31500 by
Replied by on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Thanks, 20 inHg is about 9,8 psi, I measure about 7,5 psi, close enough probably.
I would appreciate a couple of pictures of the solenoid block.
Thanks
Frank

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  • 1748 S
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10 Aug 2016 22:12 #31496 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
I'm betting the vacuum we use is probably up around 20 inches of mercury. Reason I suspect this is we shift when the throttle plates are closed in the carb and that makes lots of vacuum for shifting. Some have said its too much so they fabricated "adjusters" we can install on the solenoid block. Then the shifts are easier on the trans.. So I'm told. If you have issues like you mentioned with those specific gears it might be time to replace the solenoid rubber seals. Its not a brain surgery job but it does involve removing the trans cover. then the vacuum hoses to the solenoid block. then remove the block and repair it on the bench. If you want I can show pics of how it comes apart and what the seals look like.

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10 Aug 2016 07:20 #31494 by
Replied by on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Thanks for all the reply's.
The woodruff key,cross shaft and front cover problem is a nice one!
All adjustments on switches are ok.
Problem does not seem to be electrical.

Does anyone know how much vacuum to expect.
Is 7.5 psi in the ball park?
Most vacuum problems I've read about mention to much vacuum, but no hard numbers.


Thanks

Frank

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  • Terry Cockerell
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08 Aug 2016 10:50 #31484 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
What you need to carry is called a "Clutch Stick". It is a bit of 1 1/2" by 3/4" timber ( or similar ) just long enough to fit under the edge of the dash and hold the clutch pedal on the floor. It is very useful in emergencies.
I have read it is ok to run the engine for short periods with the gear selector in neutral. It is not recommended to run the engine for beyond 10 to 15 minutes while in neutral. If necessary jack up one wheel and let it spin.

T cockerell

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  • 1748 S
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08 Aug 2016 04:50 #31483 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Sadly our trans was not well designed. Gears small and angles steep. Then we need the wheels turning so it can get lube to the important main shaft bushings and bearings. Whats with all that...
I agree we need to run the cars for the trans oil to circulate but... My trans NEVER had oil in it from sometime before 1961 when my father purchased the car as a basket case. I recall sometime in the late 1967 year dad and I with a friend reassembled the car to move it home from a business storage barn that was needed for other stuff. I'm not sure but I recall I was sitting in the car when it was towed home. It was somehow shifted into gear and I held my foot of the clutch depressed. the trip was about 12 miles. Remember no oil in the trans nor the differential either. Then in 1974 the car was trailered to my home shop garage. Engine was smei rebuilt so I got it rewired and started the engine. Ran it for maybe an hour ... I fixed the brakes and wife and I drove it around our block.. No mufflers but had the down pipes. Sure did rumble. I probably ran this engine for 4 or 5 hours over the next we years. Remember no oil in trans. One time I had the trans cover off and actually shifted thru all gears. Still not oil. Now forwards to 2014 when I discovered the wheels MUST turn for oil to lube the trans... Well still no oil in trans. I opened the trans expecting to see many burned bearings and bushings.. Nope.. Not a one. I did find some new gears and sadly 2nd 3rd synchro had no springs or balls in it. they were not in the bottom of the trans either. They NEVER got installed. So all this worry about no oil when the wheels are not moving.. I completely agree. I just can't explain why my trans was not burned up from no oil but several hours of spinning. Maybe it was because no pressure was placed on the bushings or gears or bearings.

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  • ilikescars
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08 Aug 2016 02:54 #31481 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Tom: Thanks for that bit of information on keeping the clutch engaged at idle. That's something I didn't know: I'll have to make a little note on the dash to remind myself

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  • Terry Cockerell
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07 Aug 2016 23:17 #31480 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
I had quite a bit of trouble getting my pre-select system to work properly. It took a lot of trial and error over many months. With the sheetmetal cover in place above the gearbox everything worked fine until it warmed up to operating temperature and then it would not select 2nd or 3rd. It would work perfectly with the sheetmetal cover or scoop removed. Something that was temperature sensitive was causing the problem.
Eventually I traced it down to the fit of the woodruff key in the "dog bone" on the selector cross shaft. Things could move slightly when it got warm enough. I was astounded that having the scoop fitted could make the difference. Just try checking one item at a time.
Occasionally I would still crunch first or reverse if I was not careful so I installed some micro switches at the front of the gearbox and lights under the dash to let the driver know when 1st or reverse had been selected correctly. Another guy out here fitted micro switches to all gears as well as lights in a little box under the dash, so that you know where you are all of the time.
Cheers,
Terry Cockerell
Australia

T cockerell

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06 Aug 2016 21:23 #31477 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Hi,

Leaving the transmission in neutral when parked in the garage also allows you more easily to push the car out to where you can work on it when the shift won't shift!

Remember--never leave the transmission in neutral and spinning while idling the engine, such as at a traffic light. That will burn up parts inside that require lubrication from the manual transmission pump which only pumps when the axles are turning. Keep the clutch on the floor when idling.

--Tom

PS: I recently got a freebie cap from Hagerty Insurance that is embroidered "Shift Happens." I have seriously considered adding additional embroidery: "Sometimes!"

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: mbcurl.me/YCSE

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  • 1748 S
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06 Aug 2016 14:49 #31476 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Yes. I have been reading about just this. Leave the trans in neutral when parked. Seems it makes it so much easier to shift the trans after starting from a long nap.

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06 Aug 2016 12:13 #31474 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
Speaking of shifting fun, is it best to leave the shift lever in neutral while parked for storage?

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05 Aug 2016 17:24 #31469 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: Shifting fun ............
I would check the clutch interlock switch adjustment. Its difficult to push the clutch in the same amount every time to shift so for me that is the only item that can be different every shift. See if the peddle arm has some slop in it. See if the pins in the arm ends are tight and not sloppy in the ends. Make sure the switch is tightly fastened to the bracket too.

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05 Aug 2016 12:15 #31468 by
Shifting fun ............ was created by
I am looking for some input.

Cord shifts perfectly in pre select mode.
Never misses a shift.

Getting Cord to shift in manual mode is a different story.
Shifting 4-3 3-4 will not work 3 out of 5 times.
Depressing the clutch twice will get me a perfect shift.

Cord's voltage is 13.8
New selector switch, switch cap,pencil, wiring harness,interlock switch,clutch switch.
All adjusted by the book.
Connections checked with the light box.

According to the light box, Cord's shifts are perfect.
(The Cord Transmission Simulator was /is a great help in understanding how the system works )


Vacuum cylinders rebuilt , no leakage.
Solenoids, rebuilt, I get a immediate vacuum drop to zero on letting up on the clutch, so no leakage there.
Tested vacuum, 7.5 psi on both sides of the main shift cylinder.

I'm stumped.I think I tested everything, but cannot see the reason for the difference in pre select and manual mode.

Thanks for your time
Frank

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