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where to find double white wall tires

  • Curt Schulze
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15 Nov 2016 22:14 #31914 by Curt Schulze
Replied by Curt Schulze on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
Well said Joel, well said !!

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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15 Nov 2016 22:05 #31913 by Joel
dryesandno, yes that is my personal opinion. I am not a judge, and I do not write the rules. I drive my cars and they would never score well in judging.
All else being equal, I think a car with correct parts should be judged better than a car with incorrect parts. That's only fair. Some people don't drive their cars. The safety of original tires is not a concern. Some people will search the world for years to find the correct/original parts. That should be rewarded. If a participant chooses to drive his car, and add safer or more readily available parts, I think that's wonderful. But that enjoyment comes with a price. Sometimes you need to choose which game you want to excel at. Win shows, win races, enjoy driving, etc. It's hard to do it all with one car. Best regards, Joel

Edit: typo

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
[img

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  • mikespeed35
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22 Nov 2015 05:54 #30635 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
The word is blackwall. I know it seems like swearing to some, but my Auburn and soon my L-29 and Marmon 16 will all have blackwalls. If you pay attention to national concourses you will see blackwall's are in. No deducts for them, they don't yellow and one cleaning a year, if you feel like it. Most period street scene photos show very few whitewalls.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • johnmereness
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15 Nov 2015 17:08 #30589 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
Did anyone call Diamond Back to see it they would apply a whitewall to the inside of a Firestone, Goodyear, or .... bias-ply tire ? Or call Coker or Kelsey to see if a run of double white bias-plys could be made again ?

JMM

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  • dryesandno
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09 Nov 2015 18:00 #30560 by dryesandno
Replied by dryesandno on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
this is getting interesting for sure. so joel. are you saying that the guy who keeps his old double white wall bias ply tires on the car should be judged in a superior fashion than the guy who for safety reasons decided to put on new tires, and because he could not find bias ply, he is running with radial? or because its safer, he is running with radial?

gee. i don't think we should be encouraging guys to run on old tires just so they don't lose points in judging. this tire issue is a little different than an engine, carburetor, or transmission part. we could lose some cars and some people here if we don't balance the safety aspects with the judging.

i have an email out to coker to see what they have too say about the matter. will let you guys know what they say......but i don't think they have the 6.50-16's in either bias ply or radial.

joel. i am assuming this is your personal opinion here right? does anyone know what the official club judging position is here? would be nice for members to know the official position before they shell out $1200 US for these tires.....lol.

i am sure this issue must have arisen on judging before? but of course....who would really know....since we can't get copies of the judging sheets right (unlike in the CCCA judging where we can).
when we are training the judges what too look for.....what do we tell them regarding tires and points? anyone have any idea?

if the correct tires are not currently made on the planet as opposed to being "100% extinct from the planet"......as seems to be the case right now. then i think its pretty harsh to dock points for the double white wall radials. and i don't think encouraging members to save their old "bias ply double whites" just for judging purposes is the right thing to do.....my two cents.

i side with 1748S and redbrick here......the cars are meant to be driven. so the radial tires should be acceptable. even more so if that is all that we can get right now......

but as always...i look forward to other members views and a fair resolution of the matter within the club.

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08 Nov 2015 19:22 #30555 by Joel
Sorry, I cannot help you in locating a set of the correct tires that you seek. But I do have an opinion on the judging points. It may be very very difficult and expensive to obtain certain correct parts. But it is not impossible. Therefore, when somebody does show up for judging with the correct parts, they should be rewarded for their efforts. Incorrect parts should always be docked points, in fairness to those who do go the extra mile to use correct parts. If any certain correct part truly does become 100% extinct from the planet, then there will be no cars receiving perfect scores.

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
[img

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  • johnmereness
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08 Nov 2015 18:38 #30554 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
Ask Diamond back if they can apply a whitewall to the backside of a Bias Ply tire (tell them no-guarantee needed).

Also DiamondBack is still in development of their "Auburn" radial which is a bias ply look radial and they may be able to make you a double whitewall when available.

And, at a few points in time doubles were available via special runs in bias plys (you may have to guarantee a minimum order).

JMM

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  • Red Brick
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07 Nov 2015 04:28 #30549 by Red Brick
Replied by Red Brick on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
I agree with 1748 S (Gary). If we truly believe that the Cord 810/812 is "Meant To Be Driven", then I'd advocate for radials being considered a safety feature.
Albert

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  • 1748 S
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07 Nov 2015 02:40 #30548 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
Glad to see a double white wall tire available. As for it being a radial tire in my opinion "should not" effect judging. Reason I feel this way is in many owners opinions these are a safety item. And hopefully they can be seen as just that. Seat belts or sealed beam head lights are not a points deduction from all I have been reading. Then we could include the 5 rib H10 Champion spark plugs seeing the beer bottle H10 are what came off the factory line. I'm in no way what I have posted is the way it should be when judging a car. I'm one person with one vote and not a decision maker. Just an interested member wanting correct information.

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  • dryesandno
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07 Nov 2015 00:55 #30547 by dryesandno
Replied by dryesandno on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
i passed the information about diamond back on to RM and here is what they have to say:

Hi Brent,

I didn’t look at any radial tires because they would be docked in judging for sure... they would drive the best however.

Yours originally are bias ply.

so we are still back to square one here.......

what is the clubs judging position on using these double white wall radials from diamondback?

if we cannot get the bias ply tires any more.....is the judging making an exception for these diamond back radials in their scoring, or are they docking points for them.....and if they are docking points....is it one or four?

i would really appreciate some imput here before spending a $1200 on these diamondback tires.

thanks so much guys.

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  • dryesandno
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07 Nov 2015 00:50 #30546 by dryesandno
Replied by dryesandno on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
curt and albert

thanks for the tip on diamond back. so i contacted them and here is what rusty from diamondback had to say:

Hey Brent,


We do have a Radial Equivalent to the 650-16 (225/75/16) in a dual white available. Price is 269$/tire + Freight, and I can get them to you in about 2 weeks or so. Give me a call!

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  • Red Brick
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06 Nov 2015 06:03 #30539 by Red Brick
Replied by Red Brick on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
The website of the Diamond Back Classic Radials is www.dbtires.com . I've been told that they take high quality radial tires and apply a custom white wall, so they should be able to apply a whitewall to both sides. I'd like to get a set for my car, but I will have to wait.

Also, do you intend to tour with your car or just drive it onto and off a car carrier? If you intend to tour with it, you might consider the heavy duty aluminum wheels that Don Wohlwend used to make. The wheels are still available, but Don recently sold his wheel design and company to a man in Canada whose name and contact information I can look up for you.

The advantages of the aluminum wheels are:

1. They weigh substantially less than the original steel wheels (almost 50% less);
2. The lighter weight reduces the car's unsprung weight, which improves its handling;
3. They are heavier duty than the original wheels; and
4. They have a bead built into them that lets you use a tubeless radial tire (tubeless are safer and less trouble-prone than tubed radials).

Finally, I know that many of those to whom Don sold his wheels use the Diamond Back Classic Radials.

I hope this helps.

Albert

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  • Curt Schulze
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05 Nov 2015 12:56 #30535 by Curt Schulze
Replied by Curt Schulze on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
Try Diamondback.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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  • dryesandno
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05 Nov 2015 05:13 #30534 by dryesandno
Replied by dryesandno on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
yes. i went through all those old posts and read them too, which is why i thought it might be a good time to renew this discussion. i have RM restorations work on a my cars because up here in canada they are close by. we need a set of tires for my phaeton and here is what they are telling me:

"They think Coker has some dual whites, but they are only available in the size 600-16

Tread Width: 4.63
Section Width: 6.26
Overall Diameter: 28.56
Rim Width: 4.00 - 4.50

The Cords originally used 650-16.
The size difference is
Tread Width: 5.10
Section Width: 7.00
Overall Diameter: 29.10
Rim Width: 4.50 - 5.00

The 600’s would work, but look a bit small and would be docked in judging, because of the small size" (RM's words)

So having heard this from RM, i was wondering.....how does this work for judging? Is RM right that if we use the double white coker tires with the slightly smaller size that we would be docked points in judging because our tires are the wrong size? Or alternatively if we use the correct size but only single whites will we also be docked?

Since the correct size double whites don't seem to be available, is the club making exceptions for this in the judging because the right tires are no longer available?

Another question is given the number of cords we have in the club, and the movement by the club in the past few years to try and have "correctness" in the restoration and judging of the cars, would it not be in the interest of the club and its members to get together and see if we can find someone to make these correct tires for us? Surely there are enough of us and our cars that some tire mfg could see its way to producing the correct tires for us?

just wondering how the rest of you guys feel about the issue. and perhaps what the judging teams and head judge have to say about this issue.

does anyone think it would be feasible to find someone to build us the correct tires...or i am just dreaming with that thought?

alternatively, perhaps the club could place an order for a large number of tires, and then sell the tires to members at a small profit? sort of like the rolls royce and bentley clubs do with their "spares" projects.......

as mentioned above....if those older double whites went for so much money, you would think one of the tire mfg's or the club could make economic sense of getting the tires we need made?

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  • 1748 S
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04 Nov 2015 17:34 #30531 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Re: where to find double white wall tires
I recall a posting a few years ago about this. I do not think the double white wall tire is available any longer and was long ago discontinued. A set of older still in the wrapper double whites was sold for an enormous price in that post I was reading in this forum. I also recall reading some posts in this forum that plain black wall tires did come off the line as factory tires too. I don't recall the brand. All this information I have posted here was from this forum too.

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  • dryesandno
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04 Nov 2015 04:29 #30527 by dryesandno
where to find double white wall tires was created by dryesandno
hi guys. wondering where everyone is buying their double white wall tires these days? what are the current options in double whites for the cord 810/812? what sizes are most of you running? what is working well for you? which make do you think looks the best on the cord 810/812? which makes and styles will pass judging these days without problems? can we run black walls? or is that taboo? anyone have a strong opinion on white vs black wall? what is the latest thinking in the club on this topic?

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