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Startix needs repair.
- Aris Loumidis
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It has been a year since my last post here and YES!, I am very happy to report that both the Gener-Rator and the Startix are finally working fine! Once the engine fires, the ammeter shoots right up indicating immediate charge, the Startix senses it and finally no more grinding noise from the starter kicking in!!!
What a relief!!!!!!!!! I cannot describe how good it feels after more than 20 years, to be able to start the car normally !!!!! It is honestly a new and long-awaited feeling!
The credit goes to Don Allen who got his Gener-Rator right! He send me a resistor that I wired-in there and this resolved the problem so that the 810 can come closer to the ?driver? I have always wanted it to be!
For ?originality?s? sake though, I also managed to find another Startix, as well as an original top-mount generator, both perfectly rebuilt, so that the Phaeton can rest in peace for the years to come .....................
Aris Loumidis
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- Red Fred
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Interesting reading here on the Startix issues. I have a rebuilt, stock generator that is charging, and a NOS Startix. However, the Startix is engaged when I depress the clutch pedal, even when the engine is running, and at high RPM.
Is it the ARM terminal on the stock voltage regulator that the "Gen" wire from the Startix is to be connected to? Can this problem be "adjusted" out of the Startix?
Although I have mostly original components on this car, I am not ashamed to use some up-dates. Therefore, I am all ears on the Gen-Narator mentioned, and also the wiring for the Startix as a Solenoid conversion. This is all that seems to be holding me up from hitting the streets! And we have a local ACD event here very SOON!
Many Thanks, RF
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- Aris Loumidis
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The more I was immersing myself in this ?fix? the more bad dreams I was having about the Gener-Nator conking out somewhere out in the Balkans or Italy ... or of my son trying to figure out what had I done to the car when no one will be around anymore ...... I had started drawing my own wiring diagrams etc etc .............. ...
On top of all this, I emailed Don Allen that his unit activates over 1300rpm, and got a reply that ?my brother in law?s solution is very cool? ..... so much for support and for ?fixes to fix other fixes?......
So to get the CORD rolling properly again, how hard are the original generators to find? I?m asking because I was I was dumb enough to send my own for this ?adaptation? ......
Aris Loumidis
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- E L
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I own my share of coffin noses and have had no trouble with the stock set-ups. No startix trouble and no GENERATOR trouble in the past 25 years to speak of. And yes I drive them ( Watt Adams ring in hand) every chance I get. Isn't part of the joy of owning one of these the challenge of keeping them stock and preserving there uniqueness.
By the way, I still run stock joints, copper brake lines and a 3/16 thrust washer and mechanical fuel pump.
I have given in to radial tires for high speed use and heavy suspension bolts.
Keep um stock
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- Greg Frownfelter
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alternator
I used a slightly smaller pulley and a regulator
with a lower threshold voltage [exciter current]
has worked fine
greg
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- Josh Malks
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A number of engineers to whom I have spoken told me that alternators work best with the negative ground that all modern cars have. The conversion was very simple. If I remember correctly the only component that had to be changed was the solid state vibrator that I had installed in the original Cord radio. Some wire-switching was needed at ammeter, coil and gas gauge I think, but light bulbs don't care. (I later installed a Pertronix ignition which DOES care -- they made a negative ground unit for me.)
I know there are folks driving with positive ground alternators who are satisfied. But my own experience tells me that a negative ground alternator works well all the time.
For what it's worth.
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- Aris Loumidis
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It has been too long since I had the pleasure of starting the car without the awful grinding noise, or having to revv-it up like crazy!!!!!
Meanwhile, now that I was finally able to start the car normally, I let it sit in idle, then slowly increased the rpm, to pinpoint when does the Gener-Nator gets excited and starts charging. I was very surprised to see this happen at 1.300 rpm !! so something is wrong there .... I now know what is happening, and for sure, the old-timer Startix is not at fault afterall !!!
I will contact Don Allen to see what has to be done, there is something going on up in there or in my wiring maybe.
The circuit is being refined and I plan to test it thouroughly in the future, will also post pictures and it's hook-up diagram.
Aris Loumidis
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- Aris Loumidis
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If i get nowhere I might opt for your suggestion to keep the startix just for it's main solenoid and use it with an appropriate ignition switch.
Aris Loumidis
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- Aris Loumidis
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Stan mentioned they have a small Kubota alternator in there, I wish it did not need a kick, so now I have someone locally trying to design a solid-state circuit to maybe resolve the problem ....
It is frustrating because on the one hand i want the car as original as possible, but on the other hand I want a dependable driver, so I am still fighting it. What I certainly dont want is a car that needs 'special treatment' from a 'connoisseur' to get going.....
Will post results...
Aris Loumidis
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- Josh Malks
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Does your Gener-nator have the "TC" regulator perched on top of the generator housing? If so, did you have them make the Startix terminal on the regulator active?
Most important, the pulley diameter (at the root) of the Gener-nator pulley must be no more than 2". An alternator has to turn faster than a generator so the original pulley will not do. If the pulley is too large your ammeter will not show charge at idle and will need a "kick". It really should not.
Incidentally, is your car still using the original positive ground? Alternators tend to prefer negative ground.
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- Joel
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I reccommend that you ask the genernator guy if you can do this to your genernator.
Good luck!
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- Aris Loumidis
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My Startix engages because there is no current coming into its GEN terminal, once the engine starts, so, for now the problem is located outside the Startix itself.
In place of the original Autolite generator I now have a Gener-Nator, and for those who are not familiar with it, it is really an alternator, ingeniously concealed inside the case of our original generator; it really looks almost 100% original and does a superb charging job.
That?s the good news; the bad news is that my Gener-Nator will not start charging, unless it is first revved up. It needs a quick ?kick?, actually over 1.000rpm, to get going. Once it gets charging, everything is fine, it won?t need the same ?kick? for the rest of the day, no matter how often I start the car.
Strange? Well, it was explained to me like this: Unlike generators that can immediately produce a charge when turned, alternators that don?t have magnets inside, need to self-generate their magnetic field before they can produce electricity. Once they do, they will keep this magnetic field for some time, but if left sitting, will eventually lose it.
Electrics is my down side and honestly, all this sounds Greek to me <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt="" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> , so does anyone make sense of it and more to the point, has anyone tried successfully a Gener-Nator with an original working Startix?
Aris Loumidis
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- Josh Malks
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The publisher tells me that the book will begin shipping on November 25. Not long now!
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- Tom_Parkinson
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Thanks for the gentle nudge in the right direction. I set up an automatic search in EBay for a Startix.
I am EAGERLY awaiting the arrival of The Complete Cord! Perhaps my car is in it in the background of some picture. Who knows?--There's no history known to me of my car before 1950. I always wondered whom it belonged to...
The book should be here any time now.
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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- Josh Malks
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Tom, no need to give up on a "starter solenoid" Startix. Broken Startixes (from different makes of cars are available on eBay from time to time. What is usually broken is the automatic part of the mechanism. If the main solenoid is working you can clean up the copper disk that functions as the main contacts and it will work fine as a solenoid and look MUCH better than a Ford unit. Just a thought.
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- Tom_Parkinson
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Or, heaven forbid, replace Startix with an old Ford starter solenoid as some of us have seen many times over the years.
Josh, I am sorry to report that the Old Lady is gonna hafta settle for a Ford starter soledoid...
--Tom
With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.
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- Aris Loumidis
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I can now see light at the end of the tunnel ! Some 20 years back when I started working on our Greek Phaeton, I could only call or fax the US! It was slow and costly and the information limited just to few contacts.... Nowdays, thanks to the web and our forum, we can share information and experiences within days and so help ourselves and our classics!
Aris Loumidis
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In addition to the emergency/parking brake, you can also use the hand throttle instead of the gas pedal.
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- Josh Malks
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I described what I do only because I don't want anyone who wants to drive his/her Cord to not do so for want of a working Startix. Or, heaven forbid, replace Startix with an old Ford starter solenoid as some of us have seen many times over the years.
CORDially,
Josh B. Malks
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- balinwire
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It still justified my joy on seeing the Cord Startix that in reality is a remote selonid that was generator switched. I can see where it would have been a wanted accessory in 1935 along with fingertip gearshifting.
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- Aris Loumidis
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Anyway, with the manual button and some manipulation on the cables, I can start and run the car.
I'm trying to locate if the trouble lies outside the unit itself, so can anyone tell me what should the voltage be on the GEN terminal when in idle?
Aris Loumidis
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- mikespeed35
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CORDially Mike
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It is a long story but maybe I could share an event that happened to me.
I was going west on La Cieniga near Sunset and got stopped in traffic in my standard shift 39 Chevy.
If you know the intersection it is very, very steep.
Of course I got trapped between two expensive cars.
One foot on the brake to keep from rolling backwards, cant let off.
Well I need the left foot to let out the clutch as I slip it into gear.
Let go of the brake a little so as not to slide back into a car in traffic.
Let the clutch out to go forward, both feet busy.
Oh-no, the engine stalls and all feet are busy and I need to step on the starter pedal to engage the engine and both feet are busy clutching and braking and I cant let go or back down the hill I go and where I stop??!
Well a little of desperate footwork and somehow I got it started by depressing the starter and jumping on the clutch, brake, throttle and somehow getting to the top of the hill still with an undamaged car in front and behind, I avoided that hill from then on out.
There were many ridicules? hills in the thirties unlike our flat highways of today.
Imagine my pleasant surprise to find the Startix under the hood. Only two feet needed on a hill! When stalled on a hill it tries to restart itself. Me happy and will never be without a working Startix.
When I was a kid I remember these bumpers getting locked and owners jumping up and down on them to separate the bumpers, Imagine that today, well you cant cause cars don?t have them, they got insurance. ha-ha <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
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- Josh Malks
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In driving my current Cord 810 Westchester 75,000 miles since 1984 I have never once had a Startix problem. The reason is simple -- I use Startix only as a starter solenoid. The wire to the GEN terminal is a dummy. The wire to the IGN terminal connects to a "starter actuating device".
Right now I use the keystart terminal on an auto-supply-store ignition switch. (Visually replaces the Cord ignition switch nicely. Even the chrome Cord nut fits.) In past versions I have retained the original ignition switch/armored cable and used a concealed starter button inside the left glove compartment. For a while I converted the cigar lighter by embedding a push-button switch in the base. Pushing in the cigar lighter actuated the Startix! (Sure surprised Stan Gilliland once when he rode with me.) The bottom line, any momentary switch with sufficient capacity will work.
I agree that it's not original. But since you can arrange it so no-one can tell visually, what price reliability? Do you use needle bearings instead of the original rocker arm rollers in your engine? Maybe modern rod bearings? Halogen bulbs? Richardson U-joints? And who is still running a Cord with the original cylinder heads?
If you just show your car or drive it only occasionally then maybe reliability should not be your concern. If you drive your car often and far, perhaps you should consider an alternative.
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- Aris Loumidis
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Aris Loumidis
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- ilikescars
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Mark
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My problem is the inadvertent cranking immediatelly after the engine starts and stays in idle. Once it?s revved-up properly, it stops doing it. I've tried the cranking adjustment screw, but sofar, nothing. I have rewired the ignition switch as it should be and I immediately go to the left position till the engine warms up, but I can?t drive like this, cause the gears won?t change. I ran a detour of the Generator-to-Startix wire through the car, and with a switch there I disable the unit so I am for the moment good. I dont want to bypass the unit, so need to find where the trouble is.
Here is a question: What voltage should I read on the GEN terminal when the engine is running at idle?
BTY, I just installed the Gen-Rator, which in every other respect is just superb, but still at idle, the Startix keeps grinding .....
Aris Loumidis
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- Barrie Sly
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A good starting point would be to look at pages S-15 to S-18 in Cord Shop manual.
Barrie Sly.
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Let us know whhat you did in the end and who was helpful, please. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt="" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->
The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
812 310 121 S
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I can't help you with the rebuild effort, but I do have a N.O.S. Startix unit in it's original box with instructions. It is a type D, 6 volt, with black wrinkle finish and is in perfect new condition. I think the correct startix for your Cord should be the cadmium plated unit, however. The price is $1,000 plus shipping from Evansville, IN.
Steve Stevens
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Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
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