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Startix needs repair.

  • Aris Loumidis
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09 Oct 2010 20:09 #18147 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
Hi all!
It has been a year since my last post here and YES!, I am very happy to report that both the Gener-Rator and the Startix are finally working fine! Once the engine fires, the ammeter shoots right up indicating immediate charge, the Startix senses it and finally no more grinding noise from the starter kicking in!!!
What a relief!!!!!!!!! I cannot describe how good it feels after more than 20 years, to be able to start the car normally !!!!! It is honestly a new and long-awaited feeling!
The credit goes to Don Allen who got his Gener-Rator right! He send me a resistor that I wired-in there and this resolved the problem so that the 810 can come closer to the ?driver? I have always wanted it to be!
For ?originality?s? sake though, I also managed to find another Startix, as well as an original top-mount generator, both perfectly rebuilt, so that the Phaeton can rest in peace for the years to come .....................

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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  • Red Fred
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24 May 2010 22:23 #16849 by Red Fred
Replied by Red Fred on topic Startix needs repair.
I may have answered my own question!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seems that my Startix wasn't grounded properly! I powdercoated it's mounting bracket. I just threw a test jumper on her for a ground, and no more clutch activated Startix while she's running!

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  • Red Fred
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24 May 2010 16:09 #16847 by Red Fred
Replied by Red Fred on topic Newby Startix problems
Hi All,
Interesting reading here on the Startix issues. I have a rebuilt, stock generator that is charging, and a NOS Startix. However, the Startix is engaged when I depress the clutch pedal, even when the engine is running, and at high RPM.
Is it the ARM terminal on the stock voltage regulator that the "Gen" wire from the Startix is to be connected to? Can this problem be "adjusted" out of the Startix?
Although I have mostly original components on this car, I am not ashamed to use some up-dates. Therefore, I am all ears on the Gen-Narator mentioned, and also the wiring for the Startix as a Solenoid conversion. This is all that seems to be holding me up from hitting the streets! And we have a local ACD event here very SOON!
Many Thanks, RF
<a href="mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]

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  • Aris Loumidis
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05 Dec 2009 14:03 #15251 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
I can only say THANKS guys, , you did open my eyes!!!!!
The more I was immersing myself in this ?fix? the more bad dreams I was having about the Gener-Nator conking out somewhere out in the Balkans or Italy ... or of my son trying to figure out what had I done to the car when no one will be around anymore ...... I had started drawing my own wiring diagrams etc etc .............. ...
On top of all this, I emailed Don Allen that his unit activates over 1300rpm, and got a reply that ?my brother in law?s solution is very cool? ..... so much for support and for ?fixes to fix other fixes?......
So to get the CORD rolling properly again, how hard are the original generators to find? I?m asking because I was I was dumb enough to send my own for this ?adaptation? ......

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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  • Jonathan Richards
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05 Dec 2009 05:11 #15243 by Jonathan Richards
Replied by Jonathan Richards on topic KEEPING THEM STOCK
I TOO STAND IN AWE OF THE SUCCINCT STATEMENT OF E. L. ( AKA George Arakelian ) . Count on George to cut through the BS and get right to the point. Drive'm , keep'm as stock as you can but drive'm. That is what they were designed and built for. Roll On ACDs . Blabber Mouth Richards in Iowa aka <a href="mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url]

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  • Josh Malks
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05 Dec 2009 03:35 #15240 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
I stand in awe.

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  • E L
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05 Dec 2009 01:23 #15238 by E L
Replied by E L on topic Startix needs repair.
I know this response is going to cause a lot of discussion but I can't help but to add to it after reading 3 pages of fixes.
I own my share of coffin noses and have had no trouble with the stock set-ups. No startix trouble and no GENERATOR trouble in the past 25 years to speak of. And yes I drive them ( Watt Adams ring in hand) every chance I get. Isn't part of the joy of owning one of these the challenge of keeping them stock and preserving there uniqueness.
By the way, I still run stock joints, copper brake lines and a 3/16 thrust washer and mechanical fuel pump.
I have given in to radial tires for high speed use and heavy suspension bolts.
Keep um stock

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  • Greg Frownfelter
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04 Dec 2009 16:02 #15232 by Greg Frownfelter
Replied by Greg Frownfelter on topic Startix needs repair.
on my Auburn I use a 6volt positive ground
alternator
I used a slightly smaller pulley and a regulator
with a lower threshold voltage [exciter current]
has worked fine
greg

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  • Josh Malks
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04 Dec 2009 13:33 #15231 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
I have had a 6 volt alternator on my Cord for over fifteen years. The first twelve years the unit was a 6 volt job built into a modern alternator case by Fifth Avenue Auto Parts. It worked splendidly, but I always thought the aluminum unit sitting on top of the engine looked silly. Three years ago I bought a Gener-nator, with the same fine results. Both alternators began charging as soon as the engine started, and produced positive amperage at idle. No kicking, instant exciting. The secret? Negative ground.

A number of engineers to whom I have spoken told me that alternators work best with the negative ground that all modern cars have. The conversion was very simple. If I remember correctly the only component that had to be changed was the solid state vibrator that I had installed in the original Cord radio. Some wire-switching was needed at ammeter, coil and gas gauge I think, but light bulbs don't care. (I later installed a Pertronix ignition which DOES care -- they made a negative ground unit for me.)

I know there are folks driving with positive ground alternators who are satisfied. But my own experience tells me that a negative ground alternator works well all the time.

For what it's worth.

Josh B. Malks
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  • Aris Loumidis
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04 Dec 2009 09:50 #15230 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
OK, here is the latest report: With some Greek ingenuity I tested yesterday a specially made printed electronic circuit, that ?senses? if there is no current coming to the GEN terminal on the Startix. If this is the case, then the circuit supplies a 'substitute' current, so that the Startix does not think the engine has stalled and tries to restart. Once this is achieved, then the circuit keeps monitoring what the Gener-Nator does, and when it gets excited and supplies it?s own current to that terminal, the circuit 'senses' it and automatically shuts itself off. I am really proud of my brother in law who made it for me, it is simple, clever and IT WORKS ! <!-- s:idea: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_idea.gif" alt=":idea:" title="Idea" /><!-- s:idea: -->
It has been too long since I had the pleasure of starting the car without the awful grinding noise, or having to revv-it up like crazy!!!!!
Meanwhile, now that I was finally able to start the car normally, I let it sit in idle, then slowly increased the rpm, to pinpoint when does the Gener-Nator gets excited and starts charging. I was very surprised to see this happen at 1.300 rpm !! so something is wrong there .... I now know what is happening, and for sure, the old-timer Startix is not at fault afterall !!!
I will contact Don Allen to see what has to be done, there is something going on up in there or in my wiring maybe.
The circuit is being refined and I plan to test it thouroughly in the future, will also post pictures and it's hook-up diagram.
:D :D :D

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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26 Nov 2009 03:47 #15139 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
Don confirmed that initially the GenerNator has no juice on it's Sartix terminal and to try with the idle at 700rpm. I went up to 800rpm, still no good. He aslo advised a 'tap' on the accelerator to get it going. A Lycoming idling as high is unacceptable to me and revving-up an engine that has sat for ages is even worse, so for now i snap the switch to the left position till the darn thing gets 'excited'.
If i get nowhere I might opt for your suggestion to keep the startix just for it's main solenoid and use it with an appropriate ignition switch.

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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25 Nov 2009 21:49 #15137 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
Did you contact Don Allen about the problem?

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  • Aris Loumidis
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25 Nov 2009 19:01 #15136 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
Yes Josh, unless the Gener-Nator gets 'Kicked' the Startix terminal on the top mounted 'dummy' regulator has no juice whatsoever; the pulley is the smallest possible, and the car has still the original positive ground.
Stan mentioned they have a small Kubota alternator in there, I wish it did not need a kick, so now I have someone locally trying to design a solid-state circuit to maybe resolve the problem ....
It is frustrating because on the one hand i want the car as original as possible, but on the other hand I want a dependable driver, so I am still fighting it. What I certainly dont want is a car that needs 'special treatment' from a 'connoisseur' to get going.....
Will post results...

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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24 Nov 2009 16:51 #15135 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
Aris, Henry Portz agrees that the problem is most likely the generator, not Startix.

Does your Gener-nator have the "TC" regulator perched on top of the generator housing? If so, did you have them make the Startix terminal on the regulator active?

Most important, the pulley diameter (at the root) of the Gener-nator pulley must be no more than 2". An alternator has to turn faster than a generator so the original pulley will not do. If the pulley is too large your ammeter will not show charge at idle and will need a "kick". It really should not.

Incidentally, is your car still using the original positive ground? Alternators tend to prefer negative ground.

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16 Nov 2009 22:46 #15059 by Joel
Replied by Joel on topic Startix needs repair.
Sounds like the genernator is a "self exciting" alternator. I had a similar problem when I put a self exiting alternator on an old tractor. The tractor motor did not rev high enuff to excite the alternator. The solution was to run 12 volts from the ignition switch to small terminal in the alternator that was not being used. This current entering the alternator excited it as soon as the key was turned on.
I reccommend that you ask the genernator guy if you can do this to your genernator.

Good luck! :D

Joel Nystrom
1929 Duesenberg Model J Murphy Convertible Coupe
[img

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  • Aris Loumidis
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16 Nov 2009 22:17 #15058 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
OK, here is the update.
My Startix engages because there is no current coming into its GEN terminal, once the engine starts, so, for now the problem is located outside the Startix itself.
In place of the original Autolite generator I now have a Gener-Nator, and for those who are not familiar with it, it is really an alternator, ingeniously concealed inside the case of our original generator; it really looks almost 100% original and does a superb charging job.
That?s the good news; the bad news is that my Gener-Nator will not start charging, unless it is first revved up. It needs a quick ?kick?, actually over 1.000rpm, to get going. Once it gets charging, everything is fine, it won?t need the same ?kick? for the rest of the day, no matter how often I start the car.
Strange? Well, it was explained to me like this: Unlike generators that can immediately produce a charge when turned, alternators that don?t have magnets inside, need to self-generate their magnetic field before they can produce electricity. Once they do, they will keep this magnetic field for some time, but if left sitting, will eventually lose it.
Electrics is my down side and honestly, all this sounds Greek to me <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> , so does anyone make sense of it and more to the point, has anyone tried successfully a Gener-Nator with an original working Startix?

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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  • Josh Malks
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14 Nov 2009 18:43 #15040 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
Cord Complete includes some shots of Cords coming down the assembly line. Perhaps one of them is yours. Or mine.

The publisher tells me that the book will begin shipping on November 25. Not long now!

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  • Tom_Parkinson
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14 Nov 2009 17:43 #15039 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Startix needs repair.
Hi Josh,

Thanks for the gentle nudge in the right direction. I set up an automatic search in EBay for a Startix.

I am EAGERLY awaiting the arrival of The Complete Cord! Perhaps my car is in it in the background of some picture. Who knows?--There's no history known to me of my car before 1950. I always wondered whom it belonged to...

The book should be here any time now. :D

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

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  • Josh Malks
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14 Nov 2009 02:15 #15029 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
Balin', there's a much better color rendering of the Cord shift schematic on my personal site CordNet. Go to www.automaven.com , click on "Technical", then on "Gearshift Wiring" then on the thumbnail of the schematic. (It's a PDF so you can print it out.)

Tom, no need to give up on a "starter solenoid" Startix. Broken Startixes (from different makes of cars are available on eBay from time to time. What is usually broken is the automatic part of the mechanism. If the main solenoid is working you can clean up the copper disk that functions as the main contacts and it will work fine as a solenoid and look MUCH better than a Ford unit. Just a thought.

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14 Nov 2009 00:02 #15027 by Tom_Parkinson
Replied by Tom_Parkinson on topic Startix needs repair.

Or, heaven forbid, replace Startix with an old Ford starter solenoid as some of us have seen many times over the years.


Josh, I am sorry to report that the Old Lady is gonna hafta settle for a Ford starter soledoid... :(

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

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  • balinwire
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13 Nov 2009 23:53 #15026 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic Startix needs repair.
These Startix diagrams remind me of these Cord shifter diagrams. For your enjoyment, the second scan is a real original pencil drawing marked, redrawn 10/56.


What's the difference between a businessman and a warm dog?
The businessman wears a suit; the dog just pants. :)

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13 Nov 2009 15:00 #15015 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
Eureka!

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  • Aris Loumidis
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12 Nov 2009 21:12 #15003 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
Good news for all of us ! Thanks to Mark?s post, I contacted Curt Shulze and he does work on the Startix units! He can supply rebuilt ones at $325 exchange, with new cad plating, net tag, restored internally and bench tested! In case my Gener-Nator does not provide enough voltage at idle, he can supply a modified unit to overcome the problem somehow. With instructions he sent me to test my setup, I now have work to do and will of course post my findings.

I can now see light at the end of the tunnel ! Some 20 years back when I started working on our Greek Phaeton, I could only call or fax the US! It was slow and costly and the information limited just to few contacts.... Nowdays, thanks to the web and our forum, we can share information and experiences within days and so help ourselves and our classics!

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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  • auburn653
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12 Nov 2009 00:04 #14988 by auburn653
Replied by auburn653 on topic Startix needs repair.
I have had issues with the large copper washer inside the startix and have had to file it down/clean up. After cleaning, startix worked as expected... with exception that on the Auburn, you can use startix to crank engine, then turn ignition to on position, bypassing startix.

In addition to the emergency/parking brake, you can also use the hand throttle instead of the gas pedal.

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  • Josh Malks
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11 Nov 2009 20:33 #14985 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
I don't want anyone to think that I don't love Startixes. I have two NOS ones on my shelf -- one 6v and one 12v. I think that their use of totally computerless technology to do their job is highly praiseworthy and I enjoy following the path taken by the current as the several solenoids open and close.

I described what I do only because I don't want anyone who wants to drive his/her Cord to not do so for want of a working Startix. Or, heaven forbid, replace Startix with an old Ford starter solenoid as some of us have seen many times over the years.

CORDially,

Josh B. Malks
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11 Nov 2009 19:50 #14984 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic Startix needs repair.
Hi Aris, maybe these will help, maybe the genernator puts out more output at idle than the original field coil generator, small adjustment, stepdown resistor?



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11 Nov 2009 17:02 #14983 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
Aris, do you have all the Eclipse (Bendix) bulletins on Startix operation and maintenance? I can fax them to you if you don't.

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11 Nov 2009 13:32 #14979 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic Emergency brake lever
Thats right, now I remember, 40 years has dimmed my memory except for the fright, there was no parking brake lever bolted to the trans, a Studebaker overdrive swap was in the in the car and the hillholder was disabled.
It still justified my joy on seeing the Cord Startix that in reality is a remote selonid that was generator switched. I can see where it would have been a wanted accessory in 1935 along with fingertip gearshifting.

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  • Aris Loumidis
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11 Nov 2009 12:33 #14977 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
If I manage to get mine working, I will stay with it as long as I can; I read in another post about the pleasure of having and demonstrating one more 1930's 'extra' our cars have.
Anyway, with the manual button and some manipulation on the cables, I can start and run the car.
I'm trying to locate if the trouble lies outside the unit itself, so can anyone tell me what should the voltage be on the GEN terminal when in idle?

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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11 Nov 2009 04:45 #14975 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
Mike's "hill holder" works well on an 810 too. Except you do it leaning over so you can hold and squeeze the brake handle while using two feet on the gas and clutch.

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  • mikespeed35
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11 Nov 2009 03:57 #14973 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Startix needs repair.
I have a special hill brake on my L-29 that I use in those situations, I call it a emergency brake. Two feet for gas and clutch.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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11 Nov 2009 03:14 #14972 by balinwire
Replied by balinwire on topic harrowing experience
The Startix was one of the accessories I most liked on the Cord.
It is a long story but maybe I could share an event that happened to me.
I was going west on La Cieniga near Sunset and got stopped in traffic in my standard shift 39 Chevy.
If you know the intersection it is very, very steep.
Of course I got trapped between two expensive cars.
One foot on the brake to keep from rolling backwards, cant let off.
Well I need the left foot to let out the clutch as I slip it into gear.
Let go of the brake a little so as not to slide back into a car in traffic.
Let the clutch out to go forward, both feet busy.
Oh-no, the engine stalls and all feet are busy and I need to step on the starter pedal to engage the engine and both feet are busy clutching and braking and I cant let go or back down the hill I go and where I stop??!
Well a little of desperate footwork and somehow I got it started by depressing the starter and jumping on the clutch, brake, throttle and somehow getting to the top of the hill still with an undamaged car in front and behind, I avoided that hill from then on out.
There were many ridicules? hills in the thirties unlike our flat highways of today.
Imagine my pleasant surprise to find the Startix under the hood. Only two feet needed on a hill! When stalled on a hill it tries to restart itself. Me happy and will never be without a working Startix.
When I was a kid I remember these bumpers getting locked and owners jumping up and down on them to separate the bumpers, Imagine that today, well you cant cause cars don?t have them, they got insurance. ha-ha <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

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  • Josh Malks
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11 Nov 2009 00:10 #14967 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic Startix needs repair.
Here's something to argue about&#058;

In driving my current Cord 810 Westchester 75,000 miles since 1984 I have never once had a Startix problem. The reason is simple -- I use Startix only as a starter solenoid. The wire to the GEN terminal is a dummy. The wire to the IGN terminal connects to a "starter actuating device".

Right now I use the keystart terminal on an auto-supply-store ignition switch. (Visually replaces the Cord ignition switch nicely. Even the chrome Cord nut fits.) In past versions I have retained the original ignition switch/armored cable and used a concealed starter button inside the left glove compartment. For a while I converted the cigar lighter by embedding a push-button switch in the base. Pushing in the cigar lighter actuated the Startix! (Sure surprised Stan Gilliland once when he rode with me.) The bottom line, any momentary switch with sufficient capacity will work.

I agree that it's not original. But since you can arrange it so no-one can tell visually, what price reliability? Do you use needle bearings instead of the original rocker arm rollers in your engine? Maybe modern rod bearings? Halogen bulbs? Richardson U-joints? And who is still running a Cord with the original cylinder heads?

If you just show your car or drive it only occasionally then maybe reliability should not be your concern. If you drive your car often and far, perhaps you should consider an alternative.

Josh B. Malks
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10 Nov 2009 15:20 #14959 by sds1861
Replied by sds1861 on topic Startix needs repair.
Guys:
Here are a couple of photos showing the N.O.S. Startix unit. This would be the correct unit for a 1932-33 Auburn. One of the elusive spinner cap wrenches is also in the photos.
Steve Stevens[i mg][/i mg]

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  • Aris Loumidis
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10 Nov 2009 05:24 #14952 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
That's the best news Mark, thanks!

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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  • ilikescars
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10 Nov 2009 00:22 #14948 by ilikescars
Replied by ilikescars on topic Startix needs repair.
Curt Schulze rebuilds those units and cad plates them, as well. I just exchanged my old one for one of his rebuilt Startix. Excellent.

Mark

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09 Nov 2009 21:12 #14947 by Aris Loumidis
Replied by Aris Loumidis on topic Startix needs repair.
Thanks guys! I?m waiting to hear from Stan, meanwhile I am amazed you found a NOS unit Steve, I would bet they were extinct ! And thanks for the tip Barrie, the info in the Shop Manual is way more detailed than the Tech Service Data from th Eclipse Machine company I was using from the 1987 #4. The 1997#5 I don?t have, if someone can email or post it, i would appreciate it.
My problem is the inadvertent cranking immediatelly after the engine starts and stays in idle. Once it?s revved-up properly, it stops doing it. I've tried the cranking adjustment screw, but sofar, nothing. I have rewired the ignition switch as it should be and I immediately go to the left position till the engine warms up, but I can?t drive like this, cause the gears won?t change. I ran a detour of the Generator-to-Startix wire through the car, and with a switch there I disable the unit so I am for the moment good. I dont want to bypass the unit, so need to find where the trouble is.
Here is a question: What voltage should I read on the GEN terminal when the engine is running at idle?
BTY, I just installed the Gen-Rator, which in every other respect is just superb, but still at idle, the Startix keeps grinding .....

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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  • Barrie Sly
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09 Nov 2009 17:53 #14940 by Barrie Sly
Replied by Barrie Sly on topic startix needs reply
Hi Aris,
A good starting point would be to look at pages S-15 to S-18 in Cord Shop manual.
Barrie Sly.

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  • Tom Georgeson
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09 Nov 2009 17:53 #14939 by Tom Georgeson
Replied by Tom Georgeson on topic startix
An article in the Newsletter of 1997 issue #5 had information on this item. Good luck as you will need it.

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09 Nov 2009 14:02 #14935 by oldbanger71
Replied by oldbanger71 on topic Startix needs repair.
i'm not sure, but think Stan from Auburn-Cord-parts might be able to help for overhhoul, parts and instrucktion.
Let us know whhat you did in the end and who was helpful, please. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

The more i know, the more i realize that i don't know enough.
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09 Nov 2009 13:39 #14934 by sds1861
Replied by sds1861 on topic Startix needs repair.
Hello Aris:
I can't help you with the rebuild effort, but I do have a N.O.S. Startix unit in it's original box with instructions. It is a type D, 6 volt, with black wrinkle finish and is in perfect new condition. I think the correct startix for your Cord should be the cadmium plated unit, however. The price is $1,000 plus shipping from Evansville, IN.
Steve Stevens

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09 Nov 2009 09:25 #14933 by Aris Loumidis
Startix needs repair. was created by Aris Loumidis
Hi all, I want to overhaul my ailing Startix, where can I find instructions how to bench-test and calibrate it?s components? Also, anyone knows of a parts source? Thanks!

Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton

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