engine tempature reductions

Nothing bests the authenticity of refilling the cooling system with genuine Indiana water every few years to take advantage of the OEM aquifer, and while there also refill the air in the tires if there's been a change so that they also contain genuine local sycamore-scented air. Good enough reason to revisit the source, best done around Labor Day weekend.What was the original factory fill coolant in these cars, alcohol?

The Cord never employed a honeycomb radiator. 1936 and early 1937s used the Jamestown core, which most closely resembled the core design used in auto heaters. Very efficient when clean, but the narrow passages clogged quickly with silt. (And of course all testing was done with new, clean radiators.)

Late 1937s used a Modine fin-and-tube core, not unlike the cores of today.

Quote from the book,? Development of Aircraft Engines and Fuels?. 1950 by SCHLAIFER. PAGE 232.

Probably the worst of the many difficulties being experienced with water-cooled engines in 1929 was the tendency to lose all their coolant and thus become completely disabled when the average water temperature was still well below the boiling point. This difficulty was usually due to the design of the ?header? or water-expansion tank and the way in which it was installed. When local boiling occurred in the cylinder jackets, the steam thus generated usually blew the water out thru the vent in the header tank, emptied the cooling system, and thus disabled the engine.

Also in this same chapter are several pages devoted to the fact that Harrison type honeycomb radiators are much less efficient than the Secondary surface type radiators. Harrison invented the Honeycomb radiator around 1910 I believe. Sold out to G.M.C. a little later, Harrison Radiator Division (HRD). Honeycomb type radiators were dumped in many cars before WW-2 it is odd that Cord still used them in 1936-37. It would be interesting to know just what type of radiators Ford and Chrysler used in 1937.

I believe that what the writer was saying in 1950 about the old honeycomb radiators was that they were just not as efficient as the straight tube radiators.
I am also doing a search into antfreeze and did Cord furnish the cars with or without Prestone installed?

M.L. Anderson

Would the mineral content of water from the State of Indiana, home place of the Auburn motorcar company, have anything to due with the 810-12’s ability to conduct heat to the atmosphere via copper radiant tubing heat radiators?

If so, when an auto is relocated, and uses local water and will it then have a cooling problem? I would have to deduce this is an inherent property of Hoosier water to rapidly transmit heat. Should this be a consideration when choosing water? Should I take a couple of jugs to fill next time I am in the state?

Water from the west coast or the south may vary in the amount of BTU’s they can conduct thru the surrounding atmosphere. This symptom of overheating may be corrected by an adequate dose of pure Indiana water.

We laugh about these cars, but consider a world where no examples of the design existed. One would have to maintain, it is a wonder feeling to see these cars in real life. To view the body panels and see the running vehicle is a wonderful experience.

I am glad so many Cords survived in a polystyrene world. Lets hope there is at least there is one survivor in a thousand years, to awe viewers, kind of like when one sees King Tuts mask for the first time after being in darkness and exposed to the light.

This is truly timeless design. One that we can feel worthy of saving. Now back to the Egg Nog.

Originally, motorists drove cars without heaters or side windows, making winter driving very unpleasant. In addition, it was extremely difficult to start a car in cold weather. The eventual development of car heaters and side windows, and the improvement of engines and lubricants led to more winter driving and the requirement of antifreeze/coolant. Many compounds were used with water, such as honey, sugar, molasses and, the most popular, methyl alcohol. Despite good cooling ability, alcohol had the significant drawbacks of boilaway, odor and flammability. Motorists were perpetually uncertain about their freezing protection.


The antifreeze/coolant business, as we know it today, began with the marketing of "Prestone" brand ethylene glycol antifreeze in 1927. It was pure ethylene glycol in cans, with published charts showing protection afforded by specific quantities. It would not boilaway or burn, and was comparatively odorless, offering a distinct advantage to some of the substances used previously.


In 1930, Prestone developed and marketed the first inhibitor to further protect the cooling system and retard rust formation.


In the early 60s, all three U.S. car companies - Ford Motor Company, General Motors and Chrysler - began installing a 50% water and 50% ethylene glycol antifreeze solution in their new cars, which led to the emergence of antifreeze/coolant as a year-round functional fluid - just as important as engine oil or automatic transmission fluid.


In 1972, the product was reformulated to incorporate the unique, patented silicone-silicate copolymer which greatly enhanced its inhibitor effectiveness, particularly for aluminum cooling system components.

The year 1977 marked the introduction of Prestone® Super Flush formulated to remove rust and scale from radiators. Very shortly after Super Flush became number one in the flush market, Prestone® Super Radiator Sealer, Super Radiator Cleaner and Super Radiator Anti-Rust were introduced. These four products make up one of the best cooling system additive product groups on the market today.


In 1981, Prestone® antifreeze/coolant was again reformulated to provide even better corrosion protection for the increasing number of aluminum cooling system components used in cars.
More on Prestone;
The Prestone® Brand Celebrates 75 Years


LAS VEGAS, November 5, 2002 ? Prestone Products, the manufacturer of North America?s number one branded antifreeze, is celebrating its 75th Anniversary with various appreciation events for its employees across the country. Prestone has more than 250 full time employees in North America that contribute toward the manufacturing, marketing and sales of its antifreeze and car care products.

With manufacturing and marketing locations in Alsip, Illinois; Freehold, New Jersey; Torrance, California; Danbury, Connecticut; and Cuautitlan, Mexico, Prestone Products employs efficient, high-speed practices. They utilize state-of-the-art process control and automated inspection equipment to ensure that products are made on time and meet rigorous internal and customer requirements. Three of the manufacturing facilities are totally integrated sites, handling everything from blending the raw materials and blow molding bottles to filling, packaging and distribution.

Each manufacturing facility utilizes Six Sigma black belts, green belts and lean experts who are trained and certified in the art of continuous quality improvement. Direct to customer shipments have increased to more than 60 percent since 1998. Production capacity and flexibility has improved two-fold over the last few years. The plants combined have also earned a number of quality certifications including ISO 14001 and ISO/QS 9000 certification, Ford Motor Company?s Q1 Approval, Shell?s QPAP Award and the Toyota Pinnacle Award.

The Prestone brand was established in 1927 and has survived and thrived through major eras, from the Depression and World War II to the introduction of the World Wide Web. The brand name is not only representative of quality and reputation, but also of history and culture in the automotive world.

1927-40
In 1927, the National Carbon Company began marketing Prestone® Antifreeze in cans, with published charts showing protection levels. The original price of antifreeze was $5.00 per gallon, not much different than the cost of the same size jug of Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant today. Other manufacturers simply offered ethyl alcohol products, which provided good cooling ability, but had severe drawbacks. It boiled away, had an extremely potent odor and was flammable.

In 1931, a rust inhibitor was added to the formula and after only two years of sales, the product was guaranteed to work. By 1940, automotive distributors became the dominant wholesale distribution channel for Prestone Antifreeze. In addition to the millions of dollars spent on advertising, these dealers helped build the business and turned a profit extremely quickly. Soon, high volume sales and streamlines in the production process led to a decrease in the price of Prestone Antifreeze ? to about $2.65 per gallon by 1939.

Although competition began entering the market in this era, they were primarily alcohol packagers and oil company brands. Any standard literature on cooling system maintenance continued to be provided by the Prestone engineering team.

1941-50
Entering the 1940s, the country was faced with war. Vehicle and consumer goods sales were diminishing and very small quantities of Prestone were available to the public. Most glycol was needed for the war, so few antifreeze orders were filled.

During the war, Prestone provided technical service and advice to the United States Armed Forces. They assisted in the choice of antifreeze formulas, prepared technical manuals on cooling system construction, maintenance and service, and also participated in the Armed Forces schools for automotive mechanics. Heavy demand on all consumer goods hit at the war?s end in 1946 and Prestone was back on the map, but the shortage of glycol-based antifreeze lasted until almost 1951. This was caused by a sharp increase in the number of registered vehicles on the road that required a glycol-based antifreeze.

In 1948, a new, improved formula that drastically increased rust and corrosion inhibitor life was introduced. This was the foundation for the formula found in Prestone today.

1951-64
It was a test of faith for the brand during 1951 through 1964. Because World War II and the Korean War left heavy demands and product shortages, overcapacity hit in the early ?50s and left pressure on ethylene glycol-based antifreeze prices. Prestone branded antifreeze was one of only two ethylene glycol antifreeze products on the market during this time. With the onset of private branded products becoming its largest competitor, Prestone was marketed through major oil company channels. In 1961, Prestone Long Life Coolant was offered as a competitor to some of the recently marketed year-round coolants. It was guaranteed to last 30,000 miles or two years. Prestone products were fair-traded in states with effective laws until 1962.

Then, a major occurrence took place in the early ?60s ? discount retail outlets developed across the country and flourished by selling various national brand merchandise at lower prices. Prestone branded antifreeze was number one in demand. Discount stores were able to secure a supply by working with automotive wholesalers or via oil company jobbers. As a result, more than half of all car owners were purchasing antifreeze over the counter and installing it themselves by 1963.

As for the automakers, Ford Motor Company, General Motors and Chrysler began installing a 50 percent water and 50 percent ethylene glycol antifreeze solution into their new vehicles, which led to the emergence of antifreeze as a year-round functional fluid ? suddenly making it equally important as engine oil or automatic transmission fluid.

1965-75
The Prestone Cooling System Flusher and Antifreeze Installer (later called the Prestone Flush ?N Fill machine) was introduced in 1965. It revolutionized cooling system service by providing the dealer with a fast, easy way to reverse flush the system and refill it with fresh antifreeze. A hydraulic pressure tester was added in 1970, and a Prestone Flush ?N Fill kit for the do-it-yourselfer was also introduced.

The year 1972 marked a significant turning point in the history of Prestone. Its antifreeze was reformulated to incorporate the unique, patented silicone-silicate copolymer, which greatly enhanced inhibitor effectiveness, particularly for aluminum cooling system components. The newly reformulated Prestone was also ideally suited to protect engines from the increased operating temperatures created by higher-opening thermostats, exhaust emission controls, trailer hauling, air conditioning and other power options.

1976-90
In 1977, Prestone introduced its Super Flush product, creating a major change in the cooling system additive market. In one year, it became the number one seller in the radiator flush market. Shortly following its introduction, three more radiator cleaning products were introduced under the Prestone name.

During the 1980s, the Big Three ? Ford, General Motors and Chrysler ? used Prestone Antifreeze as a base line formula for aluminum engine development and testing. It was again reformulated in 1981 to provide better corrosion protection for the increasing number of aluminum cooling system components being installed in new cars.

1991-Today
In 1994, Prestone introduced many new products in the antifreeze and car care categories including Prestone LowTox® Antifreeze/Coolant, Prestone® Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze/ Coolant and Prestone® RV Antifreeze. Between 1994 and 1996, 23 new Prestone products were introduced, including the popular Prestone® Jump It!® portable jump starter and power source. The mid to late ?90s saw Prestone enter new categories and grow its market presence, offering various consumer friendly car care products like Prestone® Interior Cleaner, Prestone® Bug Wash® Concentrate, a full fuel additive line and more. In 2001, the brand received GM?s official DEX-COOL® stamp of approval for its extended life antifreeze and became a promotional partner of the NFL. In 2002, two new products hit the shelves, including Prestone® Quick Fill® Antifreeze/ Coolant, a ready-to-use top off formula and Prestone® Super Radiator Stop Leak, a sealing product compatible with all types of antifreeze/coolants
More on Evans coolant @

www.evanscooling.com/articles/aug98oc.htm


Please notice the $5.00 a gallon in the 1930's! A 1936 Cadillac took 7.25 gallons of antifreeze to fill or $36.25!

M.L. Anderson

Very true, modifications can?t improve on perfection!

Question?

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What does the factory owner?s manual recommend you put in your new Cord radiator?

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<!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: --> -Duh- <!-- s:?: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_question.gif" alt=":" title="Question" /><!-- s:?: -->

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<!-- s:idea: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_idea.gif" alt=":idea:" title="Idea" /><!-- s:idea: --> Answer: pure water.

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Seems to have worked fine,

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Why didn?t I think of that!

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And the price is right also!

Pays to read the instructions

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he-he :mrgreen:, remember,"Use only Genuine CORD Water"

Back in the 1950s I received an award at an ACD Meet that was given, essentially, for "the most modified Cord still recognizable as one". <!-- s:? --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt="" title="Confused" /><!-- s:? --> I used to experiment, then and for many years thereafter, with ways to improve on the Cord's engineering. I've abandoned most of those aberrations. But some of those improvements are still with me --- I've been using six volt alternators, for example, for nearly 50 years, to deal with the typical weak generator of the 1930s that isn't up to today's driving safety standards. The other modifications I still use were designed by many who are wiser than I, and deal with the Cord's obvious issues --- needle bearing rocker arm rollers, modern u-joint conversions, lube fittings for points that were supposed to be lubricated "for life", some internal transmission modifications. Still others, like radial tires, are safety improvements based on modern technology.

I have learned, however --- slowly, painfully --- to leave alone those things that are perfectly usable in their original state. Or, those that are symptomatic of the era in which the Cord was built. Cooling is one of these.

On heavily-used mountain highways, even in the 1940s, the roads were lined on summer days with cars with their hoods up. I can remember my dad watching the water temp gauge in our new 1947 Chevy on those roads, and stopping before it boiled. And some friends with Ford V-8s never made it at all.

It is my opinion that the Cord V-8's cooling system was at least as good as any other of the era, and better than some. I believe that the problem lies in the inability to move enough air through the radiator at slow speeds. This is a function of air intake area, among other things. Paying attention to this issue can yield dividends, I think. So will keeping everything clean and circulating. Lycoming's engineers --- and Auburn's --- were as bright as they come. I'm not convinced that analyses of their block design, or thermostat placement or material selection offer many avenues for practical improvements.

Our Cords are rolling museums. They illustrate how advanced the engineering and styling of this unique machine were. Part of the burden of being the custodian of such a museum is the need to pay more attention to driving and maintenance than is needed in modern cars. While I would no longer drive a Cord as my everyday transportation, I think the trade-off, for special trips, is well worth it.

I'm prepared to debate, as needed.

You know I bought my dream car that had not run in decades and decades and decades with high hopes for success and there is light at the end of the tunnel. It has come out from its slumber and is wiping the sand from its eyes.

I have been totally immersed in this cooling system since this is one of the many things plaguing it since it inception. The habit of forming scale and the particular bad erosion of the aluminum heads. Is this also an electric reaction? Maybe the minerals combine to make the engine one big cell? When stored for a long time the ions of water polarize and plate the block with the only available mineral, the iron in the water. I think distilled water has iron also. Whatever all water when in contact with iron will rust it, example, The Titanic.

Interesting things of the cooling system are also the thin walls of the block surface at the piston areas, possibly Lycomings aircraft design to lighten aircraft engines. Less weight more horsepower to lift ratio. Also the thermostat housings that an aircraft would benefit so as not to ice at high altitudes.

It is all this cool stuff that makes the 810-12 series so unique. With this conversion about minerals in water that will eventually attack the iron, no matter how distilled. And what we learned at the Evans.com site about the cavitations of metal when coolant becomes gaseous and the resulting steam cavities erode the surround metal.

No matter how we try to exclude the water the simple matter is that the whole design is meant to be operated in a wet environment, Earth, we get rain on the body, hence, wipers and leaky doors and windows and cowl vents. Maybe there is a way to coat the inside of the block, like paint or undercoating so the iron never contacts the water.

balinwire wrote: The water I use is very nice well water that we use here. If you ask anyone around here if they use distilled water in there batteries they think you are silly. The water has lots of calcium and iron though.

And that is exactly why well water is not recommended for batteries and radiators. No matter how safe or good tasting to drink it will have a lot of calcium and iron in it that will eventually attach itself to the insides of your engine. I always use distilled water mixed 50/50 with antifreeze and haven't had a speck of rust in anything.

Derek

With our Lycoming external pumps and flow restrictions in the narrow heads there may be a few drawbacks. Possible slipping belts for a start. The anti-cavation aspect is of most interest to me.

I would be willing to experiment if I had some of the product. It may be licensed to big producers and soon available everywhere. I see no reason the claims would not be true, with new cars designed to use the special mix NPG? & NPG+? COOLANT. Smaller radiators and block capacities with less internal flow resistance, I was surprised the product existed at all!

I tried to e-mail a question, ?is the product inflammable?? I have had glycol &lt;store bought antifreeze&gt; fires during sparking situations. Yes over the counter antifreeze is flammable, read the label. High concentrations will burn, I can attest, but they are easily &lt;hopefully&gt; extinguished with a proper fire extinguisher.

I was unable to use there mail link so I do not know if running this chemical could be hazardous in a crash. Some of the refrigerants, r12 substitutes, like Freeze12 for example will burn. I do not believe silicone brake fluid is flammable.

Well the more progress we have the more problems we have, I heard the old time racers used to use sisal rope to tie themselves in before they used to race around the track, before seatbelts as we know them. When men were made of iron and ships were made of wood.

--p.s. josh, I need the barrel for my fleet of eight, dream on, Cords. All I need is seven more <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: -->

Why would you want a 55 gallon drum (that's enough to fill eight Cord cooling systems)? A single fill should run about $150. If you think this will really bring the benefits they claim, that's not that expensive.

'Course, you asked for a "waterless coolant". You didn't ask for a [i:36km2yuf]cheap[/i:36km2yuf] waterless coolant

Correction: try www.evanscooling.com

then again this country boy may use well water---


NPG NPG+ 55 Gallon Steel Drum $1,100.00

Yes, balin, there is a coolant with no water in it. Check out www.evanscooling.com/main31.htm .

I?ve known about this product for several years. There have been two concerns. (1) Right out of the jug it?s 100 times more viscous (thicker) than water and 20 times more viscous than water/anti-freeze. This drops to only (!) 10 times more at high coolant temps, but I was concerned about the ability of the ol? water pump to push it thru the cooling system. And (2) more important, its heat transfer rate is much lower than water. NPG?s 370 degree boiling point means that the engine will never boil, but I was not happy with the idea of running an engine at 240 or 250 degrees that was never designed for such use. Note that Evans does not claim that NPG will reduce the heat of your engine. Actually, the engine will run hotter. (It may be more efficient too, if it stays together.) They just say that it won't boil.

Evans appears to be trying to address the above problems with their new NPG+, claiming that it is less viscous and has better heat transfer properties.

The ?Vintage? page on their website lists some old cars that use their product, including several ?Great Race? winners. Do any Cord or Auburn drivers use this product?

All my cooling parts have been replaced for the ultimate flow that can be achieved. The radiator is open, the pump is as good as it can be the thermostats are sitting on a shelf, good gaskets, no leaks, block as free as possible.

This time when it is burning the petrol it should run at acceptable temperature levels, if it runs to cool, I would replace thermostats. If it runs hot it could only be a leaky head gasket squishing hot gas by the gasket and overheating the cooling fluid.

The water I use is very nice well water that we use here. If you ask anyone around here if they use distilled water in there batteries they think you are silly. The water has lots of calcium and iron though.

I can tell you it will rust iron though as the lower spout of the radiator is cast iron and during the past few weeks there is rusty water in the bottom and it was clear just a few days ago.

A place where the high humidity is noticed is in brake fluid here. It gets very rusty quickly. It absorbs at least 3% content H2O in a 365 day period.

Now I am looking at a complete engine lacking only one thing. Coolant! I have read about the recipes for coolant but they still contain one thing this block does not need, Water that will attack this block.

I really do not think it will survive another seventy-five years with this water in it. It may rust clear thru!

My question is there a replacement for water? Not water wetter but no water altogether.

We have silicone for the brakes, is there a engine coolant that does not contain water and is not flammable?

I have not heard of this product and would be willing to purchase 28 quarts synthetic coolant.

I learned about WaterWetter from Jim Lawrence when I first moved to California. There?s more info on how it works at www.redlineoil.com . (Despite the ?snake oil? sound, Red Line and its products are highly respected in the California Bay Area.)

Many of us in areas where the temp rarely if ever drops below 32 F do not use anti-freeze. Ethylene glycol is a much poorer transfer agent than plain water, so a typical 50/50 mixture of antifreeze and water does not transfer heat as well as water does.

If the tap water in your area is hard, as mine is, you should not be using it in your cooling system. However, there is some controversy regarding the use of distilled water or household softened water too. Distilled water is said to be ?mineral-hungry?, and will attack aluminum and cast iron in order to balance itself. Softened water is said to retain some of the sodium used in the softening process. (Any chemists out there with definitive info?) So, after reading of Mercedes-Benz?s recommendations for water specs some years ago, I determined that natural spring water comes closest and that?s what I use. I buy it at the supermarket.

While WaterWetter contains an anti-corrosion formula, I add a product called No-Rosion originally created to keep cooling towers free of corrosion. (Griot?s Garage sells it their catalog too, under their own name.) Both companies involved assure me that they are compatible.

So what cools my Cord is 28 quarts of natural spring water, a couple of bottles of WaterWetter and a dose of NoRosion. When I change my coolant annually, which you should do too, it costs me about $25. That seems like a worthwhile maintenance expense.

t here are 43 replies!!!! wow how about one reply the ULTIMATE SOLUTION -priviso you have a cleen system-- BETTER LIVING THROUGH CHEMTSTRY. USE DISTILLFD H20 [NO ANTIFREEZE] PLUS A WATER WETTER [- BRAND- RED LINE ] FROM YOUR LOCAL NAPA AUTO STORE on my cord with thermostats 165-180 and 50-50 antifreeze water at idle for 30 min. temp was 200 with 100%water plus WATER WETTER temp ran 160-170 after 30 min.idle!!!!!! rev up engine for 5-10 seconds temp went down to 140-150 !!! END OF PROBLEM---- NUF SAID.