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CORD HARDTOP COUPES

  • sunroofcord
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08 Dec 2005 14:32 #4109 by sunroofcord
Replied by sunroofcord on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
Back to the original subject of this thread, I contacted Barrett-Jackson to see if I could obtain any information on the Hardtop Coupe (serial#s and a copy of the so called ACD Certifiication) in there Sneak Peek Catalog for Scottsdale 2006. I was directed to the lot #1281 on there website for any information they had on this car and was also told that this particular Cord is now NOT coming to Auction. Of course, there was no info on this car on there website, lot #1281 turned out to be a Mustang. I then asked if it was possible to get the original consignors name but that info was confidential. On the subject of Cord Station Wagons, if you put Woodie in the keyward search on this website, you will come up with a posting of a Cord Woodie being built. Unfortunately, this was posted by a Guest, so there is no way to find out more information on this project.

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  • Josh Malks
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02 Dec 2005 05:18 #4076 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
Sometimes it's hard, from the perspective of today, to put yourself into the shoes (and minds) of those of us who cared for Auburns and Cords fifty years ago. Of course Dallas Winslow's operation was not a "factory" in the sense of manufacturing goods. But since we could write to the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Company and get a response, and since we could receive brand-new parts by mail, and since we could ship them a beat-up transmission and get back a virtually new one, it was WE who named it "The Factory".

The title was honorably conferred, and I see no reason to rescind it now.

Incidentally, the A-C-D Company did have many vital parts manufactured, using factory prints. Cord outer universal joints, transmission gears and hubcaps were among these. Not always the best quality, though.

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  • Lycoming-8
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02 Dec 2005 04:58 #4075 by Lycoming-8
Replied by Lycoming-8 on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
On the other side of the coin, Glenn Pray's ACD really was a factory. That was an amazing place to visit, and still is. Been there, done that many times. So thankful I live so close.

'31 Auburn Coupe

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02 Dec 2005 03:48 #4074 by
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Hi
I got another one for your guys to wrastle around with. Was Dallas Winslow's ACD Co. really a factory? He was mostly as service company for Auburns and Cords. I know he had some stuff made but I don't think he actually made anything himself so I don't see how he could call his operation a factory. When I first jointed the ACD Club, I found it confusing to say your Cord went back to the factory in the 50s when ACD went out of business in 1937.All comments welcome. Thank you
Tom

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  • Maurice Randall
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02 Dec 2005 01:53 #4073 by Maurice Randall
Replied by Maurice Randall on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES

Josh Malks wrote: Interiors restored by "The Factory" in the post-war era are considered original variations. (For example, Ralph Butler liked to add a row of screws across the top edge of the door panels of open cars.)

It's got that row of screws.

Now if Dallas Winslow's ACD Company turned a sedan into a station wagon, what would that be? Or Glenn Pray's ACD Company?

Hmmmm.

I was wondering the same thing.

If anybody attempts this, the station wagon should be built from a bustle-back Cord. It wouldn't be as much of a loss. :)

-Maurice

== 2006 will be the "50th" AUBURN Reunion ==

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  • Josh Malks
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01 Dec 2005 20:47 #4072 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
Interiors restored by "The Factory" in the post-war era are considered original variations. (For example, Ralph Butler liked to add a row of screws across the top edge of the door panels of open cars.)

Now if Dallas Winslow's ACD Company turned a sedan into a station wagon, what would that be? Or Glenn Pray's ACD Company?

Hmmmm.

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  • Maurice Randall
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01 Dec 2005 20:20 #4071 by Maurice Randall
Replied by Maurice Randall on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES

Josh Malks wrote: So yes, a convertible coupe returned to the factory to be modified into a hardtop is an authentic body style. (The factory even gave it a new number plate with the suffix "M".) A Cord that had the same modification made in 1950 (or 2005) is not.


That makes sense then.

However, just to be a pain in the rear.... there is no hardtop coupe anywhere that was "always" a hardtop coupe.

On another authenticity topic, could the upholstery in my Dad's 37 Cord Phaeton be considered original upholstery because he took the car to the factory back in 1957 and had Ralph Butler redo it using the original material and patterns? That's got to be as close to original as any redone interior could possibly get, I would think. He had the whole front end (steering and stuff) rebuilt at the same time while it was there. The car probably didn't see another 2000 miles after that. It's now been sitting in the basement since about 1961 or 62.

-Maurice

== 2006 will be the "50th" AUBURN Reunion ==

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  • Josh Malks
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01 Dec 2005 15:02 #4070 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
Maurice, the words "the exception being that it was done at the factory" are critical. No matter what the Auburn Automobile Company did to an Auburn or Cord, or what Duesenberg, Inc. did to a Duesenberg, the result is a genine, original A, C or D. That includes sending them out to be bodied or rebodied by others. As a matter of fact, we also attribute originality to modifications made by others during the factory period, like the sunroof on the Cords of Ethan Turner and Speed Davis.

So yes, a convertible coupe returned to the factory to be modified into a hardtop is an authentic body style. (The factory even gave it a new number plate with the suffix "M".) A Cord that had the same modification made in 1950 (or 2005) is not.

And no, if "someone" turned a sedan ito a station wagon now, it is not an authentic Cord body style. If you found one that the factory had done, it is.

Just my opinion.

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  • Maurice Randall
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01 Dec 2005 14:34 #4069 by Maurice Randall
Replied by Maurice Randall on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
To be realistic, there is no such thing as an "original" Cord Hardtop Coupe. They all began life with a different body such as a convertible coupe.

The closest thing to an original would be the one that was returned to the factory to be modified into a hardtop. But still, it was a custom job performed on an existing convertible with the exception being that it was done at the factory.

If any of the known hardtop coupes are considered to have any type of authenticity, then any current Cord could be customized with a hardtop and should be treated the same way.

It's really no different than making the car into a hot rod.

What if someone took a sedan and converted it into a station wagon? What's the difference? It would be another model that the factory could have produced. See what I'm getting at?

-Maurice

== 2006 will be the "50th" AUBURN Reunion ==

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  • Josh Malks
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30 Nov 2005 16:02 #4062 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
For everyone's information, the only two coupes that have been certified are the Fay car and the "Stranahan" car.

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30 Nov 2005 02:16 #4060 by cbs
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At first glance I always thought the Johnson car was a coupe, has a removable leather/vinyl covered hardtop. Could be easily mistaken if in an auction brochure pic.

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30 Nov 2005 01:35 #4058 by
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It figures...I sign off and 5 minutes later I find the info I was looking for.

The tan coupe was at Auburn in 1991. At that time it belonged to Paul Quinn in Mass. In 1995 it was at Auburn again only it was rich maroon and owned by Charles Knof. Yes these two are the same car.

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30 Nov 2005 01:13 #4057 by
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Here is what I've been able to come up with (based on memory, files and a call from Bob McEwan)... Back in the early '90's (I can't find the exact year) there was a couple at Auburn that was restored by Mr. Ehresman. At the time the car was Palm Beach tan. This was one of the reported three original coupes.

Not long after the restoration was finished there was a problem with the paint system that was used on the car (this was the time frame the manufacturers were changing the formulation of the paints) and the car was repainted rich maroon. This is the car that was at Auburn in 1995.

It was around that time the car made the auction circuit and I lost track of it. I am guessing this coupe at the Barret Jackson auction is the same car.

I check with Bob McEwan and he beleives there are only the 4 coupes around today (at least we haven't heard of any more). These would be the three originals we've been talking about and Bob's.

The construction of Bob's coupe was well documented in the ACD Newsletter when it was built in the early '70's.

I hope this helps out some...now let's see what the car does at the aution!

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  • sunroofcord
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29 Nov 2005 21:46 #4056 by sunroofcord
Replied by sunroofcord on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
Thanks for the clarification Josh. Will be interesting to see what Jim O'Brien comes up with if anything. Maybe I'll see if I can get any information on the Auction car from Barrett-Jackson. JIM

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  • Josh Malks
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28 Nov 2005 23:59 #4052 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
I did say that Bill Fay's coupe conversion is known to be a factory job. I did not say that we are sure that it is the only one. The "Stranahan" coupe (he was president of Champion Sparkplug) was photographed in California in 1939, but we have no shots of it at the factory. To my knowledge none of the other coupes has documentation that supports its existence during the factory era. If I am wrong I would truly like to be corrected.

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  • sunroofcord
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28 Nov 2005 22:52 #4051 by sunroofcord
Replied by sunroofcord on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
I knew that Bob McEwans Coupe is a Replica and I also knew about Bill Fays Car that he has owned since 1948. I looked up a picture of the Champion Sparkplug car and noticed it also has a Vinyl Top. I then looked up the one that is in the 2006 Scottsdale Barrett-Jackson Sneak Peak Catalog. They claim this car is ACD certified but if I'm reading Josh right, the Bill Fay car is the only legitimate Cord Coupe that exists. I could not find the Auction Car on the Barrett-Jackson Website. Possibly, someone who is more computer advanced then I would be kind enough to scan in the photo from the Auction Catalog as well as pictures of the two Coupes that Jim O'Brien mentions. The Auction car looks to be Black in the picture but may be the Florida car that Jim refers to. The Tan one would make five Hardtop Coupes that exist if the Auction car and the Florida car are the same car. If not, then there would be six. I would have to assume that the Tan Coupe that was at Auburn is also a Replica.

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28 Nov 2005 16:56 #4049 by Josh Malks
Replied by Josh Malks on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
Be very wary of hardtop coupes that suddenly appear. Bob McEwan's is, of course, a re-creation beautifully done by the late Doug Johnson many decades ago. The only coupe of which we have actual photos [u:24vhpgcn]at the factory[/u:24vhpgcn] is the one owned by Bill Fay of Albuquerque NM. (It was returned there in 1936 as an 810 cabriolet to have the hardtop added.)

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  • Maurice Randall
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28 Nov 2005 14:31 #4045 by Maurice Randall
Replied by Maurice Randall on topic CORD HARDTOP COUPES
Bob McEwan's car is not an original hardtop coupe. He modified the car himself to make it that way a long time ago.

-Maurice

== 2006 will be the "50th" AUBURN Reunion ==

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27 Nov 2005 02:48 #4040 by
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There was a coupe at Auburn in 1995. It was a rich maroon color and at the time belonged to Charles Knof of Stuart Fl.

I also remember a palm beach tan coupe being at Auburn I think in the early '90's. I'm going to have to dig around and see if I have any info on that car.

I don't know which coupe is coming up for auction.

Jim

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  • sunroofcord
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27 Nov 2005 00:35 #4034 by sunroofcord
CORD HARDTOP COUPES was created by sunroofcord
To my knowledge, including ACD Club member Bob McEwans, there are 4 Hardtop Coupes that exist of the three originally made. one is the Champion Sparkplug car donated by Fay Culbreth to and on display at the ACD Museum. Another has been owned by an ACD Club member since 1948 and he evidently doesn't want to share it with anybody. The third has evidentally come up for Auction at the 2006 Scottsdale Barrett-Jackson sale in January. According to the listing, this car is ACD Certified and an Award Winner at Pebble Beach and Amelia Island. What is the history of this particular Hardtop Coupe???? The picture shows it with a Vinyl Top which I personally think is ugly. Is the Vinyl Top Factory or has it been added at some point???? Has this car ever been to Auburn???? The only Hardtop Coupes I have ever seen at Auburn are Bob McEwans and Fay Culbreths Replica (Red with White Top). Dad says he's seen another one at Auburn. He also thought Fay Culbreth owned two of the original Hardtop Coupes at one time and that there may actually of been 5 originally made, hence the reason for my questions.

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