Interchange info on Lockheed Wheel Cylinder kits?

  • Tom_Parkinson
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27 Jul 2005 00:23 #3407 by Tom_Parkinson
Tom_Parkinson replied the topic:
Hi Maurice--thanks for your reply.

I was interested in your comment about two different size wheel cylinders on the front of your Cord. I cannot imagine that any manufacturer could or would have any axle's wheel cylinders intentionally unequal. Information I received today from a club member suggests that the 1-1/4" x 1" step cylinder you found on the front of your Cord is possibly a rear wheel cylinder that got transplanted.

Do the rears have a similar disparity? If so, it's like having two pairs of odd colored socks. Do a little swapping to straighten out the arrangement.

---Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

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  • Maurice Randall
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27 Jul 2005 00:32 #3408 by Maurice Randall
Maurice Randall replied the topic:
Hi Tom,

I found it odd too that the front wheel cylinders were different from side to side, but I left it that way.

I'll be rebuilding the rear wheel cylinders sometime in the next couple of weeks due to the right rear leaking a little bit. I'll find out at that time if somebody mistakenly swapped the front and rear cylinders on the one side.

I'll post here what I find out.

-Maurice

== 2006 will be the "50th" AUBURN Reunion ==

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28 Jul 2005 01:52 #3417 by Jack Richard
Jack Richard replied the topic: Wagner Cord brakes
From my research and restoring my '36 Westchester, the Wagner-Lockheed brakes originally had wheel cylinders with 1-1/4" bores on the primary (front, longer lining) shoes, and 1" bores on the rear (secondry, shorter lining) shoes. The front brake shoe is "self engergizing" when stopping forward motion, and the rear brake shoe is "self energizing"when stopping reverse motion. After early production showed the brakes required more effort than desired to stop, the factory started using brake cylinders (on the front wheels at least) with 1-3/8" diameter bores for the primary shoes. This was to increase braking pressure. My car had 1-3/8" bores on the primary shoes on both front and rear brakes, but supposedly the fractory still used 1-1/4' bores on the rear cylinders. The front brake cylinders have and inlet which is canted toward the rear, so the the flex brake line tilts to the rear and avoids interfering with the suspension. The rear cylinders have and inlet which is 90 deg. to the backing plate, the rigid brake line goes straight in to the cylinder. A front cylinder could probably be adapted to the rear brakes if the brake line was bent so it could attach. The new Ford cylinders have the angled inlet like the front brakes, and have rear bores of 1" and front bores of 1-3/8'. The ends of the brake shoes press directly on the pistons, no rods in between. The ford shoes were different dimension and the pistons of the ford cylinders are larger and have the rubbers attached, will not work with stock Cord Wagner shoes. I replace the Ford cylinders and rubbers with those from my Cord cylinders and they work fine. The Wagner brakes are different from those of the Bendix design, but if properly restored will stop the car just fine. Good luck!
Jack

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  • Maurice Randall
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23 Aug 2005 22:20 #3584 by Maurice Randall
Maurice Randall replied the topic:
I'm in the process of rebuilding the rear wheel cylinders on this Cord now. As someone earlier suggested that the front and rear cylinders may have been swapped on one side of the car, I found this is not true. You can't swap front and rear.

Anyway, I've found that the right rear has a 1-3/8 inch piston on the front half of the cylinder and 1 inch of the rear half. The left rear has a 1-1/4 inch piston on the front half and 1 inch on the rear half.

So, this car has 1-3/8 on the LF and RR and 1-1/4 on the RF and LR. Odd, but it stops fine with this combination. I'm not going to change it.

By the way, the primary shoe (front shoe) has the shorter lining while the secondary shoe (rear shoe) has the longer lining. This is true on ANY car I have ever personally worked on including this Cord.

-Maurice

== 2006 will be the "50th" AUBURN Reunion ==

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  • Tom_Parkinson
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24 Aug 2005 00:43 #3588 by Tom_Parkinson
Tom_Parkinson replied the topic:
Hi, Maurice,

Thank you for your comments.

The question of the long shoe -vs- the short shoe is bugging me.

I am advised that on the Lockheed anchor point system, the primary shoe-in front--should be the longer one. This is presumably because the front show is getting the "jamming "effect when the brakes are applied, and the rear (secondary) shoe is getting the "glide" effect.

Bendix brakes are different. With no anchor point in the Bendix system, the pair of shoes squishes and rotates slightly around when the brakes are applied, and it is the rear show that gets the greater "jamming" energy effect. On the Bendix system the front shoe is the smaller and the rear shoe is the longer.

I have a photocopy of a detailed drawing on the Lockheed set up--email if you'd like it.

Parts are available at reasonable prices to make your cylinders standard. Email and I'll get you sources.

Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: http://mbcurl.me/YCSE

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24 Aug 2005 01:52 #3589 by Maurice Randall
Maurice Randall replied the topic:
Hi Tom,

The question of the long shoe -vs- the short shoe is bugging me.


I just found a picture of an assembled backing plate with shoes mounted and you're right, the Cord should have the long shoe towards the front and the short one towards the rear.

This is the first time this particular Cord has had any brake work done since 1958. Whoever worked on the brakes prior to my Dad owning the car apparently installed the 1-1/4 inch wheel cylinders along with installing the brake shoes in reverse order.

Anyway, the car stops quite nicely like this so it will probably be this way once again for a long time to come. I don't plan to take it apart again since it works OK. I just took it for a test ride and gentle stops work good as well as hard stops.

Anyway, this Cord is just about ready for Auburn. About the only thing left to do is to fix a small exhaust leak that makes it sound cheap, clean up the upholstery and vacuum the carpet.

-Maurice

== 2006 will be the "50th" AUBURN Reunion ==

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