Interchange info on Lockheed Wheel Cylinder kits?

  • Tom_Parkinson
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20 Jun 2005 18:27 #3250 by Tom_Parkinson
Tom_Parkinson created the topic: Interchange info on Lockheed Wheel Cylinder kits?
Still working on the Lockheed brakes....

Speaking of Lockheed brakes, does anyone have interchange info and availability on front and rear wheel cylinder kits? Stan offers the cups, but I need the cups, the springs, and the outer caps, ie, the whole kit.

I have the pistons, which cleaned up nicely. I'll put brass sleeves into the cylinders.

Thanks in advance,


----Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

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30 Jun 2005 15:17 #3300 by Jack Richard
Jack Richard replied the topic: Wagner Lockheed brake cylinders
The front Wagner Lockheed wheel cylinders are the same as the '41 Ford wheel cylinders, except the Ford cylinders use diffferent pistons and rubber boots, which did not work on my car. I replaced them with the Cord original pistons and rubber boots. The rear wheel cylinders are not the same, the fitting for the brake line is straight out the casting, not at an angle like the fronts. It might be possible to modify the rear brake lines to work with these angled cylinders, but I choose to sleeve the original castings with stainless steel sleeves. I had some problems with leakage between the sleeve and the cast iron body, be sure and use a good sealant (rtv silicone) when the sleeves are pressed in. Both the front and rear cylinders are mounted so the larger bore is toward the front of the car and operates the primary (longer) brake shoe. I was able to find replacement cups and springs at my local brake supply store, used the original outer rubber seals.

Jack Richard, D.D.S. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

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  • Josh Malks
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30 Jun 2005 16:03 #3301 by Josh Malks
Josh Malks replied the topic:
Jack is right about sleeving with stainless. You can find this service in Hemmings. As an engineer friend once teached me "brass should only be used for ornamental purposes" :-)

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  • Tom_Parkinson
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01 Jul 2005 18:03 #3306 by Tom_Parkinson
Tom_Parkinson replied the topic:
Thank you Jack and Josh for your responses !!

The history of my Cord before 1950 is a mystery to me, and there is certainly NO guarantee that the parts in it are factory original. The parts I have are quite different from the ones you describe.

I haven't looked at the rear cylinders yet. However, the fronts are different than what you have described. The fronts are 1-3/8" straight-through bore, not stepped. The rubber boots were crumble-apart brittle when I disassembled the cylinders, but they clearly had rectangular holes to fit the business ends of the brake shoes. The nodes on the shoes are in direct contact with the pistons: there are no round rods from the pistons to the shoes such as I am used to seeing in my Bendix brake-equipped 40 LaSalle and 37 Buick, and our more modern vehicles here at the shop.

I have the pistons and they cleaned up fine. I had to use the shop press to push them out of the cylinders. I found that 1-3/8 cups, springs, and not-quite-right boots were available through Auto Zone, listed under a 1940-42 White truck. The boots in the kits I got have round holes, not rectangular.

The flex hose in these cylinders is attached perpendicular to the cylinder. It is not at an angle.

The bleeder screws do not have Zerk-like knobs on the end. The 5/16" hex head of the bleeder looks like a bolt head with a hole in it. I will replace them with new ones to which a bleeding hose can be attached. The bleeders actually came out without breaking off! I first cleaned up the base of the bleeders in the blast cabinet, sprayed the with penetrating fluid (some gorp called Master Blaster, or similar), had a cup of coffee while waiting, and tried bumping them loose with a socket wrench. They unscrewed right out. I was quite happily surprised--saved me some machine time.

I have noted your comments about using stainless rather than brass for sleeves. I'll see what tubing is available through McMaster-Carr, my "Hardware of the Internet."

Thank you again for the responses. If you have any further information on my straight-through cylinders, please let me know.

----Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: http://mbcurl.me/YCSE

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26 Jul 2005 00:18 #3399 by Tom_Parkinson
Tom_Parkinson replied the topic:
Curiouser and curiouser...

I went to my local handy dandy Auto-Zone and got Joe--the best counterman in the Midwest--to pull out their super secret obsolete parts books. Turns out that A-Z doesn't have '41 Ford cylinders available, but they have post-war 40's cylinders available by pre-paid order, four days waiting time. The book says they are straight-through 1-3/8" bore, but it lies--they are in fact stepped cylinders, 1-3/8 at one end only. I haven't gotten any further than to see that they a) fit the backing plates, and b) they indisputably define which plate is left side and whch is right side. I expect to have to modify the pistons on the old South Bend Lathe, but that's not a big deal.

I did notice that the angle of the attachment of the hydraulic hose is aimed back--to the rear of the car--rather than forward. Since I didn't disassemble this car, I have no idea how that'll work out when the things are finally installed. At any rate, stainless-flex brake fluid hoses of any length can quickly be made locally at reasonable cost, so that's not going to be an issue. (Famous last words...)

Next question is, just what defines a primary shoe and a secondary shoe? My books seem to indicate without ever flat-out stating it, that the primary shoe is actually the one with the shorter lining on it. Anyone know for sure?

---Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief Emeritus, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: http://mbcurl.me/YCSE

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  • Maurice Randall
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26 Jul 2005 00:37 #3400 by Maurice Randall
Maurice Randall replied the topic:
When I rebuilt the front wheel cylinders on my Dad's 36 Beverly a couple of weeks ago, the original wheel cylinders were stepped. However, here's what I discovered.

The driver's side had a 1 inch cup and a 1-3/8 cup. The passenger's side had a 1 inch cup and a 1-1/4 inch cup.

I found this odd, but came to the conclusion that the engineers felt they needed a little more stopping power on the left-front wheel than what was needed on the right-front. The car doesn't pull to either side when stopping. Maybe with a stepped 1 inch and 1-3/8 cylinders on both front wheels, the car might tend to pull to the right a little.

This was either done at the factory for the above reason, or someone has changed the RF wheel cylinder prior to 1958 when my Dad bought the car. I tend to believe it was a factory setup since the car only had 34,000 miles in 1958 and spent most of those miles doing a 10-mile round trip almost every day on a highway in Pennsylvania during the first 13 years of its life.

-Maurice

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