Skip to main content

Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
06 May 2022 21:08 #45353 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Thanks Tom for working out how to display this difficult picture.
Barry Sly tells me there was a "fad" in the UK to have over size driving lights.
This one took first prize.

T cockerell
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1748 S

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • thomaslee
  • Offline
  • ACD Club Past President
  • Registered
More
06 May 2022 16:16 #45352 by thomaslee
Replied by thomaslee on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
05 May 2022 08:55 - 06 May 2022 03:40 #45342 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Hi Bill and all other interested parties.
I found some pictures of the "ultimate driving lamps" fitted to a RHD Cord cabriolet that was on the road in the UK and driven to Malta a number of times.
The lights looks like they came from a Duesenberg. They must have had a portable generator in the trunk to run them.
With those gigantic lights and other decorations it is a wonder any air was able to successfully pass through the radiator. I guess she just ran pretty warm all the way to Malta and back home to the UK.
Maybe Barry Sly in the UK can add to this posting? Barry has done extensive research on the Cords sold there new.

********************************************************
I am having trouble adding the picture and will have to come back to it tomorrow.

T cockerell
Last edit: 06 May 2022 03:40 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Adding picture, 2nd time

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
26 Apr 2022 05:06 - 26 Apr 2022 05:11 #45269 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Hi Everybody.
I enjoy getting involved with the discussions in the Forums as there is not much happening here in Australia. Attached is a copy of the production sheet as listed in the August 1967 Newsletter. The second page is my attempt to identify which cars came off the lines in each month of 1936. The last page comes from Dan Post's iconic book on Cords showing the spread of L29's, 810's and 812's registered in each state. It accounts for 2,320 810 -812 Cords. Some would have been exported .
I could not attempt to identify which cars were produced each month during 1937 as there were 812's as well as the Custom Series Cords.
It is a pity that more has not been preserved as it makes exciting reading.

T cockerell
Attachments:
Last edit: 26 Apr 2022 05:11 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Adding pages
The following user(s) said Thank You: wcoye

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • john mccall
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Registered
More
26 Apr 2022 01:32 #45266 by john mccall
Replied by john mccall on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
John,
If you go to the engineering change records , in many cases the records call out what car serial numbers the change was initially applied to. The date of the engineering change is also defined. Knowing your serial number, in many cases you can bracket when your car was produced. If you are extremely lucky, your car's serial number might be called out on a specific engineering change, with the date of the change , and you can pinpoint the exact date of production.

As an aside, more people writing into this particular discussion should read and use the engineering change info as gospel. As Jim indicates, production records don't exist. Engineering change records are official Auburn documents used to build the cars. They are official factory information, If you also read the factory accessory bulletins, you will find that the cars basically did not come out of the factory doors with most of the accessories that you may see on the judging field. They were installed by dealers as a way of making more dollars profit on cars that they sold. Exactly how that works with our club motto is another subject for discussion.
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1748 S

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • JIM.OBRIEN
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Registered
More
25 Apr 2022 22:35 #45264 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
John,
The only production records that survived are the end of the month record of how many of each model were built. If there were any order records they would have been from the dealership or the original owner.
Jim

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
25 Apr 2022 22:29 #45263 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
To the best of my knowledge the color of the information printed on the neck of the H10 plugs means nothing. But you need the black body Ho plugs. Some owners have actually painted the cad plated bodies black. I'm not sure how they will be judged. I do know the cad plated H10 or H10C are going to get a points deduction.


Gary Parsonsl

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • wcoye
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Registered
More
25 Apr 2022 16:13 #45262 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Since the topic of spark plugs has reared it's head again.......I have a bunch of 5 ring H 10s, three of which have black printing the balance red. What's the difference besides.......besides some being red and some being black?

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • John Meredith
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Registered
More
25 Apr 2022 11:56 #45261 by John Meredith
Replied by John Meredith on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
How do I go about finding the original purchase order? Who or where will this be? Do we have any surviving documentation from the production of Cords? I was told that the assemble date for this particular Cord is Jan 1937. But I have no idea as to where that information comes from. Help me out, please!

John Meredith

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Red Brick
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Registered
More
25 Apr 2022 03:53 #45260 by Red Brick
Replied by Red Brick on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Pete - I PM'd you regarding your fluted fog light reflectors.
Albert

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
25 Apr 2022 03:23 - 25 Apr 2022 03:24 #45259 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Great news Bill, now I'm heading for the dictionary .................... exped
We need more members to get involved, I'm in a Cord vacuum here in OZ.

T cockerell
Last edit: 25 Apr 2022 03:24 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Spelling error

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • wcoye
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Registered
More
25 Apr 2022 02:15 #45257 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Circling back to the original post, I wanna thank y'all the lens info and all the other great conversations. My lenses are now wearing rings. And my skill with masking tape and Xacto knives has grown expeditiously.
Bill Coye

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 23:07 #45256 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
John if your Cord has chromed glove box doors and garnish mouldings then for it to be accepted the judges would want documentation in the form of a copy of the original purchase order with the special items listed. Word of mouth is not acceptable.

T cockerell

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 18:25 #45254 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Thanks again John. My car in particular has several accessories. I have the under dash ash tray. I have the heater. I have the winged hood ornament. And now the Fog King driving lights which are far from correct to the best information I can piece together. Judging allows for only three extra points so I have some items that won't count towards my points.I'm ok with this. But the question continues as to why "somebody" wont come forwards and share vital information so we can correct or maintain these priceless cars for the next caretaker.
And on another interesting judging topic is the correct tires.... They were originally double whitewalls bias ply with tubes. I had one on my car in VERY poor shape.It may have been an original because my car came off the roads in around 1949 never to be driven under its own power again. Judging states changes made for safety like tubeless tires or seat belts are NOT a points deduction. I also ask myself did any Cord leave the assembly line with black wall tires. Some say yes... Some say nope. These cars are NOT Corvettes where the grease pen marks and the over-spray is a judging item. I hope to GOD we never get to to that point...


Gary Parsons

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • John Meredith
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 15:18 #45252 by John Meredith
Replied by John Meredith on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
I feel for you on those sparkplugs. It took awhile before gathering a complete set of the two ring, beer bottle H-10s. Those are reserved for showing the car only and will not be used for driving. You are right. What will be very important to this discussion is to have someone from judging involved. We need to work together if we are going to make progress. Importantly, we need the input from the judges in order to help preserve the history we are in trusted with.

Cheers,

John M.
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1748 S

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 15:07 #45250 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Very good question John. Somebody knows but may not care to share or have not seen this posting in detail.
Lets take a look at correct spark plugs. In the perfect ideal world we need the two ring Champion H10 plug with the beer bottle looking porcelain and the black body. Sadly they are now close to $300.00 EACH. But they are out there.Stepping back from that plug it the five ring with the black body. Stepping back once more is the five ring with the cad body gun blued to black.That takes plenty of work to get the cad plating off and then blued as much as seven times. Then stepping back again some just use the cad plated five ring H10 plugs and take the judging hit. This is where the judging gets the variables. I don't judge nor do I know how what I have posted here is going to be accepted. I know this spark plug message to be the truth.


Gary Parsons

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • John Meredith
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 12:48 #45249 by John Meredith
Replied by John Meredith on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
To All,
This is a good discussion. I think that what might help all of us is to have more photos of the accessories and what is "correct". Would it be possible to in some fashion connect photographs of what is correct with what the judging standards are? I'm willing to help with this. Possibly we could start a new thread regarding photographs of accessories. Or, may be we can develop a new file on judging standards that is linked to photographs of "correct" standards. I do think there was a degree of variation coming off the assembly line and I do think the onus is on each of us to do the research regarding a particular feature of our Cords. Sorry if I came across frustrated in one of my posts. I am just trying to sort through what has been added and what is "correct" on my Berline. There are some unique items on this Cord, like chrome glove box doors and window sills. The family is strongly certain that these were present when the Cord was purchased. Do I keep them or put them back to "standard/correct"? I may never know what or how this Berline actually looked when first sold. This is part of the mystery of Cord automobiles.
Hope this helps and adds to our discussion.
Cheers,
John M.
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1748 S

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 05:28 #45248 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Mike you can receive up to three points for accessories on 810 812 Cords, one for each item. If you have more bit and pieces you don't get extra points.

T cockerell

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 05:26 #45247 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Thank you Mike.... Some of us what and like Fog King lights. This is why many of us in this post are seaking the "correct" way these lights are supposed to be. I'm very well versed in the correct spark plug and grit my teeth when I see the Cad plated bodies. My years of spark plug research and collecting have blessed me with many two ring Champion H10 and the dark body H10 with 5 rings.


Gary Parsons

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • mikespeed35
  • Offline
  • ACD Club Life Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 04:37 #45245 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
As I used to tell L-29 owners who ask trunk questions for judging, if you don't have fog lights, heaters, compasses, you don't have to worry about what is correct! They are not required for judging but are accessories. Just a thought.
CORDially MIke

Mike Huffman

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 03:53 #45242 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
"The judging standards are just what the judges will accept, not necessaryly the way the Cords came from the factory". That's quite a statement Jim.
I was under the "illusion" that the new revised judging standards concentrated on exactly how the cars left the factory apart from accesories that were fitted by the dealers.

T cockerell

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 03:26 #45240 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Thanks for the explanation Jim. As to what I have researched from well known members is what I have contributed to this post. My information is very specific. Something nobody has mentioned yet is where their particular Fog King light was made. I don't think it needs to be in this but here it is for historical purposes. They were made in three different locations. Pete Kelly have an original box that says Chicago. I have seen some lights made here in Los Angeles. But most are made in Racine Wisconsin. Those are the most plentiful. Nobody wants to do this job twice because of cost n time spent. My idea is do it once and do it right. We all know how our Cords were put together on a shoestring assembly line by a broke company. Heaters are another touchy item because some say their car came off the assembly line with a heater. But when the factory stopped paying for parts received they stopped getting parts and had to source other suppliers willing to take a chance. You once said on this forum all Cords are the same but they are all different. Nuts n bolts run low on the assembly line to substitutes were used. How exactly any car was able to drive off the line can be different from the car in front of it or behind it. Overall the factory did a fine job getting these cars "finished".


Gary Parsons

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • JIM.OBRIEN
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 03:04 #45238 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Regarding the way it should be....the answer is not that simple. These cars were hand built on an assembly line. There were at least two or three versions of everything and as they learned(or ran out of money) they changed. The judging stanadards are just what the judges will accept, not necessaryly they way the Cord came from the factory.

Regarding the fog lights they were dealer installed options. Auburn would sell the fog lights to the dealership. Some dealerships would buy fog lights from other sources and install them on new Cord - this would save them a couple of dollars. Also each dealership would install them their own way so there is no one way to run the wires, locate the switch, etc.

If you really want to know what is correct for your car start doing research. You can start with the engineering change notes, find original factory photos or early photos. Take a very good look at the few original cars that are left. I know you will have a lot more time in doing the research then you will have in restoring your Cord!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • wcoye
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Registered
More
24 Apr 2022 00:49 - 24 Apr 2022 01:06 #45237 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
I'm certain I'm not the only member who does things on a shoe string budget. It's essential I do things correctly the first time cuz there might not be funds for a do over. That's why I asked the "ring" question in the first place. I can't afford to guess what is correct and hope I'm right.

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award
Last edit: 24 Apr 2022 01:06 by wcoye. Reason: Very poor phrasing

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • pete kelly
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Registered
More
23 Apr 2022 17:27 #45233 by pete kelly
Replied by pete kelly on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
This is a volunteer organization.
If anyone wants something, volunteer to head it up.
I just try to be helpful; if anyone wants fluted fog light reflectors I have a couple extra.
Pete

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • John Meredith
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Registered
More
23 Apr 2022 16:12 #45231 by John Meredith
Replied by John Meredith on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
This is nonsense. Why do we have judging standards? We invest a lot of money, time, and effort into our ACD cars to restore them. Our actions and activities are all directed toward preserving history; a history that is unique and of value. Yet, we have to guess as to what is correct historically. I think it is time that judging standards are set down in detail (if there can be agreement) for those of us who are in the process of restoration. There are still a few of the older club members who know what is correct and incorrect when it comes to historical detail.
My Berline had fog lights on it when it rolled off the assembly line. The wiring holes are still present on the front body shell. How am I to correctly restore this rare Cord if I do not have a detailed judging standard for something as simple as the fog lights! I do not know what exactly I need in reference to these fog lights.
It is time for judges and all involved to provide the information we need to preserve the history our cars represent.

John T. Meredith, MD
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jonathan Richards, 1748 S, wcoye

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
23 Apr 2022 03:23 - 23 Apr 2022 03:23 #45228 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
John, unfortunately the judges are silent in the Forums instead of leading the way. Quite a few years ago there was a campaign started to give details of how specific areas should be detailed and presented. The main one that comes to mind is the "Fuel Filler Area." I think this was done by Mary Killeen and others.
It detailed all of the screws and nuts as well as the sleeve material, chain and spring clips. A perfect example showing how to do it correctly.

T cockerell
Last edit: 23 Apr 2022 03:23 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Spelling error.
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1748 S

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
23 Apr 2022 00:34 #45227 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
John, I have asked this exact question TWICE on this and the judging forum. SAdly no answers. This ACD forum has only about 8% attendance at best per Randy Ema. I continue digging out bits of information from well respected club members but nobody has given"it all" to me...


Gary Parsons

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • John Meredith
  • Offline
  • Senior Member
  • Registered
More
22 Apr 2022 20:33 #45226 by John Meredith
Replied by John Meredith on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
The photos are helpful. What will be most beneficial will be to have photographs of exactly what the judges are looking for. Is there anyone who has a set of Fog King lights that meet the judging standards that they could post?
John Meredith
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1748 S

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
22 Apr 2022 16:13 #45222 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Thanks Pete Kelly. In the box originals.. Nothing better. I noticed yours have the fluted reflectors that makes the lens look fluted. I had someone show me the ultra rare fluted lens Fog King lights. I knew the difference but out of respect... Said nothing. I have a pair of both fluted and smooth reflectors.Not sure which ones I will use.


Gary Parsons

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • pete kelly
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Registered
More
22 Apr 2022 12:23 #45221 by pete kelly
Replied by pete kelly on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Here are pics of the fog light, NOS in the box.
All us Kelly's stick together.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
21 Apr 2022 14:52 - 21 Apr 2022 23:35 #45213 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Terry... The painted black brackets was told to me by Pete Kelly. I asked Brad Waken to confirm and he did confirm they are correct IF they are painted black. So far I have found two different types of these rare brackets. Jim Obrien mentioned he thought they were and Auburn part and had a part number cast into the inside of them.One more item I forgot to post yesterday was the actual lens mounting ring. Its a very specific narrow retainer ring. I recall seeing three or four different rings on these lights.


Gary Parsons
Last edit: 21 Apr 2022 23:35 by 1748 S.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
21 Apr 2022 05:25 #45211 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Gary the "Black Cord" is the hard topped coupe built by Bob McEwan in the mid 1970s. I don't think the brackets are "wrong" they are the correct shape, but just not painted black.
I don't think the judges would be splitting hairs over what material the brackets were cast in just as long as they are the correct shape.

T cockerell

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 1748 S
  • Offline
  • Platinum Member
  • Registered
More
21 Apr 2022 03:35 #45210 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
They REQUIRE the ring. As far as the black Cord picture goes.... The brackets and the lens are wrong. But they do look nice. Fog King driving lights are a speciality item in themselves. The lens retainer must be held together with a special fastener unlike most double nut n bolt fastener with removable attachments on each end. Then the bucket must have the back end flat. Not bullet shaped. On top of the bucket where the Fog King name tag is it needs to have the name tag telling us its Cord. Many times the bucket needs to have the letters sanded out for the tag to look correctly applied. The tag can't cover the imprinted name on the bucket.The lens must have the off white ring and might be able to be painted on.Otherwise its a factory thing.Now finally the brackets. They must be painted black and made from cast iron. How a judge can determine cast iron from steel is beyond me. But I believe judging is trying to eliminate the aluminum or non ferrous materials that have been made in the past. I prefer the chrome mounting brackets because it gives a classier finished look.Please anyone reading my post correct anything I have said. My information comes from well known club members and some widely respected judges. Its a matter of taste.Only a judge or a purist that can know whats correct.
Finally one last word on lens. There are several shades to pick from.So please buy a lens that matches what you have. Nothing in my opinion looks worse that two different shade lens or one is plastic and the other actual glass.


Gary Parsons

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • JIM.OBRIEN
  • Offline
  • Premium Member
  • Registered
More
21 Apr 2022 01:15 #45209 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Ring
The following user(s) said Thank You: wcoye

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Terry Cockerell
  • Offline
  • Elite Member
  • Registered
More
20 Apr 2022 23:01 - 20 Apr 2022 23:02 #45203 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp
Bill looking at all of the pictures I have taken in Auburn some Cords with fog lamps have the rings while others don't .
Maybe the judging people can comment on this?

T cockerell
Attachments:
Last edit: 20 Apr 2022 23:02 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Adding picture
The following user(s) said Thank You: wcoye

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • wcoye
  • Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Moderator
  • Registered
More
20 Apr 2022 16:54 #45202 by wcoye
Ring-A-Round the Fog lamp was created by wcoye
Greetings from chilly Raleigh! As I painstakingly masked a ring on a replacement fog lamp lens it dawned on me that the reason I'm doing this is because the one intact lens I received with my fog lamps has one. I have never seen a fog lamps up close. Sooooo, before I commit paint to my lenses, ring or no ring?

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum