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Please help with my Phaeton Top Lowering problems
- Terry Cockerell
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I think modern tires are wider than what were around when our Cords were new. I had to raise the trunk shelf about 3/4" to allow the Firestone spare to slide in.
Regarding preserving Rich Hulett's precious files, I agree this should be done.
Perhaps the Forums Web Master could create a site to store the information?
T cockerell
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- Aris Loumidis
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Had a 4-person team working over the weekend and the problems are resolved!
1. We removed the top completely, minus the first bow(windshield). It is not that difficult to do, we just had to unscrew the wooden screws from the two wooden beams #4 and #5.
2. The wooden screws came off easily and there were no more pre-existing holes on the wooden beams, meaning they were in their correct places.
3. The problem of the Bow Scratching the carpet on the LH side was caused at the bolts securing the adjusting plates, as shown on the pictures. The bolts were too long and overhung out of plate, so when folding down they would rub and scratch the carpet. I cut the bolt ends flush to the plate and that was it!
4. We inspected and confirmed the iron structure had been assembled properly, no bent or wrongly assembled bars, only the joints needed some oiling to fold easily.
5. We refitted the top on the beams and followed the procedure for lowering, and YES it went in all the way down!
My mistake was mainly not raising the structure up vertical before lowering it down ( see below), stiff joints, and most of all not folding the material along with the pads outside the beams, especially at the sided.
Here are my own additions to the Bulletins instructions:
a. With the buttons, latches, bolts, lid etc done, you start by lifting the #5 wooden beam as close to the #4 wooden beam.
b. Lift the whole structure up and as vertical as you can make it, THEN start lowering down, starting with beams #4 and #5 together as low as they will go. NOTE I choose to remove completely the Removable Rear Curtain with the window and store it elsewhere, it makes a big difference.
c. Continue lowering each beam one at a time as low as they will go and MAKE SURE top material with the cushions are NOT in between the beams, especially at the sides!
The Bulletin No 46 is confusing because it shows the top Folded over the car on the pages for Raising the top, while for Lowering is has a picture of most of the top already inside. Again, lift the whole structure up and as vertical as you can make it, then start lowering first beams #4 and #5 together as low as they will go, followed by the others.
d. WOODEN TRAY The wooden tray was obstructing the beams to go all the way down, allowing thus space for the folded top to easily go in. I removed a good part of it and I also put my spare tire in a plastic bag, so not to get the top material dirty; it also helps putting in out pulling it out.
e. SPARE TIRE FITTING. With the top all the way in, I found my spare tire rubbing on the #4 beam at the front end and on the carpet of the trunk lid at the other. It fits with no more space available! My spare is 6.50-16 B. F. Goodrich 4 ply so who knows, maybe it is just a very tight fit.
And a QUESTION TO ALL: Is there somewhere a file or source where club members can find Ricks’ Expertise? Besides tops he sent me carpet, door and so many more explicit detailed instructions of how to get things done on our classics. I don’t know if Rick is survived and if his descendants would agree to have such tech info published, from my part and because we got very close over the years he spent doing the work on my car, I believe he would want his work to endure and last through time…………. Any IDEAS?
Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton
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- Terry Cockerell
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Consequently it is and always has been a very special Cord.
T cockerell
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- Roads2run
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Tom Hartz
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- Terry Cockerell
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I have been in four different phaetons and bagged by head on two occasions. There is not much difference in height but you just have to remember to duck! I suppose phaeton owners just do it automatically?
Good luck with sorting out your problems Aris.
T cockerell
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- john mccall
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- Aris Loumidis
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All three tops shown look alike and even though I can’t tell if they all are High or Low types, Rick's top fits very nicely thus I don’t think I have a frame to top mismatch as shown here:
Aris Loumidis
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- john mccall
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The picture of the 2 cars says to me that the rear bow isn't latched in the second pic, or the canvas is too long to get the top to be tight at the rear in the up position, as it in the first pic.
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- Aris Loumidis
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Here are the serials attachment]
I cant remember if we discussed with Rick the high-low top but we did discuss the rear window and even though my car had the small one, I decided to bent on originality for safety reasons. My car came here new, ordered from Switzerland from Pierre Trachsler's father who was the rep back then. Pierre, not with us anymore, helped me a lot, we visited each other and the pictures i took from his Phaeton's S/C interior, show exactly what I have, bows etc. From what i can tell, his top in the picture below looks just like mine. There is Pierre in his S/C and my car when I bought it, so I can only conclude that whether High or Low, I must have the correct top for my frame.
In a couple of weeks I plan to work on this and post my findings, thaks guys for your help so far!
Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton
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- wynlaidig
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- john mccall
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Putting the top up or down is not an easy task. I have done it only with a helper to try to get both sides to move somewhat in unison. It usually works best with my son helping. Lately I have had to ask my wife to help . We usually confirm after the job is complete that we are still married!
I have a non Rick top, in the up position that has worked reasonably well in the 25 years that I have owned it. I also have a possibly original top in the folded position that has been removed from the body. If you make some measurements from the pivot points to the closest attachment points on your top for each of the bows I could check those against what I have.
Your pics definitely indicate significant issues that could be the result of incorrect installation , incorrect pattern for high or low top, or not enough good assistance putting it up or down. It is easy to get things a little bit cocked or the bows going into the trunk area in an improper order, or tucking the material too late etc..
Relative to your installation of a large back window. Did you re-cut your trunk board to the proper dimensions to accommodate the larger window? If so, it should fit in the allotted area.
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- Aris Loumidis
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Now to my problems, two or three tacks I found RIPPED OFF because of the stretching when I push the folded top to make it go in place. I wonder if that indicates where my problem is.
Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton
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- 1748 S
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Gary Parsons
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- Aris Loumidis
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Thank you both for the prompt response! I do have the Bulletin but it only describes how to put up and down the top, whereas I need to understand how to ADJUST the whole structure that apparently has not been fitted properly in the car. Additionaly I need to know if the torn stiching and those staples are original and should stay in place or the local upholsterer put them there.
Unfortunatelly my friend Rick and the local guy are not with us any more so I'm trying to find out how to go about this.
Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton
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- wynlaidig
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- Terry Cockerell
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The recent film on Woodlights made by Joel has set a new standard for sharing information.
T cockerell
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- Aris Loumidis
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After all those years I have put up the top only a few times and the main reason is that it is VERY hard to do, even though I try to follow the relative Service Bulletin No 46 as best I can.
Here are the TWO problems I have:
1. MISALIGNED BOWS. When lowering, the BOWS keep scratching the carpet lining on the LH vertical side. The RH side does not have this problem. Here are the pics, LH side with scratch and RH side intact.
Furthermore the Top Bow on the one side deos not fit in on the RH side, while the LH side goes in nicely, here they are:
Any ideas how to re-align the Bows?
2. FOLDING and FITTING IN PLACE
The car came with the small window but I replaced it with the later bigger one, and obviously it wont fold in place as shown on the bulletin. So the whole snap-on material with the window I store elsewhere.
Nevertheless, even though I fold the top material in between the bows as per the bulletin diagrams. it is almost impossible to lower it into place! The BOWS are original, the TOP is the closest it can be, as it was made by my good friend Rick Hullet. So what is wrong?
As shown on the following pictures, when folded and trying to squeeze in, in the edges of the bows the material is so much stressed that the STICHING has been torn and some STAPLES (?) are also already missing!
So I wonder could the local upholsterer who fitted the material onto the BOWS, made a mistake and stitched them on to the bows all the way too far at the edges? Should I remove the staples and unstitch the material where it is stretched too much? Any other ideas?
Below are the detailed pictures on this issue, Thanks ahead guys!
Aris
Aris Loumidis
Athens, Greece
ACD Life Member
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1936 CORD 810 Phaeton
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