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How to change the cross shift diaghram?

  • 1748 S
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22 May 2023 02:35 #47240 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
So true Pat. When I tried to remove my gas door from my car I had to make a combo wrench to back up the screws. Then one of them was an actual wood screw going into the wood frame at the door. Then someone had issues with the engine oil pan leaking. So they welded a piece of 1/2 inch angle iron to the pan rail. No socket or combo wrench could fit around the bolt hex. So EVERY BOLT came off one flat at a time rubbing the inside of the angle iron all the way out. Its amazing how mechanics or previous owners "fixed" a problem area.... But only made things much worse. Somebody better than me said.... "All Cords are the same but they are all different".... Its truly believable from my car. This post I have been reading for a few years has taught me plenty...


Gary Parsons

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  • Pat Leahy
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22 May 2023 00:24 #47239 by Pat Leahy
Replied by Pat Leahy on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Sometimes the simplest thing can cause mysterious things to happen. This goes 10 fold with Cord transmissions
Pat Leahy

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  • alsancle
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21 May 2023 21:18 #47238 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Yes Mike. The washer is an insulator. The rivet goes through to the other side. The solder on the rivet is bypassing the insulation.

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  • mikespeed35
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21 May 2023 19:36 #47237 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Is that a insulation washer under the rivit head? If so I understand, if not, I don't understand.
CORDially Mike

Mike Huffman

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  • alsancle
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21 May 2023 15:12 #47236 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
It seems that I had more than one thread active on my hunt for the issue in our shift system. For book keeping and posterity I want let everyone know what we finally figured out. The adventure started because my dad's Cord which was restored 55 years ago suddenly lost 1st, R and 4th. Now that I know a little bit and understand the system better I suspect the issue was in the Solenoid block . However, because at the beginning I had no idea what I was doing I mis-diagnosed things which eventually led us to replacing the harness, eliminating the plug, new interlok, new diaphragms, neutral switch, rebuild the solenoid block, etc, etc. The good news was every single piece of the system was new. The bad news was it still behaved weirdly. But with lots of help from the guys on this site (Jim O, Mike B, Terry and more) we finally figured it out. Check out this picture of the selection switch. Notice the tiny piece of solder making contact with the rivet on the red/green wire. This was causing a short through the switch to the yellow wire.
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  • alsancle
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22 Dec 2021 15:49 #44538 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Thanks Pat. I'm going to do some more testing this afternoon and will report back. I would bet on my screwing up as opposed to a bad switch. Especially since I have 3 different ones that all seem to behave the same but wrong.

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  • Pat Leahy
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22 Dec 2021 13:39 #44537 by Pat Leahy
Replied by Pat Leahy on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Looks like the switch is wired correctly. The green-red tracer should be hooked to all three switches as well as the white. The red-green tracer goes to closes switch to plate, central switch is yellow-black tracer, and outer switch is green.
You can test it like the normal switch. If is defective, let me know and I will send new switch.
Pat Leahy

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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21 Dec 2021 13:56 #44527 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
No you really can't install it upside down. I say that but there is always someone that will prove me wrong.

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  • alsancle
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19 Dec 2021 16:10 #44510 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Thanks. I suspected I was wiring the interloks wrong, so I wired up an original switch which is labeled for each wire. I'm not installing it upside down am I?
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19 Dec 2021 15:29 #44509 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Al, Your Switch is OK. With the car running and the switch in neutral you should only have power on the yellow-black and not on any others. The yellow-black wire runs to the cross shift switch which should put the voltage to the white (#1) wire if the cross shift shaft is not in the center position or to the Green-Red(#5) wire if the cross-shift shaft is in the center position.

The Green-Red(#5) wire will bring the voltage back to the wafer in the selectotr switch and power the white (#1) wire.

From what you are saying I'm back to the interlock switch on the cross-shift is not wired properly.

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  • alsancle
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19 Dec 2021 12:49 #44506 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Thanks guys.

I made the fish paper wafer and I don't think there is any contact between the wires and housing. I would guess if there is a problem at the switch it is in the switch itself. Before I take it apart again i will test for continuity between the red wire and the yellow/black. I'll also see what the behavior is with the clutch disengaged.
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  • 1748 S
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19 Dec 2021 05:24 #44505 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
I recall something about protecting all these exposed wires from coming in contact with the housing. Electrical tape???


Gary Parsons

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  • Mike Brady
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19 Dec 2021 01:21 #44500 by Mike Brady
Replied by Mike Brady on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Before you pull the switch out, I would disconnect the yellow-black and red wires and with a meter see if there is continuity between those two wires. If you didn't install a coil of fish paper between the selector switch contacts and the cast housing, I'd do that now.
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  • alsancle
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18 Dec 2021 20:00 #44496 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
I think I'm screwed and the selection switch as to come apart again.

Car running, clutch down, cross shaft in center neutral position, with the shifter in neutral I'm get 6 volts (5.6) on the yellow black wire and zero voltage on any other wire.

I'm could not have been more careful with the selection switch and we tested every wire per Jim's instructions prior to pulling the switch tight to the column. Perhaps something shorted when it was tightened up?

Anyone want to comment before I pull it apart again? I think there is enough slack in the harness.
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  • alsancle
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17 Dec 2021 14:46 #44485 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
So, a little experimenting. I disconnect either the yellow or red wire and the cross shaft will move back to the neutral position. I have an original switch but I need to solder leads on it. I may try that as you can't screw up the wires on it.

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  • alsancle
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16 Dec 2021 22:02 #44474 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Thanks Jim. I'm leaning towards a wire being wrong on the interlok also. I tested the selection switch per your instructions in the newsletter before putting it all back together as the idea of taking it apart again would kill me. I'm about 95% sure it is done correctly.

I have tried putting back the original (ACD Factory replacement) interlok but it is very hard for me to tell how it was original wired as the wire colors were gone. I can't get that switch to work at all. I have an original switch and I may solder some wires on to it and install it to see if that cures the issue.

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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16 Dec 2021 21:22 #44473 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Hi Al,
First off great video, that really helps.
When you are in neutral you are somehow getting power to the #9/yellow wire. (pulls the cross shift over to the right side). When you try coming out of 1st gear you are not getting power to the #1/white wire which pulls the cross shift out of gear and returns it to neutral.

First guess is you have a wire wrong on the interlock switch. Second guess is there is a problem up in the selector switch on the coulmn. I'm leaning towards the first guess I'm just not sure which wire(s). I have to thinks on it some and study the wiring diagram.
Jim
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  • alsancle
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16 Dec 2021 17:45 #44472 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Thanks Jim. That was good advice.

So, messing with the interlok switch I can get it to go in to ever gear. So the issue I'm having now is clearly eletrical. Right off the bat, you can see in this video I'm getting vacuum pulling it to 4th gear position when the selector is still in Neutral. Any thoughts?

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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02 Nov 2021 01:26 #44210 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
On the reproduction switches do not elongate the mounting holes. To adjust the switch there is a small allen screw in each cam. You can adjust each one individually. That way, in the future when you take the switch off and put it back on it will be in adjustment.
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  • Terry Cockerell
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28 Oct 2021 00:42 - 28 Oct 2021 00:42 #44185 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
One has to assume the pictures end up inverted simply because our Cords "are" problem children.
Thanks for the update.

T cockerell
Last edit: 28 Oct 2021 00:42 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Revising text.

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  • alsancle
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27 Oct 2021 17:10 - 27 Oct 2021 17:12 #44179 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
For future reference here are three different interlok switches. The first two are aftermarket and the last on the right is the factory switch. The one I'm going to use is the left most that I got from Pat Leahy. I had to modify it by trimming the outer edge and elongating the holes so it could be adjusted. The middle one came from Auburn Cord Parts and was on the car for years and years. The right most one is an original which I got from a fellow club member. I also have the original out of the car which is identical but has been taken apart to fix and is a mess.

EDIT: I have no idea why these are upside down. Any local tool I open them with shows them with the correct orientation.



Last edit: 27 Oct 2021 17:12 by alsancle.
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12 Oct 2021 12:54 #44081 by uconn_1965
Replied by uconn_1965 on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
When assembling, don’t forget that there is a thin paper gasket between the inter.lok switch and the aluminum housing. Also the 4 screws attaching the switch have small locking washers so that when you have the switch adjusted correctly, tighten securely so that the switch will never move.
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  • Terry Cockerell
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12 Oct 2021 00:52 - 12 Oct 2021 00:54 #44079 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Check the slot on the other end of the shaft too. The diagram shows how it goes together correctly.

I was able to start my engine for the first time recently since the restoration began however when I tried selecting gears I was only able to get 4th gear. With the new looms fitted there must be an electrical problem or two somewhere to be sorted out.

T cockerell
Last edit: 12 Oct 2021 00:54 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Revising text.

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  • alsancle
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11 Oct 2021 23:56 #44077 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?

Terry Cockerell wrote: Go back to page one of this topic and look at the drawing I had posted.
The slot is open at the top to accept the switch.


I would say I must have put it back together upside down. That would explain some things. Thank you.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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11 Oct 2021 23:50 #44076 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Go back to page one of this topic and look at the drawing I had posted.
The slot is open at the top to accept the switch.

T cockerell
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  • alsancle
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11 Oct 2021 23:27 #44074 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Interesting. Is the notch on top? Here is a picture of mine with the notch on the bottom which is the way I took it apart. I think.
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  • uconn_1965
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11 Oct 2021 23:02 #44073 by uconn_1965
Replied by uconn_1965 on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
If you look at Terry earlier drawing, the round pin on the interlock switch drops into the slot indicated in the drawing

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  • alsancle
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11 Oct 2021 20:37 - 11 Oct 2021 20:39 #44072 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
I made some progress today. I now have 3 interlock switches:
1.  ACD Factory replacement from the 60s that has been in the car for 50 years.
2.  A new replacement that I forget where I got it from.
3.  The original I just got from an ACD club member at Hershey.

The ACD replacement has been installed so I removed it but left it wired.   I noticed that by fiddling with the location manually the car would go into the gears,  but not the way you would expect it to.   Potentially mis-wired?

So, I swapped in the new replacement and by manually moving the position I could get the car into every gear in the way you would expect.  I had this switch installed before and it wouldn't work which makes me think there is an alignment problem with it. I'm going to try to slot the holes.

I would try the original unit,  but I can't for the life of me figure out how to wrap the lever around the shaft.  The replacements go straight in, but the original wraps around the back and points towards the switch.

A.J.
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Last edit: 11 Oct 2021 20:39 by alsancle.

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09 Sep 2021 12:44 #43867 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Got the new diaphragm installed, fixed the dog leg which was loose. It needed to be re-pinned and a new key made (thanks Mike for pointing this out!). Got the transmission filter cleaned, and everything reinstalled.

Went from having only 2nd and 3rd to having nothing. At this point I walked away for a month as I was disgusted with my trouble shooting ability. Went back to it on Saturday. Removed the interlock switch and manually moved the location of the switch by hand, and everything worked. The switch is aftermarket and I'm not sure it is aligned correctly. I'm going back to my former also a replacement switch to see what happens.

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  • alsancle
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09 Jul 2021 22:19 #43474 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
As much as I tried I could not get the housing and diaphragm to slide off so I ended up removing the entire cross shift assembly. I have a new bushing for that anyways so it would have had to come off to replace that.

Once on the bench, it was still tough for me to slide the diaphragm off. I've given the assembly to a shop to do the replacement. It took me so long because I needed to get a 12 point 1/2 inch socket with extra thin walls to get at the #4 bolt. I didn't want to turn down one of my good Snap On sockets.

I took pictures of the different bolts sizes. There seems to be 3 different lengths. Numbered clockwise starting in the upper left corner looking at the front of the transmission.
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  • Terry Cockerell
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27 May 2021 02:48 - 27 May 2021 08:27 #43265 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Keep the aluminum housing close to the leather diaphragm. Just separate the leather from the cast iron cross shaft housing and try pulling it upwards. The slotted joint should separate. The slot may have been relocated check the drawing I posted earlier on page 1 of this topic.
If this does not work do as Jim suggested take the whole cross shaft assembly off the gearbox.

T cockerell
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Last edit: 27 May 2021 08:27 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Adding sketch
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  • alsancle
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27 May 2021 00:43 #43264 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?

Terry Cockerell wrote: As a follow up on the last posting I had to remove the cross shift cylinder and diaphragm to fit the speedo drive. The slotted connection adjacent to the leather diaphragm allows the unit to be removed without taking the cross shaft housing off the gearbox.


Terry, could you explain how you did this? It feels like I'm a 1/4 of inch too tight when I pull the diaphram to the left, even with the shaft as far to the right as it will go - looking from the front.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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22 May 2021 03:14 #43230 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
As a follow up on the last posting I had to remove the cross shift cylinder and diaphragm to fit the speedo drive. The slotted connection adjacent to the leather diaphragm allows the unit to be removed without taking the cross shaft housing off the gearbox.

T cockerell
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20 May 2021 07:42 #43219 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Jim, I have not tried this on my car but seeing the slotted connection at the side of the diaphragm, can the aluminum housing and leather diaphragm be lifted up out of the car without taking the cross shaft housing off the gearbox?????

T cockerell

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19 May 2021 20:50 - 19 May 2021 20:51 #43213 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Attached is a picture showing the the leather diaphragm and slotted connection to the cross shaft.

T cockerell
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Last edit: 19 May 2021 20:51 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Adding picture
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  • alsancle
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19 May 2021 11:16 #43209 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Thanks Guys! I will be tackling this project next week.

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  • mikespeed35
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19 May 2021 03:59 #43207 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Just a comment. The three different size bolts you speak of may not have been installed correctly last time this part was removed! Best check before putting them back same way.
CORDiallyMike

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19 May 2021 02:08 #43205 by Mike Brady
Replied by Mike Brady on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
PM Sent

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19 May 2021 02:04 #43204 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic How to change the cross shift diaghram?
Pull the cross shift off the front of the transmission.
1. Disconned the rod from the main shift cylinder (remove the cotter pin and pull the pin out).
2. Disconnect the oil line from the filter at the center bottom of the cross shift housing.
3. Remove the wires from the cross shift swotch.
4. Remove the 6 bolts holding the cross sift houseing to the transmission - note which bolts come out of which hole - the bolts are three different lengths.
5. Remove the housing. You have to pull it straight towards the front of the car to get the pipe out of the top shaft and then wiggle it around to disengage the dogbone from the shift rails.

Look at the article in Newsletter #2 this year for mor info on the cross shifter.
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18 May 2021 23:54 #43202 by alsancle
How to change the cross shift diaghram? was created by alsancle
I've ordered a new diaphragm and seal for the cross shift assembly. However, I do not have enough space to get the housing off. See the picture. Even with the cross shaft moved all the way over to the right, I still need another 1/2 an inch or so.

Do I have to remove the passenger side fender? Or is it easier to pull the front cover off the transmission? Suggestions?

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