- Posts: 585
- Thank you received: 217
Interior re-trim .
- JIM.OBRIEN
- Offline
- Premium Member
-
Registered
I doubt the door weather seals were ever used on production Cords. Using these seals would require shortening the door panels by 3/8" and I don't think there is enough room in the channel at the bottom for the backing board and the rug and binding. Maybe they were intended to be used and instead they used the rugs on the bottom of the doors.
I did check the original door panels from my westchester (810 1383A) and there are no signs there was ever any weather seals on them.
Jim
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
Anybody out there wishing to donate to a good cause, please contact me?
PS. It will have to be a return trip as I would want to take it home.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- john mccall
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 33
The more people that chime in the better. If they happen to be on the judging team that's great.
I looked at one more car, a 1936 Westchester, 1500 A. It has a bead attached to the door metal everywhere but the bottom. It is about 1/8 inch in diameter and as such it is just basically a trim item, barely coming out to the thickness of the door panel. We need SN's for the rest of the pics that were posted.
I might have a bottom door seal. I will have to see if I can locate it and check it against the blueprint.
John
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- 1748 S
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1738
- Thank you received: 134
Gary Parsons
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mikespeed35
- Offline
- ACD Club Life Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 883
- Thank you received: 194
CORDiallyMike
Mike Huffman
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mikespeed35
- Offline
- ACD Club Life Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 883
- Thank you received: 194
CORDiallyMike
Mike Huffman
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
Other areas of interest are the door seals. I understand the early cars had molded rubber seals. Actually I have copies of the drawings as they were found by the Hupmobile Car Club. Information supplied by Rick Hulett shows them fitted along the bottom edges of the door panels. One notable example that can be seen with them is the Hard Topped Coupe. The pictures of it were taken in the Factory in Connersville. This Coupe was built from a Cabriolet and Cabriolets appear pretty late in 810 production. There are always interesting anomalies with Cords.
The first and second drawings are for sedans.
The third drawing is for phaetons and probably cabriolets as well.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- john mccall
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 33
Yes, I thought the reason this thread was started was to help define what the interiors and trunks looked like when the Cords were built. That's why I tend to question any info I see that is different from what I have seen or remember.
I have sent a summary of the emails I received from Rick to 2 people who I thought could benefit from the info. It would be great if we could get everyone who has info from Rick, to submit that info. The trick however, is to find someone who has the capability of organizing and correlating that info into a more digestible form. In the meantime if we could just get all the submissions on this sight somehow so that the general membership who are interested could read through the stuff.
John
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
What you have said is a good idea.
My Cord which is known as the Actonite Cord due to its historical connections with Acton, Ontario has Serial No 810 1586 A.
A while ago in the Forums there was a suggestion to store all of the various information sheets and pictures that Rick Hulett had shared with the members however nothing that I am aware of has happened with this proposal. I have a lot of material that Rick kindly shared with me. I am happy to share it or pass it on to a suitable location.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- john mccall
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 33
It seems we need to start attaching serial numbers to the pics we are showing so that we can define what is an early car and a late car. The serial number of the 810 Westchester that I looked at is 2582 A. The 812 Custom Beverly no. is 10095 S
John
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- wynlaidig
- Offline
- ACD Club Life Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 256
- Thank you received: 44
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
The last 6" is missing.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- wynlaidig
- Offline
- ACD Club Life Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 256
- Thank you received: 44
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- 1748 S
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1738
- Thank you received: 134
Gary Parsons
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- wynlaidig
- Offline
- ACD Club Life Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 256
- Thank you received: 44
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
I am confused with your comments regarding carpet strips and the seat platform.
Can you attach a sketch to clarify what you mean?
Attached is a picture of the rear seat.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
I based my door trim panels on information supplied by Mark Clayton and Tim Gilmartin whose Westchesters were restored very accurately. Mark's in particular as it is an early production Cord like mine.
At some early stage rubber door seals that were along the bottoms of the doors were dropped from production. Note, when my doors are close there is space between the door panels and the polished aluminium sill covers. The bottom of the door panels does not seal against the aluminium covers.
The last picture was taken in the Factory ............... you can see the original rubber seal along the bottom edge.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- john mccall
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 33
I checked a Westchester and a Custom Beverly this morning that have original interiors. Neither had the extra welting that you point on your car. The cars both have a welting that runs up the front, across the top, and down the back side of the doors but it is attached to the body with drive nails. Nothing at the bottom of the doors. This serves the purpose of sealing the doors from the outside air. At the bottom the sill plate has a ridge that contacts the door trim to serve the same purpose. Was this type of welting on your original door panels and what purpose would it serve?
John
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- A.S. KOLLER
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 52
- Thank you received: 1
I have no idea why the last post went out three times. Sorry about that.
I was not aware that there was a pipping around the door panel and the window frame.
My window frames go right to the edge of the door frame so a piping in this area would sit proud of the door frame and my front doors do not have the clearance to allow for that. I am not sure of what the reason for that would be
but I don't see a practical solution to the problem.
I believe my window frames are reproductions as there were holes the window weather strip attaches, so that might be the problem.
I noticed in the picture of the rear door that the carpeting strip along the rear of the seat platform does not wrap over the platform as I would have expected
and that the rear top of the platform is not carpeted.
Am I correct and if so is that and is is that correct?
Thanks
Steve
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
My Westchester has the plain broadcloth door panels. My upholsterer glued a 1/4" layer of sponge foam rubber over the panel before fitting the broadcloth.
The window frame or garnish molding holds the panel in place along the top.
Note there is a welting that runs along the sides of the door panel and around the garnish molding.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- A.S. KOLLER
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 52
- Thank you received: 1
Referring to the picture of Rick Huletts door panel, it appears that the top of the upholstery is wrapped over the door cardboard and is fastened to the back of the panel .
I would have assumed that the fabric at the top would have been glued to the door at that point and covered by the window frame since the window frame can not go over the panel itself. This would keep the door panel from pulling away from the doo at the top and eliminate any potential gaps along the window frame.
This is basically what they did in the L-29's.
I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Steve
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- A.S. KOLLER
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 52
- Thank you received: 1
Referring to the picture of Rick Huletts door panel, it appears that the top of the upholstery is wrapped over the door cardboard and is fastened to the back of the panel .
I would have assumed that the fabric at the top would have been glued to the door at that point and covered by the window frame since the window frame can not go over the panel itself. This would keep the door panel from pulling away from the doo at the top and eliminate any potential gaps along the window frame.
This is basically what they did in the L-29's.
I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Steve
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- A.S. KOLLER
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 52
- Thank you received: 1
Referring to the picture of Rick Huletts door panel, it appears that the top of the upholstery is wrapped over the door cardboard and is fastened to the back of the panel .
I would have assumed that the fabric at the top would have been glued to the door at that point and covered by the window frame since the window frame can not go over the panel itself. This would keep the door panel from pulling away from the doo at the top and eliminate any potential gaps along the window frame.
This is basically what they did in the L-29's.
I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Steve
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- A.S. KOLLER
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 52
- Thank you received: 1
Referring to the picture of Rick Huletts door panel, it appears that the top of the upholstery is wrapped over the door cardboard and is fastened to the back of the panel .
I would have assumed that the fabric at the top would have been glued to the door at that point and covered by the window frame since the window frame can not go over the panel itself. This would keep the door panel from pulling away from the doo at the top and eliminate any potential gaps along the window frame.
This is basically what they did in the L-29's.
I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Steve
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Tim Gilmartin
- Offline
- ACD Club Past President
-
Registered
- Posts: 147
- Thank you received: 57
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- john mccall
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 33
When I read the referenced engineering change and Josh Malks Timeless Classic appendix IV, I would state things a little differently than you and Tim. I would say, the company had a lot of unsold 810 cars and they decided to renumber them as 812 cars. The serial numbers on those unsold 810 cars ranged from 1001 to 1100 , which were originally show cars. They also had cars in branches that could have had serial numbers between 1101 and 1400. and cars still at the factory which could have had serial numbers between 1401 and 1525. Not all of the included serial numbered 810 cars would have been renumbered as some of them were already sold. As Josh stated, all 812 cars with serial numbers below 1526 were in fact renumbered 810s. Also the 812 serial number only matched the 810 number on cars that were originally show cars. The new 812 serial numbers were not necessarily between 1401 and 1525, but could have been anywhere between 1001 and 1525. For instance I own 812 1186H and it is a renumbered 810.
Using the way I read the engineering change and Josh's appendix, 812 1500A has to be a renumbered 810 because 1500 is less than 1526. Then again, I'm no spring chicken either.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mikespeed35
- Offline
- ACD Club Life Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 883
- Thank you received: 194
CORDiallyMike
Mike Huffman
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Jonathan Richards
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 189
- Thank you received: 24
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Tim Gilmartin
- Offline
- ACD Club Past President
-
Registered
- Posts: 147
- Thank you received: 57
Tim.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
It is most unfortunate that Rick Hulett's discoveries and files are not included within the current Judging Standards. The standards accept variations in trim colours and materials but not paint. Gordon Buehrig told members at various meets that special paint was on offer at extra cost. Folk Law says the same in Connersville. Custom built Cords could be made to order at the Factory which was a vast complex, so why not special paint to order at extra cost?
The Judging Standards should cover what did come out of the Factory and not dismiss variants.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- john mccall
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 33
Not a mistake on your part. When I saw the 812 for sale recently I said to myself, did they really start the numbering system over again for the 812's?
That really creates questions when registering a car as the serial number is usually the identifying number. Model numbers and names less important. It is not necessarily the most logical thing to do. Of course re-numbering 810's as an 812 wouldn't fly these days either.
I think the info in Ron's file is what i gave him years ago. The car came out of Canada as a stripped basket case. Someone had started to restore it and then apparently decided to use some of the parts for a different project.
I don't disagree that there were variations from the factory color and trim book. If you are restoring a car, the way you want it to look, that's fine. If you are going to show that car, you usually will need documentation if it doesn't meet the the normal accepted standards.
Rick had a lot of pics of stuff on original cars that wouldn't float with today's judging. Unfortunately re-discoverying that info will probably never happen.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mikespeed35
- Offline
- ACD Club Life Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 883
- Thank you received: 194
CORDiallyMike
Mike Huffman
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Tim Gilmartin
- Offline
- ACD Club Past President
-
Registered
- Posts: 147
- Thank you received: 57
Tim.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- [email protected]
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 94
- Thank you received: 7
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- [email protected]
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 94
- Thank you received: 7
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
Have you let Ron Irwin know about this "unknown Cord"?
The ACD Club Judges accept that interior variations could be ordered at extra cost from the Factory but not special paint. Rick Hulett documented numerous original cars with trim variations.
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- john mccall
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 33
To repeat, maroon cars per the paint book did not come from the factory with maroon interiors. but with a tan interior. Tan cars came with a maroon interior.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- [email protected]
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 94
- Thank you received: 7
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- john mccall
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 79
- Thank you received: 33
What color was your car originally? The paint and color book says a palm beach tan or black car would have a deep maroon broadcloth interior., combinations 30 and 32 respectively.
The paint book has rich maroon, thrush brown and clay rust external colors with a light tan broadcloth interior, combinations34,41 and 42..
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Terry Cockerell
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1333
- Thank you received: 301
T cockerell
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- [email protected]
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 94
- Thank you received: 7
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- johnmereness
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 767
- Thank you received: 159
JMM
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- uconn_1965
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Registered
- Posts: 368
- Thank you received: 97
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- 1748 S
- Offline
- Platinum Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 1738
- Thank you received: 134
Gary Parsons
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- [email protected]
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Senior Member
-
Registered
- Posts: 94
- Thank you received: 7
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.