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Gearbox issue

  • JIM.OBRIEN
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09 Dec 2021 02:01 #44417 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Sorry I'm still learning to type and typed George's email incorrectly. I just sent you the correct email. Some day I will learn how to use a computer.

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  • 1748 S
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08 Dec 2021 15:26 #44415 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
I sent a private message to you with George and lees phone numbers and states they live in. Just open your private messages and you should be able to see it.


Gary Parsons

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  • Tcheri
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08 Dec 2021 05:41 #44414 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Thanks Jim and Gary . Jim, the email you gave for George is not working. As I am overseas and not English native, I prefer to first send an email...

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08 Dec 2021 02:42 #44413 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Just sent you a PM with contact info

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  • Tcheri
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06 Dec 2021 22:48 #44404 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Can someone send me in PM the contact info of George Areakelian and Lee Foldenauer ? Many thanks

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  • pete kelly
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30 Nov 2021 19:47 #44366 by pete kelly
Replied by pete kelly on topic Gearbox issue
I believe this is only available to ACD Club members and is mailed to each member
every second year. There could be an online membership directory but I am not aware of it. Perhaps Joe Holderman or Tom Lee can fill us in.

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  • Tcheri
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30 Nov 2021 18:47 #44365 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Where can I find this "club directory" ? I looked in the bi-monthly bulletin or on the club web site, I didn't found ! Thanks

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26 Nov 2021 18:33 - 26 Nov 2021 18:38 #44333 by RubyDS
Replied by RubyDS on topic Gearbox issue
Hello Tcheri, you Can contact ACD Factory for parts
Last edit: 26 Nov 2021 18:38 by RubyDS.

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  • spiceagent11
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26 Nov 2021 16:22 - 29 Nov 2021 07:41 #44332 by spiceagent11
Replied by spiceagent11 on topic Gearbox issue
I have purchased all my transmission gears and synchro clutches from George Areakelian. He is in the club directory. The club has several members that recreate most all the transmission gears but... After talking with George in depth about how his gears are made and the heat treating process
vidmateapp.win Bluestacks.red 3movierulz
Last edit: 29 Nov 2021 07:41 by spiceagent11.
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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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24 Nov 2021 13:58 #44321 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Contact Lee Foldenauer for the parts. PM me if you need his contact info - he is in the directory. He has improved design shift forks and the sync rings as well as other parts.

Check the nut on the end of the shaft. It should be a hardened nut. Someone may have replaced it with a standard nut.

With the wear on the plunger check all the other interlock parts. They may be soft steel. I'd also pull the differential apart and check the bronze washers in there for excessive wear.

Yes ,it seems you found multiple problems that would cause the car to jump out of second gear.

When you reassemble the synchronizers spend extra time setting the release pressure. It makes the shifting much smoother.

Jim

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  • Tcheri
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24 Nov 2021 13:01 #44320 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Thanks to Pat for the document, I've now a full French gearbox workshop manual !

We noticed the following problems :

- 2nd/3rd fork really used and marked
- 2nd/3rd fork screw broken ! When removing the screw, the lower cone part was broken and still blocked in fork ! The fork had some play, explaining probably the wear
- 2nd synchro broken and marked
- 3rd synchro better, but still to be replaced
- Rail Shift Interlock 2nd / 3rd damaged, 2mm shorted than expected
- all gears ok

And finally, strange thing, the main shaft transmission nut was really loose.

I guess all this can explain that my 2nd gear was disengaging ?!

Most of those parts are available at ACD Factory, any thought ?
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  • Tcheri
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16 Nov 2021 15:30 #44287 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Done, thanks

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  • Pat Leahy
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15 Nov 2021 22:59 #44280 by Pat Leahy
Replied by Pat Leahy on topic Gearbox issue
PM me with your email address. I have it in a Google document format

Pat Leahy

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  • 1748 S
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15 Nov 2021 19:12 #44279 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
I have purchased all my transmission gears and synchro clutches from George Areakelian. He is in the club directory. The club has several members that recreate most all the transmission gears but... After talking with George in depth about how his gears are made and the heat treating process. Then grinding them to correct finish I decided his were the type I wanted. He also has some very good synchro clutch fingers for 1st, 2nd n 3rd and 4th gears. One needs some grinding to fit but easily done. These are the better type made long ago by an engineer working for I think GM in Detroit. Ask him if you can talk with him


Gary Parsons

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  • Tcheri
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15 Nov 2021 11:04 #44274 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
8.5 hours and the gearbox and the clutch are out.

Where is the best place to buy gearbox and clutch parts ?

We know already that clutch beariung and clutch are dead.
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  • Tcheri
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12 Nov 2021 11:14 #44258 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Yes, I know him, I was already in contact when I bought the car. His Facebook page FB Page

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  • Terry Cockerell
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12 Nov 2021 10:27 #44257 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Gearbox issue
As previously mentioned try contacting Perrin Youenn in France,
[email protected]

T cockerell

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  • Tcheri
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12 Nov 2021 08:22 #44255 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Thanks all for your replies.

I already bought the book as soon it was released :-)

My problem is the english language, quite technical, where I do not understand all words. And my mechanic is not speaking english at all !
Do you think it's possible to get the text from the club/writer to translate it in french ?

Thanks

Thierry

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  • 1748 S
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12 Nov 2021 03:43 #44254 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
ebay listing number is 265334231997

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11 Nov 2021 20:06 - 11 Nov 2021 20:07 #44252 by pete kelly
Replied by pete kelly on topic Gearbox issue
://www.ebay.com/itm/265334231997?hash=item3dc72713bd:g:6YEAAOSwdxphUyvp&vxp=mtr Add https before the colon
Last edit: 11 Nov 2021 20:07 by pete kelly. Reason: to try and get around the website

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  • 1748 S
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11 Nov 2021 19:04 - 11 Nov 2021 19:08 #44251 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationThis is the new club recommended transmission repair book. I just gor mine at the ACD festival in September. Its very good.




Sadly this site would not load from ebay but.... Use the ebay search 1936 1937 Cord parts and acessaries to find the listing. The club has several for sale on ebay.
Last edit: 11 Nov 2021 19:08 by 1748 S.

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11 Nov 2021 04:43 #44249 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
I agree with what Jim has posted here. Please buy the new transmission book the club has available. And do NOT operate this transmission. I mentioned the synchro springs and tiny ball bearings earlier. Its as Jim said. If the synchro over travels the balls pop out and the springs go with them. They end up getting ground up in the lower cluster gear doing horrible damage causing huge repair costs. The lower cluster gear is going to cost around $1600.00 U.S funds. All the transmission gears are available. I purchased most of mine from a club member named George Arakelian but several members have been making them too. I liked how George had his made. Doug Pray has newly rebuilt transmissions available now for $12,500.00 U.S. funds too.


Gary Parsons

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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11 Nov 2021 03:55 #44248 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Hi Theirry,
You are lucky the transmission hasn't blown up. Don't drive it or do any shifting second or third. The sync may over travel and all the balls and springs come out which can cause MAJOR problems.

The sync rings are worn out. The shift fork has too much play in it. The transmiussion is shifting way too easy so there are other problems. In short you need a complete rebuild.

Get the Transmission Manual. It can walk you thru the rebuild as long as you have a good machinist and someone who understands gearboxes. If you have questions as you go ASK!

JIm
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10 Nov 2021 16:01 #44245 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
Your are correct in that both synchro clutches are worn out on 2nd and third gears. I also suspect you have more internal issues in the transmission because the lockout does not appear to me locking out the shifting by hand. The clutch peddle must be pushed all the way to the floor for the transmission to shift like you are showing us. This is a great time to completely rebuild the transmission when its removed. My suspicions are the bearings, bushings and all the clutches need replacement. If you don't have the new club Cord transmission book on how to remove and rebuild this please get it. Its so very helpful. The synchro slides have lots of ball bearings with small coil springs pushing them outwards. So watch out when removing them. They can shoot out and you may never find them in your shop.


Gary Parsons.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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10 Nov 2021 10:43 #44244 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Gearbox issue
You could try contacting Perrin Youenn in Bretagne, France.
He has just about completed the restoration of a Custom Beverly Cord.
You guys could probably talk more easily to each other.
Just a suggestion.
[email protected]

T cockerell

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  • Tcheri
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10 Nov 2021 10:14 #44243 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Here some videos with the cover open.

There are some play on the second gear, don't know how normal is it !

Video 1
Video 2
Video 3
Video 4

We will anyway remove the gearbox as the 2nd and 3rd synchro are deads...

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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10 Nov 2021 02:07 #44241 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Hi Thierry,

In watching the video I think it is jumping out of gear which results in the cross shift lever moving some. When you depress the clutch it pulls it back into 2nd gear. I wonder if the transmission is getting all the way into second gear? I can't tell from the angle of the camera.

Either way there are some noises there that don't sound good. Please pull the main shift cylinder and pull the cover off the transmission and see what is going on in there.

Jim

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  • 1748 S
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09 Nov 2021 17:13 #44238 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
The sound made in the gear issue worries me. Please do as suggested by Jim and remove the transmission cover. Get some pictures on the gear arrangement for posting here. I suspect something wrong with the synchro clutch because it seems to make a grinding sound as the lever moves forwards disengaging the gear.


Gary Parsons

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  • Tcheri
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09 Nov 2021 16:20 #44237 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Hello,

thanks all for your replies.

Here is a new video : Video

I still don't know if the 2nd gear goes out because the plunger moves a bit, or is it due to the actuator ?

Any idea ?

Thanks

Thierry

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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27 Feb 2021 16:11 #42435 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Hi Thierry, I have watched the video several more times. I don't see any movement of the transmission as Gary thought. Also the problem t.Hills discribed is on 3rd gear, not second. The more I have thought about this problem I think your issue is in the gearbox. I would suggest you pull the main shift cylinder and take the cover off the box and look inside. Please post a couple of photos, especially looking straight down at the 2/3 syncronizer.
JIm
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  • t.hills
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23 Feb 2021 18:12 #42375 by t.hills
Replied by t.hills on topic Gearbox issue
As long as we're still in the troubleshooting phase, does the problem go away when the transmission cover is off? I have seen problems with the shift linkage hitting the transmission cover, not allowing full travel or engagement in gear. Just something else to consider. Check the bottom of the cover for wear marks/clearance.

Cheers, and good luck.

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  • 1748 S
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23 Feb 2021 16:49 #42372 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
During the video I thought I saw the transmission moving upwards as if the frame was broken where the front spring rests.


Gary Parsons

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  • mikespeed35
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23 Feb 2021 05:34 #42366 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Gearbox issue
What a good way to determine what
is going on.
CORDiallyMike

Mike Huffman

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  • Tcheri
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22 Feb 2021 16:05 #42349 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Moving forward on my problem, I am wondering if my problem is not related to the gear command.

When the problem occurs, on the second gear only, the gear does not disengage totally : I have an horrible gear noise, if I release the throttle, it comes back to normal. I decided to record the shifter and indeed, the gear command is moving. Here is a small video, look around 20 sec, you see the selector moving . On the video, the problem does not occurs (and I am wondering why as last day, it was the case)

Video

My question is to know if that play in the command can cause a temporary disengagement of the gear and if yes, how to solve that

Many thanks

Thierry

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  • Tcheri
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07 Feb 2021 18:25 #42154 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Yes, we will do that. I am located in Europe, Belgium

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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07 Feb 2021 15:20 #42152 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
HI Theirry,
I'm sorry to say but it sounds like the problem is in the transmission. You said you changed the oil in the transmission - did you strain the oil as it came out? did you find anything in the oil such as spring parts, balls, etc? Try removing the main shift cylinder and the transmission cover and take a look inside.

In the mean time no more driving, you can go from bad to a whole lot worse very quickly.

You may have told us before but where are you located?
JIm

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  • Tcheri
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07 Feb 2021 10:14 #42151 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Many thanks Jim. In the mean time, we put the plunger in place again, check the locking (and make sure it's well locked) and after a road test, the issue is still there. In fact, the gear does not disengage, it's a very hard noise of two gears touching each other but as soon I release the throttle, than it works again. So the 2nd gear is not disengage, the problem should be somewhere else... any other idea ? Can the command create this kind of issue ?

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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06 Feb 2021 22:40 #42144 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Hi Theirry,
Yours looks fine. THere is some slight wear but that should be enough to allow the transmission to jump out of gear. I'm going to try and attache a drawing I did years ago that will give you the dimensions.

Make sure the plunger is going in properly. First look in the hole if you can, you should see two cones (one from the top and one from the bottom) with their tips cut off meeting just below the center of the hole. I hope that makes sense.

If you push the plunger in manually you can feel in it hitting those rods and then pushing them apart. You want to make sure the plunger goes in as far as possible. From the wear it looks like it has been engaging properly. hook up the linkage and have someone step on the clutch. You should see the plunger pull out, when the clutch is released the plunger should go all the way back in. If it is working properly give it another road test and see what happens.

If you have problems or hear strange noises get it back in the garage quick.

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  • Tcheri
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06 Feb 2021 08:13 #42140 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Hi Jim, do you have the original dimensions the plunger should have ? Here are the pictures of my plunger

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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05 Feb 2021 15:47 #42122 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Hi Thierry,
Usually the end of the plunger is worn from the locking pins it engages. You can weld up the plunger and grind it back to the original deminsions. Also make sure the linkage is adjusted so the plunger goes all the way in and engages the locking pins.
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  • 1748 S
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05 Feb 2021 04:31 #42114 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Gearbox issue
I recall Stan sells these and all the needed coil springs. He's located in Wellington Kansas. Only available now two days a week thru email.


Gary Parsons

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  • Tcheri
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04 Feb 2021 16:36 #42107 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Hi Jim, seems indeed a problem of the plunger. Is there suppliers selling those ?

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  • Tcheri
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22 Dec 2020 06:43 #41800 by Tcheri
Replied by Tcheri on topic Gearbox issue
Jim, many thanks for that detailed answer. I will try to extract that plunger asap.

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20 Dec 2020 00:42 #41792 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Gearbox issue
Hi Thierry.
The two issues may be related. The clutch sticking on the is usually a linkage problem somewhere. Check the guide at the base of the firewall where the clutch pedal goes thru the floor. The other problem area is the shaft thru the frame.

For jumping out of second gear this was a known problem. The company added an interlock on the side of the transmission to prevent the transmission from jumping out of gear. The interlock plunger is connected to the clutch linkage. Disconnect the linkage at the plunger (pull the clevis pin) ansd slide the plunger out. Check the end to see if it is worn. The end is wedged shaped with a shelf behind the wedge. Many times the pins in the transmission wear grooves in the plunger and the pins no longer lock the transmission in gear. If there are grooves worn in either make a new one or weld up the old one and grind it back to the original shape. I'll see if I can find a photo of a warn plunger and post it.

When putting the plunger back in adjust the linkage so the plunger goes in as far as possible.

These two items will prevent the transmission from jumping out of gear unless there is a problem in the transmission.

Jim
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19 Dec 2020 12:24 #41789 by Tcheri
Gearbox issue was created by Tcheri
Hello,

after some few miles with my 812, I have a problem with my gearbox. Strange that it's just after I did an oil change with the recommended Lubriplate SPO-277... coincidence I suppose.

My problem is that after my second gear is engaged, above +/- 2000 rpm, the gear seems to disengage with a lot of pinion noise.

Is this a problem inside the gearbox or is it a typical problem of the command ?

All other gears works well. Note, and not at the same moment, that I had also an issue with my clutch pedal being stuck on the floor (after some mile on the highway). I believe that is not related.

Thanks

Thierry

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