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Yet Another With Transmission Problems

  • mikespeed35
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15 Aug 2021 21:39 #43713 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Maybe a place for the fish paper that was discussed in some past posts.
CORDiallyMike

Mike Huffman

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  • 1748 S
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14 Aug 2021 21:04 #43706 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Well a shifting Cord is a happy owner. Glad you "found" the issue. About 45 years ago I removed the same cover to look at whats there.I replaced the rubber seals. I do recall a gasket was removed from the aluminum housing groove that the steel shell sits in. I did NOT replace it but did use some black RTV. Mine is restored waiting to function again but you bet I'm going to look for dimples in the metal shell. Your findings is just what many of us need. You had a problem. Thru research and help here you fixed it. Another happy drive ahead....


Gary Parsons

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  • Fjderosier
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14 Aug 2021 16:49 #43703 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
A little update - got back at the car after getting side-tracked with another project. The transmission issues appear solved. Many thanks to Jim O'Brian for the very helpful recent articles on the shift switch, by the way. The wiring from switch to connector tested perfectly, repeatedly, so I left it alone. I had previously redone the lower harnesses with a new set from RI Wiring - and that all tested fine as well. I concluded the issue was at the solenoids. Following the rebuild outlined in the club bulletin, I went through it carefully. Solenoids all worked, rubber was pretty nice, and did a little clean up and put it back. This time, testing it out,I only had 3rd gear! Testing the solenoid in the car suggested a short at the brown wire terminals. Took it out again and everything tested perfectly on the bench. Back in the car, nothing worked, and the same short circuit seemed to be in play. Long story short was that the cover over the solenoids had dimpled slightly from tightening the bolts securing it and the underside of the cover where the solenoid wires are soldered on to the harness terminals was depressed enough to allow the terminals to contact the top of a solenoid. Some electrical tape on the top of the solenoids provided all gears on shifting in the garage, but lasted about 10 minutes on a road test as the terminals managed to pierce the tape and short things again. Did what I could to straighten out the cover and put new tape and a thin piece of cardboard across the tops of the solenoids. Transmission is now shifting nicely after repeated drives.

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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24 Jan 2021 23:06 #42005 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Thanks AL. I'm working my way thru the shifting components. Once I get done with those I wil finish up with a how the whole system works and a different approach to trouble shooting shifting problems. The ultimate goal to to have a shifting manual to go with the transmission manual.
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23 Jan 2021 13:37 #41989 by alsancle
Replied by alsancle on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Transmission problem thread seems like a great place to thank Jim for his wonderful multipart article on the subject in the last few newsletters. Just indispensable information to the 810/812 owner.

Thanks Jim!!!!!
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16 Jan 2021 22:30 #41951 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Hi Fred,
Regarding not having 4th gear. It sounds like there is a break in the yellow wire somewhere between the switch in the column and the solenoid bank. The pencil in the shift selector should make contact with the yellow wire and the red/green wire at the same time so if one is hot, the other should be hot. You might want to check the plug connection since that is the last thing you messed with.
Jim

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  • Fjderosier
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16 Jan 2021 19:07 - 16 Jan 2021 19:08 #41950 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Work and life and another automotive toy has kept me quite busy recently, but I have now also replaced the lower transmission harness (plug to trans) and confirmed all the connections from the plug to the terminals are functional. The car shifts very smoothly into and out of all gears except 4th. No motion laterally from neutral. The yellow wire does not seem to have power but the red/green tracer seems to now have current. On a different note, the defective (original) fuel sender was sent out to KM Lifestyle in Auburn, MA and nicely rebuilt - float was leaky, the resistor broken, and the bushing holding the float arm seized (which in turn was why the resistor broke). Great service and under a week turn-around!
Last edit: 16 Jan 2021 19:08 by Fjderosier.
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16 Jan 2021 18:53 #41949 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Thank you, Jack. The help is very much appreciated. I will call Peter at the number indicated.

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  • Jonathan Richards
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12 Jan 2021 06:33 #41916 by Jonathan Richards
Replied by Jonathan Richards on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Dear Sir: I have been following your posts regarding problems you have been/are experiencing with the transmission on your Cord phaeton. A friend of mine , Peter Morgan of Sheridan, MT (ACD Club Life Member #113 , would like to offer his assistance but has recently experienced difficulties with the ACD Club website. He has asked that I have you contact him by telephone at Area Code 406 / 842-7655 at your convenience. Good luck with getting the transmission sorted out. Jim O'Brien has already given you a wealth of good advice. Sincerely, Jack Richards #1080 in Missouri.

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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31 Dec 2020 13:30 #41846 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
HI Fred, If you don't have power on either the yellow or red/green wires tells me the selector switch on the steering column is not working properly. When you move the switch to the 4th gear position (and depress the clutch) you should have power on both the yellow and the red/green wire. First question is do you have the connector can at the bottom of the steering column? If so pull the connector apart and check the yellow and red/green wires there. I doubt both of these would fail at the same time, but I have seen stranger things. Also the connector is easier to check.

The next item to check is the selector switch. See the last two Newsletters (I think both of these are out) for articles on the selector switch for how to test it and how to pull it apart and rebuild it.

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  • Fjderosier
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30 Dec 2020 22:05 #41842 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Hi Jim - many thanks for your quick reply and comments. I pulled the switch, rechecked it, and then was careful to reinstall on the cylinder. I checked with the ohm meter moving the rod back and forth, and as it seemed to react appropriately, the cylinder was reinstalled and everything hooked back up. I now have R, 1, 2, and 3 shifting smoothly and consistently. No 4th, however, and test light doesn't show power at the either yellow or red/green wires.

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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30 Dec 2020 01:48 #41832 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Hi Fred, I'll bet the first problem is in the main shift cylinder (what you are calling the power cylinder). Check the neutral switch in the cylinder. Do this by disconnecting the wires at the solenoids. Connect the white wire to one side of an ohm meter and the blue and brown wire to the other side of the meter. Slowly move the rod all the way and then all the way out. You should read about 0 ohms all the time except in the middle. When the rod is centered front to rear you should read infinite resistance. If you don't have this the switch is probably installed wrong. When you install the switch the ends have to be on either side of the end of the lever in the cylinder. This holds the contacts open when the piston is in the middle of the cylinder. That should fix the not coming out of gear and the quivering.

You mentioned finding some debris under the plungers in the solenoids. Pull the copper lines that are on those solenoids and make sure they are clean. I have found these lines plugged. When reinstalling the lines do not use teflon tape on the threads. The seal is the flare on the tubing. The two parts of the fittings press the copper between them creating the seal. Putting teflon tape on the fitting on the copper line does not help and can create problems.

Use teflon tape on the threads between the fitting and the housing where the thread is the seal. When using the teflon tape leave the first thread bare and wrap 1 1/2 turns of tape only such that the tape will tighten when the fitting is threaded in. Also only tighten the fitting , if you have to loose it the teflon tape will leak. If you have to loosen the fitting, take it out and put new teflon tape on.

Jim

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  • Fjderosier
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29 Dec 2020 21:10 - 29 Dec 2020 21:12 #41828 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Rather than dealing with the clutch for now, I decided to explore the shifting further. I removed the shift cylinder and the solenoids. (Not an easy job to disconnect/reconnect all the copper tubing) The wiring inside the solenoids appeared fine. There was some debris on the bottom of the rubber plunger in the solenoid closest to the front of the car that would seemed to have prevented a good seal and that was cleaned; the next on in from the front had a small amount of debris that did not appear to hinder its operation (also cleaned) and the other 2 were nice and clean. Plunger springs seemed OK. The 3-wire harness to the power cylinder was in poor shape and as I have a new set of wiring for the transmission, I replaced it. The contacts for the power cylinder switch were cleaned and otherwise the switch appeared in good shape. I took the cover off the transmission and everything looked really quite nice and the oil level appeared good. All the vacuum fittings were cleaned and reassembled with some teflon sealant on the threads. I put the spacers under the power cylinder as previously mentioned in this thread, and the ground strap to the transmission and its attachment points cleaned. Starting the car up and trying the shifting out, the power cylinder appears to vacillate in neutral, moving back and forth about an inch with the clevis disconnected. It will shift into 2nd from neutral, but not 3rd. Seems like it will move into reverse and 4th from neutral, as well. Doesn't get out of any gear it shifts into or go back to neutral. Largely seems as it was before all this, though the quivering in neutral may be new:; however, I never observed the power cylinder with the engine operating and the clevis disconnected before. Any thoughts?
Last edit: 29 Dec 2020 21:12 by Fjderosier.

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13 Dec 2020 02:49 #41765 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Thank you everyone for all the replies. The weather was great today so I decided to take the car out - and the car decided it wasn't going to shift at all. So back to square one and looks like it's time to just rip everything out and restore/ rebuild it all.
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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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13 Dec 2020 01:17 #41764 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
HI Fred, Any auto machine shop can resurface your flywheel. For the clutch rebuild send it to Fort Wayne Clutch. They do Cord Clutches all the time and are very good.

For pulling the clutch figure 10 to 15 hours on a standard Cord if you have never done it before. Add a couple of hours for a car with external exhausts. For going back together figure 20 to 30 hours. Experience allows you to do a little better then the low end numbers however there has been 85 years of time, and someone else screwing things up so expect the unknown and problems along the way.

When you have the transmission out it is worth a few hours to check the syncro's an make sure they aren't too worn. This can be done by pulling the cover if you know what you are looking at. Maybe even check to see if the third gear thrust washer has been modified a couple of hours to pull the top shaft. If you have to go back into the transmission you have at least 25 to 30 hours of labor to get the transmission out and back in.

JIm

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  • uconn_1965
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12 Dec 2020 22:25 #41763 by uconn_1965
Replied by uconn_1965 on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
As a follow up to Gary,s suggestion of pulling both engine and transmission out together, it’s a little more involved than two bolts. Need to remove hood, disconnect exhaust system, fuel lines, electrical lines, tack cable, carb linkage, and six bolts for the motor mounts.

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  • 1748 S
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12 Dec 2020 22:09 #41761 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
It is as Cliff posted. A HUGE job but.. The trans can be removed without removing the engine. But honestly removing two more bolts gets the engine, trans n differential out in one piece. The Ayers book tells just about all you need to know about removal and repairs too. Buy it thru the Club store too.


Gary Parsons

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12 Dec 2020 21:57 #41760 by uconn_1965
Replied by uconn_1965 on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
When downshifting from 4th to 3rd, or 3rd, to 2nd, I always shift into neutral first. When shifting into first when stopping car, I shift into first at the last 1/2 turn of wheels prior to full stop. Changing clutch on Cord is a major job. Wheels off, ujoints pulled, radiator and cross support, water pump, all transmission controls and lines, bell housing, water , starter, front grille,etc. if you get my point, big job.. While in there, I highly recommend doing everything.....throw out bearing, resurface fly wheel, and new clutch and pressure plate. You only want to do this repair once.

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12 Dec 2020 02:01 - 12 Dec 2020 02:04 #41753 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Well, I've continued to play around in spare moments and have cleaned all contacts and lubricated in a few places. The clutch pedal was binding and that's now addressed, and excessive slack in clutch linkage adjusted as well. The car consistently goes into reverse, first, second, and fourth without issue now and into third without fuss 90% of the time. 3rd seems to have improved with just some driving following the various adjustments. Observing the shifting with the car on stands, the times it hangs up going into 3rd you can clearly see the lever trying to push it into 3rd but seemingly getting some resistance. But, this is now infrequent and just allowing a little more time on the shift seems to work. However, now that I can actually drive the car, downshifts into 2nd result in occasional grinding, sometimes even when doing so while stopped. Upshifts are all fine. The clutch is clearly worn and slipping. I have not yet put the washers, as noted earlier, in. Out of curiosity, what would the washers do? (The plane of the rod off the vacuum cylinder is nicely parallel to that of the cannister, which seems proper; adding height to the cannister would result in the rod coming off at a downward angle to plane of the cannister?) How difficult is a clutch job on a Cord and where is a good source for a new one (and possibly flywheel)?
Last edit: 12 Dec 2020 02:04 by Fjderosier.

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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11 Nov 2020 21:22 #41476 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Hi Fred, The gasket between the transmission and the cover is cork (use rubberized cork). I use 1/8" thickness and make my own from a sheet.

I agree with Cliff, use the head washers under the main shift cylinder stand. If you don't have any use two regular(medium weight, not the cheap thin ones) flat washer under each bolt. When you get done try shifting into third and see if the front edge of the main shift cylinder hits the transmission cover. If it does add another washer. I'm betting this is why you don't have third gear.

Good Luck, Jim
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  • uconn_1965
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11 Nov 2020 15:19 #41470 by uconn_1965
Replied by uconn_1965 on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Boy, times have changed. I just went to the Steele rubber site. You use to be able to buy single shock link bushings for 2 or 3 dollars each. Now Steele sells a set for more than $100.. I’ve finished putting together the last Cord I’ll probably ever be working on. I have some new bushing that you can have free of charge. Just PM me with you name and address and I’ll send them out to you.

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11 Nov 2020 14:12 #41466 by uconn_1965
Replied by uconn_1965 on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
I’ve used new shock link rubber bushing that you can get from Steele rubber parts and use them. Remember any repositioning of the shift cylinder either by replacing the rubber bushings or putting washers under the shift cylinder will require you to readjust the neutral position of Clevis pin in shift lever. I’ve always used the thick head bolt washers for the spacers for shift cylinder.

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  • Fjderosier
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11 Nov 2020 14:02 - 11 Nov 2020 14:04 #41465 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Looking at the mount for the vacuum cylinder, it is attached flush to the case: no spacers, washers, etc. The rubber bushings there look OK - not pristine but certainly not rotted or significantly cracked. So I guess some bits'll be coming apart shortly. What is the recommendation on the overall thickness (height) for the washers under the mount? Also, what's the nature of the gasket material, is it prone to getting destroyed by opening the case? (if it's fragile and thickness is such a critical issue, I won't open things up until I have a replacement in hand) Lastly, where can I get the rubber bushings? (if I am takings things apart, I might as well restore the elements at hand)
Last edit: 11 Nov 2020 14:04 by Fjderosier.

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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10 Nov 2020 01:07 #41455 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Fred, Take a look at the mount for the main shift cylinder. Are there washers under the stand? THere should be 3 thick washers under there. If not install two washers on each bolt, between the transmission and the triangular stand. Also make sure you don't have too thick of a gasket under the transmission cover.
Jim
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09 Nov 2020 23:49 #41453 by uconn_1965
Replied by uconn_1965 on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Another thing to check are the 2 rubber bushing that help attach the shift cylinder to the mounting bracket on top back of the transmission . I have seen where this rubber is “to soft” and does not make a solid attachment. The extra “play” or movement in shift cylinder prevents the transmission to shift properly.
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09 Nov 2020 23:28 #41452 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
I just now measured my spare gasket. Its 13 thousands thick. As already posted I too believe the dog bone piece on the cross shift rod might be loose on the shaft. Its just a few bolts and some copper tubes to remove this. Even if this turns out to be fine you have the opportunity to seal up the housing better than it is now. So many seap oil and cause driveway spots.

Gary Parsons

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09 Nov 2020 23:00 - 09 Nov 2020 23:01 #41450 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Hi Jim and Tom,

Thanks both for your replies. Yes, I took the bumpers, front cover off right at the start of the problems. Nothing is loose. Removing the pin from the clevis, I can move the transmission manually - if I have arranged to have the clutch depressed. Without the clutch depressed, it's nearly impossible to move the shifter. I do note that with the car idling in neutral, the wheels will spin as if driven; however, I can apply the brakes and the the car continues running fine and the transmission idles like any manual in neutral. I will see if I can check the gasket as mentioned.
Last edit: 09 Nov 2020 23:01 by Fjderosier.

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  • Roads2run
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09 Nov 2020 22:26 #41449 by Roads2run
Replied by Roads2run on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Fred, here's another point to add to Jim's idea of removing the front cover. The gasket between the front of the transmission and the housing for the shift rods and the "dogbone" should be extremely thin. A Cord cut away drawing specifies it as being a few thousanths thick. If it is too thick it will move the pivot point of the dogbone forward causing some shifts to be erratic as the dogbone hangs up in the shift rod notches. If my description is unclear feel free to call me, I'm in the front of newsletters and the directory. When properly sorted they are a joy to drive, and you will eventually get it right. Seems like I've seen your car years ago, a real beautiful Cord. Tom Hartz

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  • JIM.OBRIEN
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09 Nov 2020 02:59 #41442 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Hi Fred, I've been thinking about your shifting problem. I don't think it's electrical, at least not completely (you may have a couple of problems going on). You may have a mechanical problem.

Have you pulled the front bumper and transmission cover and checked the cross shift. Is something loose? The arm on the shaft tight? The shaft in the bushings sloppy? Try disconnecting the main shift cylinder from the cross shift and moving the cross shift around.

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08 Nov 2020 05:15 #41438 by DONALD.ELMER
Replied by DONALD.ELMER on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Wow... as a glutton for punishment and someone who also has a Cord on a bucket list, this thread has been edifying . After reading this, a sane person would run away as fast as possible... but for me, the lure of such a Cord remain intense. Who knows, I may be looking for help and counsel one of these days.
I have owned other cars that I characterize as a "tinkerer's delight" so the mysteries of a Cord is all the more alluring.

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  • Terry Cockerell
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07 Nov 2020 06:53 #41433 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Regarding serial numbers for phaetons, the earliest listed in Josh Malks' book Cord 810 / 812 , The Timeless Classic is 810 1926 H
With you gear selection problems you will have to check everything in the circuit and conduct test trials. Mine had a few problems due to a worn keyway on the cross shaft at the front of the gearbox. It was tight when cold but could move a bit when warmed up upsetting the syncronization.
Be patient, you will get there eventually.

T cockerell

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07 Nov 2020 02:10 #41432 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Well, making some progress. Fixed the oil leaking copiously from the fuel pump and fixed the carb issues as well. Fixed a poor connection of the red wire at the clutch switch (wire was basically loose in the bullet connector). Up on stands, the car will now consistently shift into and out of reverse, 1st, 2nd, and 4th. It appears to only occasionally go to 3rd. Taking a bit of a cautious test drive confirms reverse, 1st, 2nd. While driving, it hesitates on going into 4th sometimes - depressing the clutch with the selector in 4th 2 or 3 times usually got it to go. No 3rd while driving - stays in 2nd or 4th but won't shift up/down to 3rd. it will go 2 to 4 and back, however. Goes into neutral. No signs of visible problems with the blue wire suggested to be an issue per the trouble-shooting guide, but I'll try to take a closer this weekend. given some of the other interesting comments made here, a question comes to mind: what is the earliest serial number for the phaetons?

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07 Nov 2020 02:10 #41431 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Well, making some progress. Fixed the oil leaking copiously from the fuel pump and fixed the carb issues as well. Fixed a poor connection of the red wire at the clutch switch (wire was basically loose in the bullet connector). Up on stands, the car will now consistently shift into and out of reverse, 1st, 2nd, and 4th. It appears to only occasionally go to 3rd. Taking a bit of a cautious test drive confirms reverse, 1st, 2nd. While driving, it hesitates on going into 4th sometimes - depressing the clutch with the selector in 4th 2 or 3 times usually got it to go. No 3rd while driving - stays in 2nd or 4th but won't shift up/down to 3rd. it will go 2 to 4 and back, however. Goes into neutral. No signs of visible problems with the blue wire suggested to be an issue per the trouble-shooting guide, but I'll try to take a closer this weekend. given some of the other interesting comments made here, a question comes to mind: what is the earliest serial number for the phaetons?

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  • Jonathan Richards
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21 Oct 2020 00:54 #41231 by Jonathan Richards
Replied by Jonathan Richards on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
This post to this fascinating study in Cord Model 812 automotive archaeology is primarily to point out and praise the amazing mind and memory of member "Roads2run" [ i.e. Tom Hartz of Nashville, Indiana ]. A partial explanation of Tom's recall skill is the fact that he once owned standard phaeton Serial # 1887, only two numbers earlier than the car under discussion/examination. #1887 had been owned back in 1977 by one J. Aylward of Massachusetts. At that time it had been converted to rear drive By the time of Tom's ownership (or during his ownership) the original engine #FB2546 had been replaced by #FB2396 and external exhaust had been added. Throughout Ron Irwin's records the CMC Body number remained unchanged as C 91 527.
All of the above is interesting but a reference to Engineering Changes @ Page 32 shows an entry by F. E. Winchester dated 2-11-37 showing that car with S#1886 was the first standard car utilizing the new generator K11233 and associated changes in voltage regulator , attaching bracket for generator and new generator belt and cable assembly. This was just one chassis ahead of #1887 which Tom Hartz had owned.
Space and time this evening does not allow more detailed discussion but I{ am struck by the large number of phaeton bodies Cords assembled during the spring of 1937 and the running sequential nature of their production. This is a topic for another day. Carry on , Jack Richards #1080 in Missouri.

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  • Roads2run
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20 Oct 2020 22:48 #41230 by Roads2run
Replied by Roads2run on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
This is only anecdotal evidence, but I think car no. 1886 was the first car with the later style generator. Obviously someone could have switched generators, but this might help with your question. I'm saying this from memory as I gave my Cord materials away and can't check the engineering notes, where it is noted. Also, the wiring holes in the firewall are different for the two styles of generator. Hope this helps. Tom Hartz

Roads2run
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20 Oct 2020 22:26 #41229 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
[email protected]
919 561 4894

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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20 Oct 2020 21:28 - 20 Oct 2020 21:29 #41228 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
I cleaned the stub frame a bit more. The naked eye struggles to decide what the numbers actually are and probably explains why the Commonwealth of Virginia riveted a tag on the body saying the serial number is 1339 under the ownership of William Pettit. But, enlarging the photo with this latest cleaning really seems to confirm "889" are the correct stamped numbers, not "339". If you look at the center section of the digits, you can clearly see the stamping curving up and down to form the 2 loops of an '8', even though the full loop is not truly visible. The upper loop of the digits also seems to curve a bit further down, more akin to an '8' than a '3', especially in the first digit. I am convinced the stamped digits are 889... Now, what to do with my DMV is the more difficult question as I am loath to perpetuate the error, but afraid DMV will be a royal pain. They have been nearly universally problematic on all my various collector cars over the years.
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20 Oct 2020 21:12 #41225 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Hi Bill thanks - and would love to get together!

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19 Oct 2020 04:09 #41217 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
I am in Raleigh as well. If you'd like to get together let me know. My email address is in the directory William Coye

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award

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18 Oct 2020 21:37 #41215 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
I concur this is stub frame 889. Sometimes shining a flashlight on the sides of the numbers reveals more.
Now the archaeology of the car serial numbers starts. But no matter... You have a Cord


Gary Parsons

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18 Oct 2020 20:30 #41214 by Jonathan Richards
Replied by Jonathan Richards on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Dear Sir: You have done a very careful and skillful job of removing the impediments to viewing the "stub frame" numerals. NO, I am NOT saying that someone other than the factory stamped these three digits in the side rail. They size and shape of the numerals appear to be of the factory type and the location of the numerals within the rectangle outlined by four rivet heads appear to be proper. The MASTER CORD LIST earlier referred to shows at Page 60 a standard ( i.e. non-supercharged) Phaeton with Serial # 1889H , Engine # FB2456 and CMC Body# C 91 532. The owner of this car is shown as of 1966 as being one J. Anthony of Ohio. He does not appear in the current membership roster. I am inclined to believe that the stub frame #s you have revealed are 889. Perhaps you can complete a thorough removal of the remaining paint/rust/grease to clarify this. I am hopeful that our able Certification Supervisor Jim O'Brien will weigh in on this bit of automotive archaeology. He has seen countless stub frame stampings and may be able to shed some light on your quandry. Best regards, Jack Richards.

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18 Oct 2020 17:16 #41211 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Actually, maybe I need to correct myself. Blowing up the photo and looking at the centers of the first 2 digits appears like the circle is curving both up and down from the center. I've tried to point this out on the attached picture. Thoughts? Is this correctly '889'?
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18 Oct 2020 16:59 #41210 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Thanks for the information. I am a more than a little interested to know what "made up" might mean... I checked the R stub frame - there seemed like something under the paint in the area indicated and so I very carefully, given the advice, removed the paint with some acetone and paper towels. There does indeed appear to be three digits stamped after removing the paint. They seem to fairly clearly be 339. I suppose either or both of the '3's could be '8's but to the best I can tell, it's "339". So are you saying someone other than the factory stamped the frame? I've attached a picture of what I found...
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18 Oct 2020 01:23 #41205 by Jonathan Richards
Replied by Jonathan Richards on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Dear Sir: Happy you have acquired a Cord and have I trust joined the ACD Club. You are correct that Josh Malks' first book CORD 810/812 - THE TIMELESS CLASSIC does not show your car it does show a Model 810 Westchester with Serial # 810 1339A at page 247. This not your car. The MASTER CORD LIST maintained by Cord 810/812 Historian Ron Irwin of California does show your car at Page 58 under the 812 Phaeton listings. The Serial #1339H is shown as having Engine #FB2454 and CMC Body # C 91 368. Ownership by W. Pettit of Virginia commenced in 1962. Asterisks appear on both Serial and Body numbers indicating these numbers to be "made up numbers" not issued by the factory. If legible you may want to determine the "stub frame" number from the right front side rail. This can sometimes be found within a rectangular area just aft of the right front shock absorber. The digits will be lightly stamped and are about 1/2 inch high and disappear with the first coat of paint or rust deposit. Be careful not to use a too aggressive tool as the stamping is shallow. The stub frame # is always 1000 lower than the serial #. Good luck with your Cord.
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16 Oct 2020 01:23 #41188 by JIM.OBRIEN
Replied by JIM.OBRIEN on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Hi FJ, Congratulations on your "new" Cord! It sounds like you are going to be on the steep part of the learning Curve on shifting. First off here is a link to the wiring diagram for the shifting system:
automaven.com/Technical/_Gearshift_Wiring/wiring_diagram8.pdf
Get this printed out and keep several copies, including one in the glovebox of the Cord. Studying it should answer a lot of your questions and help you in the troubleshooting.

It sounds like you are having engine troubles, while you are checking take some vacuum readings. You should be over 20"Hg, at idle, if not you need to tune up the engine..

You asked about the shift switch on the column...in the last Newsletter is an article on taking it apart and inspecting it. In the next Newsletter will be an article (if I get it done in time) on putting it back together and testing it. I'm working my way thru the shifting system, one component at a time.

AS you are having trouble with the shifting give me a call, my number is in the directory and inside the front cover of the NL. I'll be happy to walk you thru getting it shifting properly.
Jim
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16 Oct 2020 00:48 - 16 Oct 2020 00:54 #41186 by Fjderosier
Replied by Fjderosier on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Thank you everyone for the replies - very much appreciated! I uncoupled the linkage at the transmission and manually moved the transmission to neutral. After this, I was able to confirm the unit moved into first, neutral, and then reverse - and then stopped with any further exploration as there now seem to be issues with the carb as fuel is coming out from a number places it shouldn't! (Frankly, I am happier to deal with that) In any event, progress, perhaps, in that power does appear to be going through the selector switch and the problem lies elsewhere. To answer the question about the car itself, it is a phaeton with chassis, body, and engine numbers 1339H, C-91 368, and FB2454 respectively. I believe it will be known to the the club as it was formerly part of the Pettit collection, but it is not listed in the Cord Complete book and is suggested to be an unsold '36 sold as a '37. I am located in Raleigh, NC
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15 Oct 2020 13:22 #41179 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Welcome to the club and being a new owner. Please tell us about your car. Where it came from. Convertible or sedan.. Who owned it before you and where are you located. Sometimes another member lives near you and can help with issues.
The trans issue can be daunting. But careful step by step will fix it easily.I suggest you disconnect the trans shifting arm from the front of the trans and then shift the car thru the gears. That may point to the vacuum can being stuck or a bad solenoid in the passenger side solenoid block. There are 4 separate solenoids in that rectangular piece. In all honesty it sounds like your clutch cutout switch might be out of adjustment but do not start moving it yet until other better members chime in with advice. Jim Obrien is VERY GOOD with these trans issues.
As for the gas tank I too believe the float has a hole in it so it fills with gas and sinks. They are easy to repair but just replacing it works the best. Mine has too many cracks in the brass cylinder. I tried soldiering it but it got too heavy. I have not replaced it yet but I have it apart on the bench if you want pictures. Just make sure the ignition key is turned off before working removing it. An electrical spark can ruin your day.
Everyone would love to see pictures of your car too


Gary Parsons
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15 Oct 2020 09:54 - 15 Oct 2020 09:54 #41178 by Terry Cockerell
Replied by Terry Cockerell on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
Members of the ACD Club are currently working on an updated version of the booklet called Cord Model 810 -812 Transmission Manual by Sid Ayres.
I suggest you contact Jim O'brien in Pennsylvania, for the new book.
[email protected]
It's a good idea not to rush in but be patient and do things one step at a time, that is how I sorted mine out.
Good luck from Australia.

T cockerell
Last edit: 15 Oct 2020 09:54 by Terry Cockerell. Reason: Spelling error.
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15 Oct 2020 01:36 #41176 by wcoye
Replied by wcoye on topic Yet Another With Transmission Problems
An idea but may not solve your problem completely. When I had similar issues I pulled the pneumatic "can" opened it up carefully, cleaned it and put new lube on the piston. When the old lube is crudied up it gets thick and hard and piston jambs up. Before you go on a hunt for a sending unit check the float. They can get holes in them. When I replaced my float I only spent a few bucks on Amazon for a plastic replacement. A little 22 gauge brass wire to secure it and gas gauge works perfectly.

Bill Coye
Westchester 2240A
Brag line: Winner of the
2014 Hillsborough Concurs Strother MacMinn award
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15 Oct 2020 00:45 #41175 by Fjderosier
Yet Another With Transmission Problems was created by Fjderosier
Hi everyone - new to the forum and to the ACD club! After many years of lots of different cars, I finally gave in to checking off an item on the bucket list and got a Cord. The car arrived after some delay last week and was just as stunning and beautiful to my neighbors as it must have been in 1937. Pity it isn't drivable. Right off truck it was only occasionally deciding to shift. Drove 2 miles to get some gas and then parked it in the garage. Before I shut it off, I tried moving it through the gears. Got it into a few and then it got stuck in 4th. Currently it remains in 4th and will not go into any other position or out of 4th. Looking at the trans with the cover off, the lever is all the way to the right (passenger side) and back. All the visible wiring is showing some age but intact. I've cleaned and tightened the contacts. The red wire at clutch switch was largely detached from its bullet connector - that was repaired to no effect. The switch itself is functioning well and current gets up the red wire to the 10-pin connector at the base of the steering column. All the wiring visible going up the column and into the selector appear quite nice. The troubleshooting advice here and in the service bulletins suggest not going into/out of any gear is due to the red wire. Given that, it would suggest I could have a bad 10-pin connector, bad wiring in the column and/or broken selector switch. So, I have a number of questions:
1) How/where do I get a copy of the transmission guide mention in a few posts?
2) Are there there any vendor lists for parts kept by the club?
3) Are there factory parts and service manuals for the car (a quick look did not turn up anything)?
4) If the column needs to come out, steering wheel off, etc, as the next steps, any recommendations as to best way to do so?
5) How does the selector mechanism come apart - it's not immediately self-evident to me and I don't want to add insult to injury
6) On an entirely unrelated note, the fuel gauge is also inoperable, but appears to be the sender - any good source or universal sender to recommend?

Sorry if I am repeating questions answered elsewhere, but the forum search function was of limited help and I am (mostly) inclined to ask questions before just tearing things apart. :) Thanks in advance!
Fred

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