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Engine Won't Crank

  • mikespeed35
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27 Jul 2019 03:37 #37877 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Engine Won't Crank
Did you check to see if the Bendix was stuck in the ring gear before you removed it. If it was, it will happened again until you discover "WHY".
CORDiallyMike

Mike Huffman
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  • 1748 S
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19 Jul 2019 03:26 #37822 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Engine Won't Crank
Really pleased to read you have ignition.Using the spare battery to test it shows lots.If the bendix spring was broken your gear would not retract when you take power off the starter. Still wonder what the problem was because you have not "found" it yet..But its working.


Gary Parsons

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  • rlwardne
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18 Jul 2019 20:18 #37819 by rlwardne
Replied by rlwardne on topic Engine Won't Crank
Hooray! If you don’t have the manuals and service manual you can buy thru ACD Museum and maybe Curt. Also I always looking for early Motors manuals.

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  • kenswheels
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18 Jul 2019 19:10 #37816 by kenswheels
Replied by kenswheels on topic Engine Won't Crank
Well, it only took 5 pages, but she WORKS!
I took the starter off, tested it with my spare battery. It spun.
Put everything back together and BAM, we have ignition! (A slight Apollo 11 reference!).
I didn't take the starter apart to see if a spring was broken, but for now I'll take my chances.
Thanks again to all of you in the club who held my hand during this learning experience. You're all the BEST!

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  • Curt Schulze
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18 Jul 2019 19:10 #37815 by Curt Schulze
Replied by Curt Schulze on topic Engine Won't Crank
You are right Gary. It may well be in the starter. So many 're-builders' replace the brushes and the bendix , paint it up pretty ans call it done.
When you can drive your car thru the ACD parade at 102 degrees , shut it off down on the square , wait a few minutes and it fires off right away , the starting system is in good order.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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  • 1748 S
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18 Jul 2019 17:57 #37814 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Engine Won't Crank
Am still thinking something is wrong in the starter. But plenty of great suggestions given here.
Bendix is the name brand but its used so much referring to the spring drive inside the starter. What happens internally is as the starter just begins to spin the gear is pushed towards the flywheel ring gear. Once the gears mesh the engine begins to rotate. When the engine is running releasing the key to the run position or the startix gets the message from the generator making power. It tell the startix to cut the flow of power to the starter.Then the bendix spring pulls the starter gear back to a normal position.Sometime this spring breaks. That can cause the starter gear to drag or jam into the flywheel gear.
Being a new person asking questions is nothing to be ashamed of.We were ALL that your place one time or two. Information is power.The more information you have , the more power you have to make decisions.


Gary Parsons
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  • rlwardne
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18 Jul 2019 17:54 #37813 by rlwardne
Replied by rlwardne on topic Engine Won't Crank
Forgot about those rivets. Mine were really good, but the cables were burning up.
Wish you would take photos of the cables, and do check the grounds in the chassis and motor..

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  • Curt Schulze
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18 Jul 2019 17:16 #37812 by Curt Schulze
Replied by Curt Schulze on topic Engine Won't Crank
There are two grounding cables; one from the battery to the frame &one from the bell housing to the frame clean? Are the fasteners new ? Is the frame CLEAN on both sides? Are the lead washers there? Is the connection on the bell housing clean? Are all of the cables new and clean? If you need cables I stock them.
Grounding within the starter motor is suspect. With age the rivets that connect the grounding brushes to the starter end plate build up a resistance.
( have a fix for that) That starter pulls 600+ amps .

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt
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  • rlwardne
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18 Jul 2019 16:32 #37811 by rlwardne
Replied by rlwardne on topic Engine Won't Crank
In this case starter drive is referred to as the Bendix. It has the spring and gear that engages the flywheel on the end of the
Starter shaft

You be correct in thinking that Bendix is a parts
Manufacturer

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  • kenswheels
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18 Jul 2019 15:45 #37810 by kenswheels
Replied by kenswheels on topic Engine Won't Crank
Thanks for the quick response.
Sorry to such a rookie, but what is the "Bendix"? I've seen that term referring to several parts.

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  • rlwardne
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18 Jul 2019 15:36 #37809 by rlwardne
Replied by rlwardne on topic Engine Won't Crank
I would loosen the starter.
If Bendix is stuck you'll hear it snap back. At this point I’d
pull the starter and make sure Bendix is not broke and use jumper cables from a 6v battery and see how she spins.
Rick the car with it out like in 2 gear and see if motor moves.
Remember the car is
Positive ground if wired originally

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  • kenswheels
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18 Jul 2019 15:23 #37808 by kenswheels
Replied by kenswheels on topic Engine Won't Crank
I tried "starting" it from the Startix button this morning and found the cable to the starter and that end of the starter getting warmer and warmer.
Bad or stuck starter?
The connections are all tight with no corrosion.
Best way to check this would be? Mike's idea sounds reasonable if I can get under the car. It currently sits stuck half way up my lift ramp.
By "clutch plate" and "Bendix" is this referring to the starter? Or is there a plate under the actual clutch?

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  • 1748 S
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18 Jul 2019 13:50 #37807 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Engine Won't Crank
Heat in a battery cable or terminal end can mean whats said above but.. Feeling the connections for heat tells you thats where the resistance is either because of corrosion or bad connection. A bad connection at the battery causes more amps draw so more heat is made.Best use the back of your fingers when touching a suspect hot wire like this. Using the top not the ends of your fingers will cause a quick pull away if its hot or you make contact with the electricity.Our natural reflex is to curl our fingers away from the problem. Think back if you ever touched an electrified fence for livestock. Your hand naturally grabs the wire because the muscles react that way. Touching with the back of the hand your muscle reaction is away from the wire.An old electrician taught me that so long ago. Wished I had known about it when I was 16 working in a welding sweatshop. My feet were wet and I got ahold of an electrical controller to spin a drum for painting.I could not let go but eventually fell backwards breaking the contact. A co-worker was running to knock me clear of this electrocution...
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  • rlwardne
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18 Jul 2019 04:44 #37806 by rlwardne
Replied by rlwardne on topic Engine Won't Crank
He said above rocking the car wouldn’t rock the motor. This could be even more serious

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  • mikespeed35
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18 Jul 2019 03:59 #37805 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Engine Won't Crank
Before you remove the starter take the clutch inspection
cover off under the car and make sure the Bendix drive is not stuck into the flywheel gear. A quick and cheap way to check for too much draw is to see if the wire gets very hot If so there is too much resistance in whatever the wire feeds. If the cable too the starter gets very hot, for example,it would tell you the starter is trying to work but for some reason can't.
CORDiallyMike

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  • pete kelly
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17 Jul 2019 23:08 #37804 by pete kelly
Replied by pete kelly on topic Engine Won't Crank
Ken
Give me a call on the number I sent you under the private messages.
Pete

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  • 1748 S
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17 Jul 2019 22:26 #37803 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Engine Won't Crank
You should not have seen nothing but sparks when you connected the battery directly to the starter.Now it sounds like your starter has failed. Remove the starter and find a good mom n pop starter re-builder that can check this out.


Gary Parsons

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  • kenswheels
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17 Jul 2019 20:03 #37802 by kenswheels
Replied by kenswheels on topic Engine Won't Crank
Thanks again Pete.
I've tried a couple of things now. My amp gauge (Fluke) showed nothing with the ING on, (-) probe on the out wire to the starter and the button depressed.
Also I tried bypassing the Startix by putting battery power (-) directly to the starter. Nothing but sparks.
I tried rocking the car in gear but it didn't seem to turn the engine at all.
I SO appreciate your guidance!
Ken

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  • pete kelly
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17 Jul 2019 18:51 #37801 by pete kelly
Replied by pete kelly on topic Engine Won't Crank
Buy a small amp gauge that just is held up to the heavy wire leading to the starter. It should show several hundred amps when the button is pushed. If it shows amperage then make sure the bendix is not jambed in the ring gear. If no amperage check the wires all the way from the battery to the starter and the battery to ground for corrosion or a poor connection. Also check the wire from the frame to the engine bolt. It could be a bad starter with high or no amperage draw.
Can you turn the engine over by rocking the car in gear; if the bendix is stuck that could release it?
Let us know how you make out.
Pete

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  • 1748 S
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17 Jul 2019 18:47 #37800 by 1748 S
Replied by 1748 S on topic Engine Won't Crank
To check battery draw you need a meter that lays over the main battery cable. Then you try to start the engine. When the engine cranks or wont crank the meter shows the amp draw thru the cable. The meters I'm most familar with are round and the back part is like U channel that slips over the cable.


Gary Parsons

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  • kenswheels
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17 Jul 2019 17:53 #37798 by kenswheels
Replied by kenswheels on topic Engine Won't Crank
Thanks Pete.
I'm sorry to ask, but could you be more specific? How & where do I check the draw?
To bypass the startix, do I connect the battery directly to the starter?
The condition of the cables...Corrosion, or ?
Thanks for your help!

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  • pete kelly
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17 Jul 2019 17:50 #37797 by pete kelly
Replied by pete kelly on topic Engine Won't Crank
Check the draw when the startix button is pushed.
Bypass the startix
Check the condition of the ends of the cables
Pete

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  • kenswheels
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17 Jul 2019 17:14 #37796 by kenswheels
Replied by kenswheels on topic Engine Won't Crank
Well, new Optima battery installed and nothing changes. Startix still clicks with the button pushed or when toggle is moved down to STX.
I'm at a loss.
Like I said earlier, it seemed to fade to this point, with the last few starts delayed and becoming weaker, but at least it did crank.
Any more ideas now that the battery has been ruled out?

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  • johnmereness
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16 Jul 2019 23:15 #37788 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic Engine Won't Crank
I will lean toward Mike's advice - the button is a direct contact of power - no button start and most likely no battery to start car with

JMM

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  • mikespeed35
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14 Jul 2019 04:00 #37771 by mikespeed35
Replied by mikespeed35 on topic Engine Won't Crank
Before you get too concerned about changes, have you had the battery load tested? Almost any parts store can do that for you free. Have the battery fully charged before having it tested. Might save you a bunch of needless work.
CORDiallyMike

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  • yorkgulch
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13 Jul 2019 21:00 - 13 Jul 2019 21:03 #37767 by yorkgulch
Replied by yorkgulch on topic Engine Won't Crank
On the battery auto parts stores used to load test the batteries but don't know is they can do 6 volts anymore. With a starter draw meter that you put on the cable you can tell how much the starter is drawing but dont think you will get a reading till you get past the clicking. The 2 battery set up is battery 1 positive to battery 2 positive to ground on positive ground cars. Battery 1 negative to battery 2 negative then to start it and starter. This in parallel. You get twice the amps but are still at 6 volts. I like adjusting the starting first. But have never had to mess with one.

Auburn 851
Last edit: 13 Jul 2019 21:03 by yorkgulch. Reason: Typo
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  • rlwardne
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13 Jul 2019 20:07 #37766 by rlwardne
Replied by rlwardne on topic Engine Won't Crank
Two may give you better staying power, my guess with the lights on and driving are you showing a charge?It maybe with the lights on the third brush in the generator needs to be moved. The regulation on these is not the greatest some go to later voltage regulator. I have read that some put a rheostat on the field wire and output can be adjusted to driving conditions from in the car. Mine has headlights and pilot lights. Seriously thinking of going to 6v alternator if i do much after dark cruising. Third brush set to show a slight charge while motoring may be your best bet for now.
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  • kenswheels
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13 Jul 2019 19:20 #37763 by kenswheels
Replied by kenswheels on topic Engine Won't Crank
Hmmm...On the topic of batteries, I've noticed mine not holding a charge very long and when traveling with the lights on I come home to a very weak battery, even after only about 1/2 hour drive.
Any recommendations on a replacement battery? I've read about using 2 Optima 6V batteries in parallel. I'm not sure what that means. Thanks!

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  • rlwardne
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13 Jul 2019 18:48 #37762 by rlwardne
Replied by rlwardne on topic Engine Won't Crank
Possibly battery is no good. You can have six volts but a bad cell.
Are your cable. Like 00 and not like 12v car battery size. I bought a car which had small cable and eventually it would spin the motor. Changed to large cable and walla.
Make sure Bendix is not locked on to ring gear too.

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  • kenswheels
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13 Jul 2019 18:24 #37761 by kenswheels
Replied by kenswheels on topic Engine Won't Crank
Thanks John. I tried the button but got the same click. I'm not sure how to adjust the Startix, but am willing to try with the right guidance.

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  • johnmereness
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13 Jul 2019 16:38 - 13 Jul 2019 16:39 #37756 by johnmereness
Replied by johnmereness on topic Engine Won't Crank
I am by far from an expert on these (see Cord people becoming experts though as Cord put them in the thick of the heat from the exhaust). If you think there is nothing wrong with the starter, then push the button on side of Startix. if button works then you may need to adjust the throw on the Startix contact (too far and it will not work and too close and it will engage when hot). My guess is an adjustment issue.

JMM
Last edit: 13 Jul 2019 16:39 by johnmereness.
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  • kenswheels
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13 Jul 2019 16:34 #37755 by kenswheels
Engine Won't Crank was created by kenswheels
Hey everybody.

Got home last night from showing off my 852 and when I was putting it away, the STX became more and more non-responsive until finally now all I get is a clicking noise from the Startix. The battery is fully charged. Any ideas as to where I should look first? The Startix itself is a rebuilt one from about 2 years ago. Thanks for any advice you can offer.

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