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851/852 Speedster Rear Bumper Arm Grommets - Placement

  • AuburnNut
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25 Sep 2020 16:08 #41057 by AuburnNut
John - I am planning to do that on all 4 fenders, but thank you for the suggestion anyway. Much appreciated

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  • johnmereness
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25 Sep 2020 16:05 - 25 Sep 2020 16:09 #41055 by johnmereness
While there you may want to take out the bolt at the tail end of the fender and put a few slits in the fender welt so it better contours to the curvature of the body

JMM
Last edit: 25 Sep 2020 16:09 by johnmereness.
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25 Sep 2020 14:32 - 25 Sep 2020 14:33 #41053 by AuburnNut
and this new photo below shows the finished square tube support with the face attached. Once this was done, the rubber grommet sits nicely against the body of the car, and no longer fights with the angle of the square tube so fitment is excellent

Last edit: 25 Sep 2020 14:33 by AuburnNut.

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25 Sep 2020 14:28 - 25 Sep 2020 15:07 #41052 by AuburnNut
And in the photo below, you can see the surface is now parallel to the body after I cut with an angle grinder

Last edit: 25 Sep 2020 15:07 by AuburnNut.

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25 Sep 2020 14:23 #41051 by AuburnNut
The issue of fitment concerns how the square bar (that you bolt into) juts out of the body and how the face of the bolting surface sits relative to the shape of the rear of the body. In my case, to ensure good fitment, I have re-welded the angle of the bolt surface to be parallel to the rear of the body of the car. It is difficult to describe in words. Here is what I originally had. Note the bumper support bar surface (where it bolts to the square tube) was originally perpendicular. This same photo shows a green piece of tape, which is where i cut the bar, so it became parallel to the shape of the rear of the body. After doing tis fitment of the rubber grommets was excellent.

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10 Sep 2020 14:58 - 25 Sep 2020 15:09 #40938 by AuburnNut
Curt
My grommets were made in the mid to late 70's and came with my Speedster that was built by Elegant Motors. Like most things Elegant Motors, they tended to be pretty high quality reproductions and certainly better than most other replica manufacturers. However, I have a good friend that has a standard Glenn Pray speedster, and I believe he replaced his incorrect Glenn Pray cylinder shaped rubber grommets and support with the more correct square ones from Metro Moulded Parts. I will ask him to comment on quality and fitment......I know he had problems and it wasn't straight forward when he fitted them. He and I have discussed a design floor that we discovered together with the shape of the grommets which he can share if he doesn't mind
regards
Jerome
Last edit: 25 Sep 2020 15:09 by AuburnNut.

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  • Curt Schulze
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10 Sep 2020 13:17 #40937 by Curt Schulze
When you receive MM's products, please post your opinion of the quality and fit.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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10 Sep 2020 12:27 #40936 by AuburnNut
Thanks Curt. A friend of mine sent me a screen image of the Metro Moulded Parts website and they quote the size of the front and rear bumpers. I attach that for reference. Thanks again to everybody who has contributed to this discussion. Regards Jerome

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09 Sep 2020 21:47 #40933 by Curt Schulze
Fronts are larger than rears.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt
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09 Sep 2020 20:08 #40932 by AuburnNut
OK Fronts are for the front, and rears are for the rear, presumably because they are different sizes. That corresponds with mine. I have 2 sets, a smaller set that I believe is for the front, and a larger set that I believe if for the back......so once again.....are the rears larger than the fronts....that's what I need to know and would be very helpful...thanks Curt

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09 Sep 2020 19:10 #40931 by Curt Schulze
Fronts are front only. They do NOT work on either side, and do not interchange with rears.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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09 Sep 2020 17:54 #40930 by AuburnNut
Thanks Curt for sharing your opinion. I along with (I'm sure) all other members reading this appreciate your comment.
I have one other question for you if you don't mind.
I believe the size of the rubber grommets between the front and back vary in size (at least mine do). Do the larger grommets fit on the back of the car?

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09 Sep 2020 17:31 #40929 by Curt Schulze
If I were judging, I would not deduct points for placement of the rear bumper grommet installed either way. There are many other things to look at that were consistent.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt
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09 Sep 2020 15:44 #40925 by AuburnNut
Curt. Thanks for telling me about the white steering wheel as an option. I appreciate your expertise and as always, learn from you.

Are you of the opinion that the placement of the rubber grommets in the rear could have the pointy bit placed either way, and that original Auburn 851/852 Speedsters were delivered with placement both ways?

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09 Sep 2020 12:59 #40923 by Curt Schulze
The frame rails were not always the same length .
White steering wheels were an option, P/N F10445

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt
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09 Sep 2020 03:56 #40919 by mikespeed35
You must take something else into consideration when fitting these grommets. The holes in the fender you are trying to cover up were all hand cut and may not have been cut the same. Mine do not match from one fender to the other. I'm sure they would place the grommet to cover the hole possibly requiring a different placement of the grommet from one car to the next. So I'm not sure you can say one way is correct and another is not .
CORDiallyMike

Mike Huffman
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08 Sep 2020 22:18 #40915 by AuburnNut
Gary
Excellent comments. I agree that the car showing Robert Donat has a number of modifications (white steering wheel and additional rear spare tire). I do believe that changing the rubber grommets on the Robert Donat car is unlikely to be one of them unless the car was in a rear accident.....so its an interesting photo to see and another part of the puzzle. I am yet to see an early photo showing the rubber bumper arm grommets with the pointy bit at the top closest to the center of the car. That is not to say they don't exist, but hopefully other club members will contribute here.

Kind regards J

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08 Sep 2020 21:53 #40914 by 1748 S
Nice picture with the spare tire but... Would this mount have been factory installed or dealer aftermarket? If aftermarket then one may want to see more factory original cars. At this point I do not think the factory would be switching mid assembly line installation of these bumper grommets. I'm not even close to being an authority on the Auburn cars.


Gary Parsons
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08 Sep 2020 21:15 #40911 by AuburnNut
Well here is another early photo of a speedster that shows the pointy bit towards the outside of the car. It is from the ACD online library and shows 1930's movie star Robert Donat. If you have early photos of 851 or 852 speedsters that show the rear of the car, and the positioning of the rear rubber bumper arm grommets that would be great to see. Obviously various members of the club have formed opinions. I think it will be great to see what various early period photos show us. It may be there is variation in cars....where some are done with the pointy bit outwards (most common at this stage), and some cars have the pointy bit closest to the center of the car. Lets see various photos to see what they tell us.
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08 Sep 2020 18:18 #40910 by johnmereness
Yes, I saw the picture of your (Curt's) car in the photo mix and realize all the research that has gone it it - it really is one of the most nut and bolt / detail correct speedsters on the globe.

JMM

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08 Sep 2020 18:11 #40909 by Curt Schulze
John, I would say that is true with everything BUT speedsters. That grey / green one in the driveway is mine.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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07 Sep 2020 20:14 #40895 by johnmereness
The factory was pretty nut and bolt consistent - they may have been a small manufacture but they were pretty innovative and had mass production and .... on the brain.

I would go with the 1942 photos.

JMM
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07 Sep 2020 18:41 #40894 by AuburnNut
xjn001, re your comment, yes I do believe most cars were typically assembled the same way. I have owned quite a few rare RR and Bentley handmade coachbuilt cars and they certainly were all assembled the same way on common components even though the total production was under 50 cars. Placing a rubber grommet a particular way would not be a difficult thing to do. It creates a very different look if it is fitted one way or another. That being said, it's certainly possible that Auburn workers did whatever they wanted in the 2 years prior to dissolution of the company given production wound up in 1937. I don't know the company's history well enough to know if that's true. Anyway, I'm interested in opinions from the clubs experts - not an unreasonable thing to ask. If the common consensus is that it doesn't matter.....then that's absolutely fine.

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07 Sep 2020 18:22 #40893 by xjn001
Do you believe every Auburn Speedster came from the factory exactly the same ? I just think at the time (1935-36) Auburn workers were pressed to build these cars as fast as possible, Perhaps some left the assembly floor not quite the same. That grommet seems to fit both ways.

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07 Sep 2020 16:27 - 07 Sep 2020 21:15 #40892 by AuburnNut
Thanks Gary. Yes there are reproduction grommets. The most common current supplier I know of is Metro Moulded Parts, but their rubber base which glues to the car body appears to be too big in my opinion. Anyway, my grommets are probably from the 1970's and are smaller than the Metro Moulded Parts grommets which have been fitted to the red car in the previous post. Regardless of the size of the grommet, the pointy part at the top of the grommet must point either toward the center of the car or toward the outside edge of the car.......that is the question as we both know.

Re the positioning of the grommet, I am inclined to go with the positioning as shown in 1942 picture (with pointy bit closest to outside of the car), but I hesitate because the sage green car I referenced above (alongside the red car) is owned by fellow ACD club member Curt Shultze, and he is someone that is a recognized expert and someone I have a lot of respect for as an authority on these vehicles, and he has it with the pointy part towards the center of the car......that's why I hesitate, and am asking the question.

Placing these grommets involves gluing them against the paintwork.....I do not want to make a mistake as I will ruin the paint if I need to correct it. I have seen some cars put screws into them to hold them against the paint......looks awful and of course is not original
Last edit: 07 Sep 2020 21:15 by AuburnNut.

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07 Sep 2020 15:52 #40891 by 1748 S
Its great to see you are determined to do it right the first time. Personally I would go with the early 1942 picture but... I also noticed the pics shows several different reproduction grommets.


Gary Parsons
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07 Sep 2020 13:21 - 07 Sep 2020 14:07 #40890 by AuburnNut
So here is a photo which was posted on this same forum by johnmereness, from original photos taken in 1942 (thanks so much John, they are incredible photos). It shows the pointy bit (at the top of the rubber grommet) closest to the outside of the car. So what placement is correct? Gurus in the club.....I'd certainly appreciate your opinion.....that being said, I'd love to see early photographic evidence to support your opinion. This photo from 1942 certainly appears to be supporting the placement of the pointy bit toward the outside of the car. Many many thanks Jerome
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Last edit: 07 Sep 2020 14:07 by AuburnNut.

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07 Sep 2020 13:17 - 07 Sep 2020 14:04 #40889 by AuburnNut
In contrast, here are another couple of cars where the pointy part of the top of the rubber grommet faces toward the center of the car. So what is right? I realize that original speedsters can be restored and have their reassembly done incorrectly, so its certainly possible that the 4 original cars I quoted above in earlier post, were fitted incorrectly after restoration. This leads me to considering looking at early original photos of auburn 851/852 cars.......preferably factory photos.....but I don't really have any. I do however have a photo from this forum, from the early 1940's which is a reference....see next post

regards Jerome
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Last edit: 07 Sep 2020 14:04 by AuburnNut.

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07 Sep 2020 13:09 - 07 Sep 2020 14:03 #40888 by AuburnNut
here are 4 original cars that have relatively recently been for sale, and are all with the pointy bit of the rubber closest to the outside of the car. This covers cars 32573E, 33168E, 33175E, 33219E. Regards Jerome
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Last edit: 07 Sep 2020 14:03 by AuburnNut.

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07 Sep 2020 13:02 - 07 Sep 2020 21:13 #40887 by AuburnNut
I am looking for help from club experts as to the correct fitment of the rear rubber bumper arm grommets on 851/852 speedsters. The grommet itself is asymmetrical at the top with a pointy bit. My question concerns whether the pointy bit of the rubber should be closest to the inside of the car, or should it be closest to the outside of the car. I have been collecting photos of quite a few supposedly original cars, and they appear to be fitted in two opposing ways. Sometimes the pointy bit is closest to the outside of the car (the rear fender), while other times the pointy bit is closest to the center of the car. I will attach some photos to demonstrate what I mean. Regards Jerome
Last edit: 07 Sep 2020 21:13 by AuburnNut.

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