Advice on buying #2

I get stirred up at auctions and tend to pay too much. Well I figure I just bought in too soon. Too bad you didn't get her, hopefully someone on here did. Maybe, if this covid stays on a rampage, things will depreciate some. I know I'm not buying anything not needed, nothing. Not even a new belt if baler twine will suffice.

It just came off the truck and it's beautiful! Not 100 points, but close enough for me. Thank you all for your replies.

Don't forget the shill bidders.

Congratulations on the Phaeton purchase - they are lovely cars

You have to be careful with auction estimates as they often have a hidden component: It takes two plus to Tango at an auction. If you put the estimate up too high it discourages and as a result there is fewer in the bidding competition. Basically, if one person shows up for an auction for X car then they either make the opening bid or car just sits. The goal is to get as many people playing off of each other as possible hoping they all have fallen in love with it and bidding higher along with your peers doing the same thing (which sometimes works and sometimes does not - aka in your case you bowed out). Anyway, you always have to decide where you are going to be and it has very little to do with the auction estimate. I was a little surprised at value upon sale as car is very much a "bitsa", but sounded to have an authentic body matched to being well done so was not going to go "low" by any means. As to other fish in the sea - well there are not many in this case so you may have to focus on some other V-12, Eight, Boattail, Phaeton, Cabriolet, or ...

Also, sort of like this: A fellow called me wanting a 1935 or 1936 Packard Twelve/12 Convertible Sedan. I said your lucky day as I have a client with a very nice original that you may upgrade or just enjoy using it as is for 125K and I can wrap it up and ship it your way. His reply was he wanted an unrestored one to restore and he would just get one cheaper. Well, nice thought, but there are like 10 of them on the globe - he will have to find something else as no supply and of those 10 most were restored a long time ago (aka most exceed 125K with most around 200K + or - and very restored). I suppose he can call all the Twelve/12 owners and convertible sedan owners in CCCA and Packard Club, but doubt they have any secrets. And if one goes up for sale unrestored it is not going to go cheap regardless - unless someone tries to steal it way from someone unsuspecting/uneducated on what it is but again a true needle in a haystack. My point is when you get to things where there are one or close to none/zero/0 then market tends to be somewhat a loose cannon.

Ah, I was willing to sell the family cow, but the car still went for too much. RM estimated $200-250, but their rep, after driving it, thought it may go for much less. Final bid was $300,000. That's what it looked like it was worth. Thanks much for asking. (I did buy a '31 phaeton earlier, however)

Get your car?

Hello You are welcome to private message me for more details on this car. Randy Ema

Thank you. I spoke with an RM rep that I'd worked with at a previous auction. He had just driven the car and given me a candid report as to its drivability and cosmetics as well as many detail photos. Although I haven't purchased from them, they've all been very professional and helpful in my search since March. Overall report is that it's an older restoration with some age and miles apparent.

Hi CT
Private message me your phone number and I'll give you a call re Salon vs Custom speedsters.
Pete Kelly 52 or 53 year ACD member

I believe their "Collection Manager" is Jeff Orwig - he is active on Facebook and posted on August 19th that they were sending this car to Auction - perhaps he is familiar with its build.

Also, there should be a detailed report available via RM Auctions (much more so than the auction brochure.)

Randy Ema may be able to help.

And Frank Cek restored one of the few Authentic Salon 12 Boattails.

Hi and thanks. The description states this is not originally a Speedster and therefore would not have a Speedster frame. The Salon fenders are cut higher and wider; these are sedan fenders.
I know this could never be a Concours winner, but I'm looking for a beautiful car I can drive and enjoy; I just don't want to pay more than it's worth.
Any other comments would definitely be welcome.

Question: I am certainly not an expert on 12's, but my understanding is that a Salon 12 has different frame and front axle than a Custom 12 (though assume rear axle is the same). The fenders are proper Salon 12 with the chrome/stainless beaded edge (or at least appear to be) as well as the rest of its salon equipment - what you are trying to say is that the undercarriage is that of a Custom ?

Phrased another way: it would have been a more authentic car done as a Custom as that is what its undercarriage is ?

Addition:
Having had in an Estate/bankruptcy a fairly well known 1932 Custom 12 Boattail (a 12 Custom Sedan that had an 8 Boattail body on it), I was always told they "did it right", but I recall standing next to Frank Cek regarding that a Salon chassis/suspension is a unique beast and you cannot get to an authentic Salon car from a Custom.

I am not sure it works like that as to fenders - front fenders to a Salon 12 Sedan verses a Salon 12 Speedster are most likely same or only slightly modified and if so question would be if those modifications were done. Obviously, the rear fenders would have to be heavily modified as a sedan fender is a mile difference from a Boattail.

On 1935 and 1936 the frames are modified for Speedster, but they are still a core 35/36 - so question would be if they carried out that modification properly. And, assume the same question applies to an earlier car.

I hope this helps to getting to the right questions and answers.

Sorry for a second post, but I need more help, please.
A '33 Speedster will be auctioned next week by RMSothebys in Auburn. I know it's not numbers-matching, not originally a Salon (wrong fenders), and a bit of a Frankenstein with the AL block, but it's also likely to sell for less than half of an original 12 Speedster.
My question is: Does this configuration reduce its value even more than that? It may be the only 12 Speedster (my dream car) I can actually afford, but I don't want to make a big mistake.
Thanks much.