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Looking for bits of wisdom towards purchase of 2nd Gen/Replica

  • Gregb1954
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13 Apr 2019 00:26 - 13 Apr 2019 23:27 #37002 by Gregb1954
I second the suggestion to contact Felix DeGeyter. He is a wonderful gent and can really offer some help. He gave me several great leads on Glenn Pray cars a couple of years ago. I also spent some time with him at last year's ACD Festival in Auburn, IN. The cars I visited were all in excellent condition and ready to enjoy. The Glenn Pray's I saw (none were the early models mentioned above) were in the $60's, 80's, and 90's.

I ended up buying a Speedster Motorcars that was made in 2011. They are worth looking at and have been selling in the $80's to 90's. I would only recommend the later Speedsters as they had refined the car quite nicely. It is also important to understand what is most important to you. For example, I thought I wanted a 4 seater until I realized they really change the look of the original dimensions. Some are stretched, and some have a shortened boattail. Legroom seemed very tight. You really need to drive the candidates as things like feel of the pedals, steering, ride, appearance, etc. can be not to your preference. I liked the Speedster except I changed all 4 of the coil/over springs to soften the ride and allow for ride firmness adjustment. Now the car rides and drives great.

Have fun on the hunt!
Last edit: 13 Apr 2019 23:27 by Gregb1954.

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  • MICHAEL S SMITH
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12 Apr 2019 01:36 #36996 by MICHAEL S SMITH
As I recall they built app. 15-17 late bodies(35-36) and also cast around 25 mid year (31-34) speedster bodies virtually all of those ended up on stock drive trains, got a sedan? buy the body all fenders hood etc bolt up as original and you're driving a speedster.

MICHAEL S SMITH ACD LIFE MEMBER #40
851 auburn phaeton
851 auburn sedan
810 cord westchester
812 cord phaeton(ex Tressler Swiss)
812 cord custom s/c beverly
812 cord s/c cabriolet
812 cord s/c beverly
80 866 speedster (pray factory built)

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  • Jonathan Richards
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12 Apr 2019 01:14 #36995 by Jonathan Richards
It appears that Doug Pray is moderate in his valuation for the three categories. I have always found Doug and Felix DeGeyter ( Glenn Pray's #1 associate from the early days of the Pickle Factory ) to be very business like but fair. Perhaps they can help you locate and purchase one of the early Pray replicars. Good luck in your search, Jack Richards.

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  • AuburnNut
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12 Apr 2019 01:01 #36994 by AuburnNut
Greg,
I contacted Doug Pray (at your suggestion) and he was kind enough to answer my question to him which was....
“I’m told on the ACD club forum that there are about 17 early Glenn Pray cars which used lots of original parts. Could you tell me typically what price those cars sell for on the market. Just looking for a really rough ballpark. I know it always depends on condition”
...and Doug’s reply was.....
A GP Cord @35k
A Speedster @85k
A dual cowl @100k

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  • MICHAEL S SMITH
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11 Apr 2019 22:41 #36992 by MICHAEL S SMITH
Another unusual speedster I know of was one built by Bob Adams son of Wisconsin (forgive my failing memory for names), he took an original Auburn complete and correct supercharged frame running gear interior the car was perfect except he used an original metal superchargegh schoold hood so it sat to low as body allowed for fiberglass hoods much thicker profile. it sold to the Lincoln dealer in Mansfield Ohio back when the auction was still at the high school, checked it out 10 years ago he still had car but was not to realistic on current value ( he saw an original sell at auction for 475k so his was the same), so keep the faith there are a lot of cars still out there.

MICHAEL S SMITH ACD LIFE MEMBER #40
851 auburn phaeton
851 auburn sedan
810 cord westchester
812 cord phaeton(ex Tressler Swiss)
812 cord custom s/c beverly
812 cord s/c cabriolet
812 cord s/c beverly
80 866 speedster (pray factory built)

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  • MICHAEL S SMITH
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11 Apr 2019 22:18 #36991 by MICHAEL S SMITH
I spoke to Glenn shortly before his passing and he told me he still had the original molds which were exact copies basically, correct rear boat tail dimensions etc. The Irskin?( forgve spelling ) brothers built a pair with all original interior,instrumentation etc. virtually indistinguishable from original unless you drop to look at front axle (as I recall they had late model ford power. to me these will always be the king of the speedster replicas.

MICHAEL S SMITH ACD LIFE MEMBER #40
851 auburn phaeton
851 auburn sedan
810 cord westchester
812 cord phaeton(ex Tressler Swiss)
812 cord custom s/c beverly
812 cord s/c cabriolet
812 cord s/c beverly
80 866 speedster (pray factory built)

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  • AuburnNut
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11 Apr 2019 22:11 #36990 by AuburnNut
Curt. I assume this was one of Glenn’s early cars. Looks like the cylinder head was off

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  • Curt Schulze
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11 Apr 2019 21:54 #36989 by Curt Schulze
The black and silver car was on eBay about 12 years ago I missed it by a grand
It sold for around 30 (not running) and went to France.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt
The following user(s) said Thank You: Jonathan Richards

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  • Curt Schulze
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11 Apr 2019 19:43 #36987 by Curt Schulze

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt
The following user(s) said Thank You: 1748 S

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  • 1748 S
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11 Apr 2019 16:40 #36986 by 1748 S
Doug is Glenn's son. The generation 3 cars will be only 7 or 8 built. They are to be steel bodies with original running gear but "some modern" driving benefits are to be Incorporated for a better ride.

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  • Gregb1954
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11 Apr 2019 15:33 - 11 Apr 2019 23:03 #36985 by Gregb1954
PS: Here's a link to get you on the waiting list for the Generation 3. They were featured on American Pickers recently.
www.acdfactory.com/g3superchargedauburnspeedster.html
Last edit: 11 Apr 2019 23:03 by Gregb1954.

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  • Gregb1954
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11 Apr 2019 15:30 #36984 by Gregb1954
You can reach out to Doug Pray, who I believe is the son of Glenn, at the ACD Factory in Broken Arrow for more information on these cars and their availability. Their email is [email protected], phone is 9182513161, website is www.acdfactory.com/ . They are building some new ones to the original specs including the engine. They are something like $750k.

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  • AuburnNut
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11 Apr 2019 12:01 #36982 by AuburnNut
Thanks Curt for the extra detail on these early Pray cars and their limited production. Probably like finding a needle in a haystack. Do you have any general ballpark price that you have seen these rare early Pray cars sell for? Are we talking $100k to $200k?

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  • Curt Schulze
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11 Apr 2019 11:50 #36981 by Curt Schulze
The first 17 or so of the Glen Pray speedsters were equipped with original Auburn straight eight engines with original super chargers and frames as well. They were sold mostly as kits. No two were alike as they ran out of parts . It wasn't until later, when they ran out of frames etc. that the bodies were modified to accommodate the Ford chassis rear springs. The early Glen Pray cars are the ones to look for. They are real foolers.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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  • AuburnNut
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11 Apr 2019 03:43 - 22 Mar 2021 13:49 #36980 by AuburnNut
Jivanty. Regarding various Speedsters available, I think it’s difficult to definitively say one builder is better than others. Personal preference will guide your choice to a large extent, along with build quality and any budgetary considerations you may have. Under Personal Preferences you can consider....
1) Design differences of one speedster vs another and decide what’s important to you.
A) MECHANICALS: choose either a modern fuel injected engine and 4 speed transmission or whether you are happy to have an older style engine with 3 speed transmission. Of course you can buy a car with older mechanicals and upgrade to something more modern if you are up for a project
B) BODY FEATURES: choose from a regular 2 seater style (most common) or a 4 seater style (harder to find). Decide if you like a certain number of exhausts exiting the hood area. Glenn Pray proponents appear to get excited about the fact that the stainless exhausts in those cars contain real exhaust pipes (similar to the original Auburn) whereas most other manufacturers have non functional stainless exhausts. I don’t really care about that feature, but rather it always annoys me to see later 2nd gen Glenn Pray cars with only 2 exhausts exiting the hood area, versus the original cars which had 4 exhausts. I think 2 exhausts looks really weird. Most other manufacturers have 4 exhausts, but 4 on each side of the car. The original Auburn only has 4 exhausts exiting the driver side of the car. I like the balance of 4 exhausts on each side, so it doesn’t worry me. Another feature on Glenn Pray cars that I personally don’t like is the additional body panel that sits next to the rear wheel arches. It accommodates the higher chassis rail design that Pray engineered around the rear wheels. No other manufacturer used this approach to my knowledge, and it is in my opinion a significant negative design departure by Pray compared to the original Gordon Buehrig design of the Auburn Speedster. It is the principal reason I have chosen not to have a late model Glenn Pray car. That being said, they are still great cars. In fact Glenn’s very rare early replicas used a number of original Auburn parts....but are very rare, and very hard to find. The majority of a Glenn Pray cars are the later standard design my comments reflect.
Another major difference in body features concerns how the hood operates. An original Auburn Speedster has two hood leaves, and it pivots in the Centre. Some replicas have a single large hood which does not pivot in the Centre (like the Pray car’s) but rather on the side of the car. I like it pivoting in the Centre. It makes the body look more authentic to me.
Another Body difference concerns how the convertible top flap looks. Some replicas have these that are too large in my opinion, and differ from the original.
Another body design feature which differs concerns the fuel cap style and location. The original car has a fuel cap on the passenger side, near to the rear passenger side tail light. Some replicas have them located on the wrong side (driver side) while others have them incorrectly located on the vertical surface of the rear Boattail section.
There are other differences, but this note is getting too long. At some point I plan to write an article showing the differences between the various manufacturers when compared to the original.
Anyway, I chose an Elegant Motors speedster. I like their design and attention to detail.
Hope this helps. Regards Jerome
Last edit: 22 Mar 2021 13:49 by AuburnNut.

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  • Gregb1954
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09 Apr 2019 01:42 #36970 by Gregb1954
Hi jivanty. The Glenn Pray's are wonderful in they have been recognized as being built as an official 2nd gen. They are solid cars with authentic exhaust routed through the pipes exiting the engine compartment. They attention to original detail is wonderful. They are sought after and hold their value. With that said I looked at a California Custom and Speedster Motor Cars. We ended up buying a Speedster as we were impressed with the modern drive train, actually has a supercharger, and a purpose-built chassis with 4 wheel disc brakes. The suspension was too firm for us so we changed out the coil-over springs and now it rides smoother. They appear to be the most expensive right now. Most important thing is to go where the car is and check it out BEFORE buying. Remember that many of these were built in the 70's and 80's and are 40+ years old. Our Speedster was built in 2011. Good luck, they are beauties, including the California's and probably the Elegant Motors too!!!

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  • Gregb1954
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04 Sep 2018 03:31 #35332 by Gregb1954
We purchased a Speedster Motorcars Boattail last April, and drove it to the Festival this year from Carmel, Indiana. It is about a 3 hour drive on country roads. Lots of bug splatters! We had a great time parked next to 16 other 2nd gen's and made some great, new friends! So happy to be a part of the club and being around such beautiful cars.
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  • LeifHemy
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08 Aug 2017 01:27 #33388 by LeifHemy

Curt Schulze wrote: There are a few on eBay right now. Give me a call, I am in the directory.


It's great to know that we have various contacts to ask from. I might give this a try as well. :)

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  • Curt Schulze
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05 Mar 2017 21:24 #32621 by Curt Schulze
Yes, being a member and deriving the benefits there of is key. Post here when you join, I'll send you a PM with my contact info.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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  • Jonathan Richards
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05 Mar 2017 19:56 #32620 by Jonathan Richards
Gregb1954 , Curt Schulze is an ACD Club member from Wisconsin and his phone is Area Code 712 / 262-3183. I hope you have seen my comment above on 3-3-2017 in response to your inquiry. Good luck in your search for a 2nd Generation Auburn.

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  • Gregb1954
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05 Mar 2017 19:26 #32619 by Gregb1954
Thank you for reaching out to help me in our quest to get a beautiful car - that we can afford!!! I will call the numbers (that were drilled into my head!!!). Curt, I looked for the directory to find your number but could not find it. Probably because I am not a member - yet???

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  • Jonathan Richards
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03 Mar 2017 02:04 - 08 Aug 2017 13:49 #32589 by Jonathan Richards
Because the website indicates you are a User rather than a n ACD Club member I am appending a Private Message I composed to you , which you probably can't access.
If I were you I would speak with Felix DeGeyter at Auburn Cord Duesenberg Compay at Broken Arrow , Oklahoma where the Glenn Pray machines were originally conceived and built. Felix was Glenn's right hand man and is very knowledgeable on this subject. Felix's E-mail is [email protected] and his cell phone is (918) 812-4070. Good luck in your search . Jonathan Richards #1080 @ Chesterfield, MO / My cell Phone is Area 712/621-1854
Last edit: 08 Aug 2017 13:49 by Joe Holderman. Reason: paste error

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  • Curt Schulze
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02 Mar 2017 12:41 #32582 by Curt Schulze
There are a few on eBay right now. Give me a call, I am in the directory.

The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Be of Good Cheer
Curt

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  • Gregb1954
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02 Mar 2017 03:18 #32581 by Gregb1954
Hello folks. We just started looking for a replica Auburn and have seen 3 thus far. I understand that the Glenn Pray cars are considered the top dog, but would like to know what other things I should know or be aware of. This could include like manufacturers that are good, or not so good. Thank you in advance!

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