lawsuit about ownership of a (high price) classic

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25 Jun 2012 01:04 #23092 by Tom_Parkinson
Tom_Parkinson replied the topic:
Hi,

1st thought: Perhaps there is a need for a title-insurance industry in our hobby.

2nd thought: if I had bought a multi-million dollar car knowing that the title was being challenged in a foreign country, I sure as heck would not ship the car to anywhere where that foreign country has jurisdiction!

3rd thought: this melodrama may instigate a practice of requirement of a Seller's Bond to back up title of high-dollar cars.

--Tom

With brakes, two cylinders are better than one.

Editor-in-Chief, The Hardtop News Magazine, the Journal of the Michiana Dunes Region, Lambda Car Club International

See pix of 1509A here: http://mbcurl.me/YCSE

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25 Jun 2012 10:59 #23093 by alsancle
alsancle replied the topic:
I'm thinking the buyer was not aware of the title issues. I can't imagine he would bring the car to Germany if he knew that. You would want to fight the battle in a local court so if you knew of the issues I imagine you would let them file in your home country.

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30 Jan 2013 11:38 #24412 by landmark
landmark replied the topic:
Hello,

according to several german newspaper-articles, in the lawsuit about the ownership of that car, the court has proposed a compromise agreement between the Prym heirs and Mr. van Haren.

The court proposed that the car will be sold (as planed before by Mr. van Haren) for an estimated price of 4 - 5 million Euro ($ 5.4-6.7 million). One third of the amount will go to the Prym heirs and two third to Mr. van Haren.

It is today not written if the two parties would accept the proposed deal.

Here are two links to newspaper-articles about that:

http://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/articl ... timer.html

http://www.manager-magazin.de/lifestyle ... 38,00.html


Cheers

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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31 Jan 2013 00:52 #24416 by Mike Brady
Mike Brady replied the topic:
Matt,

Did the court consider that the car might only bring a fraction of that estimate given the ownership issues. If there is any possibility that the German court ruling can be appealed by another court, this case could be far from over.

In any case, please continue to keep us posted.

Thanks

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31 Jan 2013 21:10 #24420 by silverghost
silverghost replied the topic:
There have been a number of similar such cases in reverse where several rare autos were spirited illegally out of the United States that have been in international litigation over true rightful ownership.

One was an unrestored Rolls~Royce Picadilly roadster that was illegally sold by a restorer who was acually being paid to restore this car or it's owner . Instead the restorer sold the auto to someone in the Chicago area.
This restorer then closed down his shop and disappeared without a trace and was later said to now be long deceased. The new Chicago collector later sold the still unrestored car to a Swiss collector in Europe who completely restored the car to a very high standard at a very high restoration cost.
This "owner" then toured & showed the car at various car events in europe.
Later the original titled real US owner found the car listed on the internet and filed suit for it's rightful return to him in the US.

Also~
A very rare racing Ferarri, with great origial race history, was stolen from a hoarder's outdoor US property and illegally spirited away to europe.
It was then totally restored there.
Now~a vey valuable car indeed.
The late hoarder's estate heir later finally located the fully restored car in europe and attempted legally in court to have it returned to her the rightful owner.

These two cases were reported some years ago~
I have never heard any updates as to how both these international stolen car, & disputed ownrship situations, eventually ever worked-out ? ?

Does anyone here know what the eventual resolution was to both these disputed iternational ownership claims on supposedly stolen, and now very valuable restored cars ? ?
Did the original US owners get their stolen cars back from the european courts & the european "Owners" who restored them ? ?

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. BRAD HUNTER Huntingdon Valley Pa/Ocean City NJ 215 947 4676 Engineer & RE Developer Brass & Classic Auto, Antique Boat, Mechanical Automatic Music Machine, & Jukebox Collector

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31 Mar 2013 13:46 #24902 by landmark
landmark replied the topic:

landmark wrote: Hello,

according to several german newspaper-articles, in the lawsuit about the ownership of that car, the court has proposed a compromise agreement between the Prym heirs and Mr. van Haren.

The court proposed that the car will be sold (as planed before by Mr. van Haren) for an estimated price of 4 - 5 million Euro ($ 5.4-6.7 million). One third of the amount will go to the Prym heirs and two third to Mr. van Haren.

It is today not written if the two parties would accept the proposed deal.

Here are two links to newspaper-articles about that:

http://www.abendblatt.de/hamburg/articl ... timer.html

http://www.manager-magazin.de/lifestyle ... 38,00.html


Cheers

Matt



Hello,

according to an article in the oldtimer magazine "Oldtimer Markt", the lawsuit about the ownership of that car is far from over, indeed.

A little update:

1. The responsible court of last resort (Oberlandesgericht Hamburg) declared the confiscation by German authorities for lawful.

2. The heirs of Mr. Prym and the "buyer" Mr. van Haren aswell deny a compromise agreement (which was proposed by the court).

As the result of the compromise-denial, the lawsuit goes on and it is not sure that a verdict will be done in 2013.


Happy Eastern!

Matt

Was man besonders gerne tut,
ist selten ganz besonders gut

Wilhelm Busch

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